Removal Theology not Replacement Theology

[CoreIssue]

Two houses of Israel? Israel is one house and Judah is one house.


Is. 8:14"Then He shall become a sanctuary; But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over, And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

And again the KJV.

• • Isaiah 8:14 New International Version (NIV)
  
  14
  He will be a holy place;
  for both Israel and Judah he will be
  a stone that causes people to stumble
  and a rock that makes them fall.
  And for the people of Jerusalem he will be
  a trap and a snare..

 

[Episkopos]

Another gigantic lie in Dispensationalism is that the words of Jesus do not apply to Gentiles. Again, this is owing to the divisive nature of the doctrine. This time dividing people from the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

And again the KJV.

• • Isaiah 8:14 New International Version (NIV)
  
  14
  He will be a holy place;
  for both Israel and Judah he will be
  a stone that causes people to stumble
  and a rock that makes them fall.
  And for the people of Jerusalem he will be
  a trap and a snare..

יד וְהָיָה, לְמִקְדָּשׁ; וּלְאֶבֶן נֶגֶף וּלְצוּר מִכְשׁוֹל לִשְׁנֵי בָתֵּי יִשְׂרָאֵל, לְפַח וּלְמוֹקֵשׁ--לְיוֹשֵׁב, יְרוּשָׁלִָם.

I am not going to play this game with you. You simply don't understand this issue enough. Read Ezekiel 37.

 

[Hidden In Him]

An emotional response. You are saying it is divisive to decry divisiveness....yet you don't make a single comment on what I posted.

Are you just attached emotionally to this doctrine...or is there any substance to it?

Ha Ha! Yes it's an emotional response. I'm getting a chuckle out of you again.

Ha!... I can't take this conversation seriously anymore, so I guess I'm going to have to stand accused of not having any substance behind what I believe now. Ha Ha Ha!!!

Thanks for giving me a good laugh, bro. There's at least at little redeeming value in your posts anyway. Ha!

 

[CoreIssue]

Who here has the honesty to answer what it takes to enter into the New Jerusalem?

Well, the foundations are the 12 apostles and the gates to the 12 tribes.

The bride in Christ our wed at the wedding supper. Israel is the guest.

Pretty clear to me who's going to be there.

 

[CoreIssue]

Another gigantic lie in Dispensationalism is that the words of Jesus do not apply to Gentiles. Again, this is owing to the divisive nature of the doctrine. This time dividing people from the truth.

What are you babbling about?

Where did you get that nonsense from?

 

[CoreIssue]

I am not going to play this game with you. You simply don't understand this issue enough. Read Ezekiel 37.

I seem to understand it better than you.

As for the KJV, I have already shown is loaded with errors, is archaic English and is laden with catholic influence.

 

[Episkopos]

Well, the foundations are the 12 apostles and the gates to the 12 tribes.

The bride in Christ our wed at the wedding supper. Israel is the guest.

Pretty clear to me who's going to be there.

very confused...no wonder doctrinal stances have no real impact on people. No understanding here.

which are Jews and which are gentiles?> Use your dispensational logic...if you know it.

 

[Episkopos]

I seem to understand it better than you.

As for the KJV, I have already shown is loaded with errors, is archaic English and is laden with catholic influence.

Do you read Hebrew?

יד וְהָיָה, לְמִקְדָּשׁ; וּלְאֶבֶן נֶגֶף וּלְצוּר מִכְשׁוֹל לִשְׁנֵי בָתֵּי יִשְׂרָאֵל, לְפַח וּלְמוֹקֵשׁ--לְיוֹשֵׁב, יְרוּשָׁלִָם.

The MSS is the approved text of the Jews....who are the champions of dispie thinking.... yet it says both houses of Israel here.

Why are you questioning the word? What's the point?

 

[Episkopos]

What are you babbling about?

Where did you get that nonsense from?

Do you even know what Dispensationalism is?

Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel. Do you understand that or not?

 

[Episkopos]

Are there any informed objections to what I have posted? Anyone read Hebrew here?

 

[CoreIssue]

Do you read Hebrew?

יד וְהָיָה, לְמִקְדָּשׁ; וּלְאֶבֶן נֶגֶף וּלְצוּר מִכְשׁוֹל לִשְׁנֵי בָתֵּי יִשְׂרָאֵל, לְפַח וּלְמוֹקֵשׁ--לְיוֹשֵׁב, יְרוּשָׁלִָם.

The MSS is the approved text of the Jews....who are the champions of dispie thinking.... yet it says both houses of Israel here.

Why are you1 questioning the word? What's the point?

The MSS was written in the 7th to 10th centuries CE. Long after Christ declared the Jews apostate, so hardly a strong argument on your part.

 

[Episkopos]

The MSS was written in the 7th to 10th centuries CE. Long after Christ declared the Jews apostate, so hardly a strong argument on your part.

Long before Dispie thinking was invented.

The MSS is almost identical to the DSS which is about 2,000 years old. The only differences are what scribes would make mistakes in. It's the same text...

And your translation was made a few decades ago. (influenced by Dispie thinking) Why are you being like this? This is your attitude to the words from God?


Amazing.

Check the DSS (that's dead sea scrolls)

Show some informed thinking....

Have you checked the Septuagint? Do you read Koine Greek?

 

[CoreIssue]

Long before Dispie thinking was invented.

The MSS is almost identical to the DSS which is about 2,000 years old. The only differences are what scribes would make mistakes in. It's the same text...

