Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy

[Marymog]

Yes, Justin the first politician christian theologian. Politicians could never be trusted, as we see in Justin's classical case.

So when the historical record proves you wrong your response is it can't be trusted? Wow.....I really don't know what to say

ONCE AGAIN: Can you please provide ANY proof that Christians in the first 100 years of Christianity practiced Saturday church services?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

“The Lord’s Day” in Ignatius (9:1) presupposes the Sabbath (Seventh Day) as it should be for Christians, namely, “according to living the Lord’s Life”, as “a Sabbath-living” that is “according to Christ Jesus” (8:2) – a “living” “wherein also our life sprang up through Him and His death”. Ignatius found the Christians were “living” “according to Judaism” (8:1) and “according to a Sabbathising” void of “Christ Jesus” and void of that “living according to the Lord’s Life” (9:1).
“The Lord’s Day” in Ignatius (9:1) does not suggest the First Day of the week / Sunday; if Ignatius were to write today he would have called Sunday observance a “Sabbathising” void of “Christ Jesus” and a “Judaism”, void of “the Lord’s Life”.

Dear friend,

I quoted Ignatius. Who are you quoting?

Curious Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

Where, in which Scriptures, does one actually see and read such changes MADE?

i guess the record of coercing ppl to observe Sunday is still available, took like 100 years and a lot of deaths to get it installed, is what i read?

"Constantine named himself Bishop of the Catholic Church and enacted the first civil law regarding Sunday observance in A.D. 321.
'On the venerable day of the sun let the magistrate and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however...'"

 

[bbyrd009]

ONCE AGAIN: Can you please provide ANY proof that Christians in the first 100 years of Christianity practiced Saturday church services?

"In the New Testament, the seventh day of the week is called the Sabbath; it is mentioned 58 times. The first day of the week is mentioned eight times. It is simply called the first day of the week, and it is always differentiated from the Sabbath. This in itself is evidence for the continued validity of the seventh-day Sabbath.

The gospel writers record Jesus and the apostles going to the synagogue on Sabbath as their “custom” (Luke 4:16 ). Jesus said, “I have kept My Father’s commandments” (John 15:10). The women who went to anoint His body after his death “rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment” (Luke 23:56). Nearly all of the incidents reported of the apostles’ preaching occurred on the seventh-day Sabbath. Of all the accusations the Jews made against the apostles, never once did they accuse the apostles of breaking the Sabbath."

 

[Marymog]

"In the New Testament, the seventh day of the week is called the Sabbath; it is mentioned 58 times. The first day of the week is mentioned eight times. It is simply called the first day of the week, and it is always differentiated from the Sabbath. This in itself is evidence for the continued validity of the seventh-day Sabbath.

The gospel writers record Jesus and the apostles going to the synagogue on Sabbath as their “custom” (Luke 4:16 ). Jesus said, “I have kept My Father’s commandments” (John 15:10). The women who went to anoint His body after his death “rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment” (Luke 23:56). Nearly all of the incidents reported of the apostles’ preaching occurred on the seventh-day Sabbath. Of all the accusations the Jews made against the apostles, never once did they accuse the apostles of breaking the Sabbath."

Thank you bbyrd,

I know you quoted someone else and the above quote is not technically not your words HOWEVER you now own them. By saying the Apostles were never accused of breaking the Sabbath is a bit dishonest. Have your read scripture? Did you not read Luke 6:1-2? Do your own research instead of relying on someone else. When you quote someone else without researching what they said it makes YOU look dishonest.

Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 9:14-16).

Jesus did not lie in John 15. He kept the commandments; he was a good Jew. The Jewish women who anointed His body were being good JEWS; they rested on the Sabbath. After Jesus rose from the dead they were no longer Jews; they were Christians. As CHRISTIANS scripture tells us they practiced Sunday worship.

Love, Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath

ya, i guess the author there means in any case where the Apostles were acting on their own authority,
as they surely know about Jesus' "violation"

 

[bbyrd009]

scripture tells us they practiced Sunday worship.

i just don't think so anymore, used to forever though. i guess they worshipped all the time, so...
Strangely, it was in my quest to get over my catholicophobia that i discovered how Sunday worship was instituted.