And your translation was made a few decades ago. (influenced by Dispie thinking) Why are you being like this? This is your attitude to the words from God?


Amazing.

Check the DSS (that's dead sea scrolls)

Show some informed thinking....

Have you checked the SeptuaginSt? Do you read Koine Greek?

The DSS is not the bible or a bible manuscript. And if you had actually done study you would have found that the ancient Hebrew and Greek language understanding has grown in accuracy over the last years due to vast new discoveries of more manuscripts and linguistic sources. The translations I use go back to older manuscripts than yours,

Simple fact is the King James version is not a translation, but a revision of older catholic dominated bibles.

If anybody here is lacking in study, it is you.. ..

 

[Episkopos]

The DSS is not the bible or a bible manuscript. And if you had actually done study you would have found that the ancient Hebrew and Greek language have grown in accuracy over the last years due to vast discoveries of more manuscripts and linguistic source. The translations I use go back to older manuscripts than yours
Simple fact is the King James version is not a translation, under revision of older catholic dominated bibles.

If anybody here is lacking in study, it is you.. ..

How can an ancient text grow in accuracy? I'm done trying to talk to you.

 

[bbyrd009]

In a sense maybe...but like we've been saying, true Israel is Christ.

pretty close though i guess

"
For a meaning of the name Israel, NOBSE Study Bible Name List, BDB Theological Dictionary and Alfred Jones (Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names) unanimously go with the verb שרה of which the meaning is unsure. Undeterred, NOBSE reads God Strives, and BDB proposes El Persisteth or El Persevereth.

Alfred Jones figures that the mysterious verb שרה might very well mean "to be princely," and assumes that the name Israel consists of a future form of this verb, which hence would mean to become princely. And so Jones interprets the name Israel with He Will Be Prince With God.

Here at Abarim Publications, our contention is that the mystery verb שרה doesn't mean struggle at all, but rather reflects a worthiness to govern a nation. At the Jabbok, Jacob became the world's first godly king and his nation was Israel; God's (Vicarious) Governor.

 

[CoreIssue]

How can an ancient text grow in accuracy? I'm done trying to talk to you.

The understanding of the ancient languages grow clarity as more resources are found.

An example is the discovery of the Rosetta Stone.

Accuracy grows as more manuscripts are found.

 

[CoreIssue]

very confused...no wonder doctrinal stances have no real impact on people. No understanding here.

which are Jews and which are gentiles?> Use your dispensational logic...if you know it.

In the Church there are both.

In Israel there are OT Jews.

And in New Jerusalem there is neither jew, gentile, male or female.

Church and Israel are covenants. They are tools God uses to deliver salvation. No need for them in the New Jerusalem.

Of course the issues of rewards and promises also figure into reality of the New Jerusalem. That is getting far more complicated.

Plus a question of where those who are not Church or Israel but saved and innocents will be. My guess is on the New Earth outside the New Jerusalem, which the bible does not address.

 

[Keraz]

The Church is Israel

Just as the Gentile Ruth, an ancestor of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, could say to the Israelite Naomi: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God. Ruth 1:16, so Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel. Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12-19, Galatians 3:29
That is: all genetic Jews in the church remain members of Judah or Benjamin, the tribes they were born into. Romans 11:1 And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel and so will be assigned into its tribes, as per: Ezekiel 47:21-23, Isaiah 66:21 and as seen by John in Revelation 7:9

So the entire church represents the 12 tribes of Israel. This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved by the New Covenant, which is made only with the Israel of God. Hebrews 8:10

John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church. God knows who His people are, Amos 9:9, and every believer will be placed in the tribe suited to their abilities and characteristics.
Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are ethnic Jews, Acts 22:3 or ethnic Gentiles, Romans 16:4b, have become spiritually-circumcised Israelites, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus. Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13

The books of James and Peter are addressed to the twelve tribes, which is the same as addressing people in the church, people with faith in Christ , James 1:3, that is: Christians, people who have been born again in Jesus and who anticipate His Return.
All those in the church, from every tribe, race, nation and language, are spiritually Abraham's seed, by their faith. Galatians 3:29 And Abraham's seed is Israel. Isaiah 41:8-10 So the entire church membership are Israelites of God. Galatians 6:16 This literally means we are the ‘Overcomers for God’, or ‘God’s Victorious people’. Seen in each of the seven Church’s of Revelation and in Isaiah 56:1-8

Not just the Jews in the church, but also the Gentiles in the church, are all spiritually Abraham's seed of promise as Isaac was and as Jesus is the one and only true Seed. And so the peoples of the church, Jews and those from every race, nation and language, every faithful believing Christian is an heir of all the as yet, unfulfilled promises made by God to Israel in all of the Bible: Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 1:11-14


Zechariah 8:7-8 The Lord says: I am going to rescue My people from wherever they are in the world and I will bring them back into the holy Land, to Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God in truth and righteousness.
Romans 8:18 For I consider the trials and problems of the present time are not worth the glory that is going to be revealed to us.

 

[Phoneman777]

In Romans 11, Paul says God will graft back into Israel any who believe. So This makes Jesus and the Church biblical Israel.

My church brother pointed that out recently to me - how can literal Israel (which calls Jesus "The Great Imposter") be the "Israel of God" (which walks according to the rule of being a new creature in Christ) if literal Israel now requires reattachment surgery. Reattachment to what? Spiritual Israel aka the Israel of God aka the church.