Imo taking one day a week off is just a wholesome thing to do--taking Saturdays off is particularly hard, or i mean was at first, and i certainly understand why someone who works the usual 9-5 mon-fri arranges their week as they do. Funny to me how this discussion changes so radically depending upon which side of the planet one is on lol, the arg is even diff among Orthos in the Eastern hemisphere.

you no doubt seek to worship God seven days a week, just like me, even if i do not practice ritual worship, which to me is the important part. Now i won't lie, Sabbath worship brings benefits, but they take a while to manifest, and it forces a pretty uncomfortable change. Maybe i needed this change, that perhaps you do not need; i don't know.

 

[GodsGrace]

'We have to...'
We have to 'put aside', viz., 'sanctify' NOTHING! Nothing WHICH God not Himself sanctified and set aside "remaining for the People of God (as) keeping / resting of the Sabbath Day". Hebrews 4.
No thanks; God already provided for the People of God as far as the Sabbath is concerned by having raised Christ from the dead ON IT.
That's what the Sabbath Day meant and still means for God's 'service'.

Exodus 20:8
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."
NASB

So, yes, whether it be Saturday or Sunday is a different question, but God did command that we keep the Sabbath holy. KEEP it holy, not make it holy.
Did I say WE make it holy? God set aside this day for us. He set aside one day for rest, just like HE rested on the 7th day after all His work.

So on the Sabbath we have to rest and remember to keep it holy,,,set it aside for special service. Going to church, being with family and children, anything else that would please God.
Exodus 20:9-11
9“Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11“For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

 

[bbyrd009]

scripture tells us they practiced Sunday worship.

if this were the case, then i would expect that making it a law punishable by death would have been embraced by them whole-heartedly, see, when history tells us that that is not the case at all, but rather that many Christians were killed for not obeying the law, and it took like 100 years to finally get it "instituted."

i cannot find even a Catholic dispute of this history; not anywhere

 

[amadeus]

Hi Amadeus,

I love bible study . Lets quote the passage right before Romans 10:17. As you will see when we take it all into CONTEXT (instead of partially quoting scripture to make our argument look stronger) we see that having "ears to hear" does not mean one necessarily believes or understands what they hear: But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report? (Romans 10:17)

As you also know just because one hears does not mean one understands: There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures (2Peter3:16).

And when one doesn't understand scripture they can't give an answer to everyone who asks to give the reason for the hope that they have (1Peter3:15).

Bible study Mary

Respectfully Mary,
On several occasions I have sought to engage you in polite conversation, but you have always shown a greater interest in proving my errors and your correctness than in having a friendly discussion to help each other move closer to God.

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

When you have changed your attitude I might consider changing my mind.

Give God the glory!

 

[brakelite]

The Sabbath commandment is entirely different than the others. The other nine can be such as would be devised by any society as good moral principles by which to live. Even the first, "thou shalt have no other gods but me", whatever the god they are referring to, would encourage faithfulness. But even in Christian societies, we see those nine principles embodied in our laws and statutes and do not argue that they are good and right. (Despite the growing aversion to them in some quarters...particularly the seventh.)
However, the 4th commandment of the Sabbath is different. It is based not on a moral principle (the argument often used by those who do not choose to observe it) but solely on the authority of the Lawgiver. In rejecting the Sabbath commandment, we place ourselves under the authority of the one who changed it, and in so doing reject God. Simple really.
Of course, some will argue that the Lawgiver was only speaking to the Jews. In maintaining that, however, you are then placing yourself under the authority of the one who teaches that...that maybe someone else, or it may be you. You better have very good reasons for not allowing God to be your final authority.
The week, as a seven-day cycle is a 6000-year witness to the Sabbath. As God'sGrace said, we do not make the day holy...God has already done that...our responsibility is to keep it holy. That 6000-year witness will continue into eternity. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
God has not allowed a gap of 2000 years where one commandment becomes invalid then resumes its authority into eternity on the new earth.
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Exodus 20:8
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."
NASB

So, yes, whether it be Saturday or Sunday is a different question, but God did command that we keep the Sabbath holy. KEEP it holy, not make it holy.
Did I say WE make it holy? God set aside this day for us. He set aside one day for rest, just like HE rested on the 7th day after all His work.

So on the Sabbath we have to rest and remember to keep it holy,,,set it aside for special service. Going to church, being with family and children, anything else that would please God.
Exodus 20:9-11
9“Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11“For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

It is all meaningless, rose Christ not from the dead on the Sabbath, because nothing than Jesus' Resurrection is the Rest of God or the rest He gives or the reason for or the essence of or the People's rest, the Sabbath which God made to the end and for the reason of JESUS' RESURRECTION ON IT. No "blessed the Seventh Day", no "sanctified the Seventh Day", no "finished the Seventh Day", no "rested the Seventh Day", no "building the old waste places", no "breach repaired", no "paths restored", no "Sabbath called delight", no "delight in the LORD", no "ride upon the heights of the earth", no "trumpet or alarm", no "Athaliah killed", no "great and terrible DAY OF THE LORD", no "peace the city had", RAISED GOD NOT CHRIST "ON THE SABBATH DAY".

 

[gadar perets]

It is all meaningless, rose Christ not from the dead on the Sabbath, because nothing than Jesus' Resurrection is the Rest of God or the rest He gives or the reason for or the essence of or the People's rest, the Sabbath which God made to the end and for the reason of JESUS' RESURRECTION ON IT. No "blessed the Seventh Day", no "sanctified the Seventh Day", no "finished the Seventh Day", no "rested the Seventh Day", no "building the old waste places", no "breach repaired", no "paths restored", no "Sabbath called delight", no "delight in the LORD", no "ride upon the heights of the earth", no "trumpet or alarm", no "Athaliah killed", no "great and terrible DAY OF THE LORD", no "peace the city had", RAISED GOD NOT CHRIST "ON THE SABBATH DAY".

The only reason Yeshua rose from the dead on the first day of the week is because that is the day the wave sheaf offering fell that year to fulfill his resurrection (Leviticus 23:10-11). You err greatly by abolishing the holy Sabbath Day. Yes, Yeshua is our rest, but it is a spiritual rest he provides, NOT a physical rest. If he gives us physical rest, then we would not need to sleep anymore. However, physically sleeping is not enough. The Sabbath rest provides a physical rest that goes beyond physical sleep. Does this fictitious physical rest Yeshua provides pertain to animals as well or can we now work them 7 days a week? Anyone who works their animals or their servants 7 days a week lacks mercy and love.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The only reason Yeshua rose from the dead on the first day of the week is because that is the day the wave sheaf offering fell that year to fulfill his resurrection (Leviticus 23:10-11).

The only reason Jesus rose from the dead was, and ‘is’, that "by the Son, God, in these last days, on the day The Seventh Day FROM ALL, HIS, WORKS, RESTED", because the only reason “God on the day The Seventh Day from all, his, works, rested", was, and ‘is’, that Jesus rose from the dead, “ON” it!

So the only reason why God made the Sabbath a Commandment in the Ten Commandments for Israel, was, and still is, that He brought them up out of the land of darkness and Red Sea grave into the land He promised them to find rest in. Which is the the only and same reason, “IF JESUS GAVE THEM REST, (that) there for the People of God a Sabbath Day’s rest remains”.

"Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus and sought to slay Him because He had done these things ON THE SABBATH DAY, but Jesus answered them, My Father …on the Sabbath… hitherto works and I …on the Sabbath… hitherto work. Verily, verily I say unto you, The Son cannot do anything of Himself but all the things He works towards, He sees the FATHER do (work), for what works soever the Father does, THESE works the Son, LIKEWISE towards works… 21 For as the Father RAISES UP AND QUICKENS THE DEAD (JESUS from the dead), EVEN SO, THE SON QUICKENS…".

All these works of “RESTING UP AGAIN” the Son which “the Father as the Son towards WORKED”, were the works the Father and the Son “on the Sabbath TOGETHER worked”, and “on the Sabbath” CULMINATED in “the REST of God”, “by the Power of His Resurrection”.

Thus the day on which ‘the wave sheaf offering fell to fulfill his resurrection’ and which “the Son as the Father hitherto worked” was “the Sabbath--Day of the Lord” “AFTER the sabbath--great day of sabbath” in ‘that year’ and Jesus’ Last Passover Suffering “once for all”.

Not ‘on the first day of the week’, because that is not found in ‘Leviticus 23:10-11’ at all or anywhere else for that matter.

And now see the contradiction of your theory IN YOUR OWN STATEMENT:

The only reason Yeshua rose from the dead on the first day of the week is because that is the day the wave sheaf offering fell that year to fulfill his resurrection (Leviticus 23:10-11).

'on the first day of the week' is impossible 'the day that year' except by rare coincidence. But in principle, it mutually exclusive is an impossibility and contradiction.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You err greatly by abolishing the holy Sabbath Day.

Are you saying, I, 'abolish the holy Sabbath Day' -- holy Sabbath Day "OF THE LORD GOD", my, God?

Schucks, I thought I presented the only real Bible reason for believing "the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD", my, God, the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead ON IT!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

the 4th commandment of the Sabbath is different. It is based not on a moral principle (the argument often used by those who do not choose to observe it) but solely on the authority of the Lawgiver.

Based, 'not on a moral principle'? ... incomprehensible... sorry, for me, I mean.

What is a 'moral principle'? Not something the Father as well as the Son "hitherto worked" at "the exceeding greatness of the Power of God working in raising Christ from the dead, seating Him and crowning Him, resting Him up and enthroning Him at God's own right hand, His Heavenly Majesty"!? The ULTIMATE 'moral principle to observe the Sabbath ... solely on the authority of the Lawgiver'!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

So when the historical record proves you wrong your response is it can't be trusted? Wow.....I really don't know what to say

ONCE AGAIN: Can you please provide ANY proof that Christians in the first 100 years of Christianity practiced Saturday church services?

Curious Mary

To be honest, if you cannot read it in the New Testament 'historical record' yourself, no! Except, I must add, the New Testament never speaks of 'Saturday church services'.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Your first mistake is in quoting the Greek phrase. The Greek of Mark 15:6 reads, "Κατὰ δὲ ἑορτὴν", but you say it reads, "kata heortehn". Where is the Greek "δὲ" in your quote?
Second, you translate "kata" as "on". I searched through many translations and could not find one that uses "on". I could not even find a lexicon that gives "kata" the definition of "on".
Third, "Κατὰ δὲ ἑορτὴν" literally translate as "At but feast". Most translations add the word "that" to yield "But at that feast". They put the word "that" in italics to show it is not in the Greek text. Some add "every" instead of "that", but the fact of the matter is "every" is added by man and is not found in the Greek text.


What was an "established, 'Christian' practice"? Worshiping on the weekly Sabbath? If so, I agree. If you are calling the "FOREGOING Sabbath" the "First (Day) [Mian (Hemeran) of the week [sabbatou]", then I totally disagree.


I have no idea what you are trying to say here. 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 refers to a ONE TIME "commercial gathering" of goods for the starving saints in Jerusalem. It does NOT refer to a weekly "collection" where they passed the plate around. The "commercial gathering" of relief goods was "FOR the saints", not "FOR the church" so they can conduct weekly services on Sunday or undergo their buildings projects.

Really fantastic!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Hi,

Look up the definition of ceremony and you will see that keeping the Sabbath is a ceremonial law ALSO. Just because it is one does not mean it can not be another. It can be both Ceremonial and Positive.

Your welcome.

Mary

Sure! God bless

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

No sir. That was Christianity when the apostles walked the earth and it has been for 2,000 years. Not "nowadays" like you seem to believe.

I never said it wasn't a moral commandment. If I did, please quote me.

Mary

Sure! See, 'Christianity' for you nowadays! how it stands up for the 'Sunday' fiction.