Repentance necessary for salvation.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you for sharing so openly your thoughts here. :)

Perhaps this will help with your dilemma.
There's an old saying. People will treat you how you allow them to, by what you accept from their behaviors toward you.
If people read your beliefs and then read his, let them draw their own conclusions as the spirit leads them to search deeper.

Meanwhile, I would advise you not let darkness lead you toward their path. Nor lead you to speak their language. James 4:11.
We're to love our neighbor as yourself. What does it teach those reading us if we post in a manner that shows we cannot love one another here in this Christian community?
I think our words toward one another serve to show others who we are as the newborn in him when we profess Christ and share what we know of his word, and how it leads us to follow him amid one another.
In God's love,
Ag
Yes, I agree.

And even though I preach that the Lord can make a person perfectly holy, I do not consider myself to have apprehended that state of being yet. I am still imperfect; and I am also thankful to the Lord God for the shed blood of Jesus Christ which covers my sins when I fail (Romans 4:7-8); even because it is the attitude of my heart that I desire to be obedient to Him and the only reason that I fail is because of human weakness.

We are always to strive towards being more like Christ however; and I am in agreement with you that this is an area that I can work on (or, more accurately, offer to the Lord so that He can work on it).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Amazed@grace

Amazed@grace

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2021
1,611
1,388
113
futurum, ubi non sunt atheus troglodytae
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, I agree.

And even though I preach that the Lord can make a person perfectly holy, I do not consider myself to have apprehended that state of being yet. I am still imperfect; and I am also thankful to the Lord God for the shed blood of Jesus Christ which covers my sins when I fail (Romans 4:7-8); even because it is the attitude of my heart that I desire to be obedient to Him and the only reason that I fail is because of human weakness.

We are always to strive towards being more like Christ however; and I am in agreement with you that this is an area that I can work on (or, more accurately, offer to the Lord so that He can work on it).
Maranatha. :)
Blessed Be Ye,
Ag
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,501
21,647
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
All those who will be in heaven are children of God. They were perhaps once any and all of those, but were but were forgiven and saved by the grace of God through faith, and were transformed and conformed by God in the image of His Son, Jesus Christ. They have been made pure and were justified, and made holy. They are no longer any of those mentioned above.

We will not find in heaven even one wicked man there.
Amen!
 

Tong2020

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,854
848
113
*
Faith
Christian
Country
Philippines
Tong2020 said:
All those who will be in heaven are children of God. They were perhaps once any and all of those, but were but were forgiven and saved by the grace of God through faith, and were transformed and conformed by God in the image of His Son, Jesus Christ. They have been made pure and were justified, and made holy. They are no longer any of those mentioned above.

We will not find in heaven even one wicked man there.
Amen!
From the point in time they truly believed and were saved, all their good works will be judged by God for blessings and rewards, not only during their earthly life but also during their time in heaven, for God is pleased by their good and righteous works.

From the point in time they truly believed and were saved, they will be chastised for all their sinful works unto chastening and discipline, during their earthly life until they learn to turn away from them, that they may grow into mature children of God, geared unto transformation and conformity to the image of the Son, Jesus Christ. They will not be condemned to death in the lake of fire for such sinful works, for there is no more condemnation for them as they have passed from death to life, beginning from the time they were saved, when they truly believed in Him and in Jesus Christ, when they were sealed with the Holy Spirit.

What can we say then about those who profess and claim to be Christians who still willfully sin and live in sin?

No true Christian willfully sins and live in sin. It could only be then that their willful sinning and living in sin shows what faith they profess and claim to have, manifesting themselves to be just Christians by name and not true Christians. They have not been saved and remain condemned. For they continue in their willful sinning as it was before their supposed conversion. If there is anything new to them is only that they are called to be Christians, but not their heart and mind and spirit. Though, being in company with the true children of God, are in that sense sanctified from the world, and in that sense share the blessings of the children of God, as the blessing of God to His faithful children overflows from the true Christians to them.

Tong
R2792
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: marks

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,501
21,647
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Don’t fall into the trap of such deceptive and tricky questions. Questions in those nature were asked of Jesus, not so that they will know the truth, but only to trap Him, that they would have something to charge Him against and convict Him of sin and have Him suffer the penalty.
For me, these questions are intended to show it's not so cut and dried.

We are complicated sometimes.

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,501
21,647
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
god used repent 66X in the OT. and very few times in the Septuigant is it written as meta-noia! The only times it is is when it speaks of god repenting from what He would do to a person or city.
Thanks for looking that up! I couldn't remember, and haven't had the time. Interesting, isn't it!

Much love!
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is an article for the magazine in India that is run by a friend of mine, Melchishua Paul.

As I have been frequenting internet message boards, the subject has come up of whether repentance is a prerequisite for salvation.

Some on the boards have taken the ungodly and unbiblical position that salvation can be obtained apart from turning away from sin; and have gone so far as to say that those who preach otherwise are preaching a false and perverted gospel.

We will make our case on the basic premise that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness. Our basic text will be Ezekiel 33:11-20.

Eze 33:11, Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 33:12, Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14, Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15, If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16, None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
Eze 33:17, Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
Eze 33:18, When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Eze 33:19, But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Eze 33:20, Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.


In v.11, we find that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked that he should die. He teaches us here that the way that the wicked man can avoid death is that the wicked turn from his evil way and he will live.

In v.12, If once you have been made righteous, you turn back to walking in the direction of sin, your previous righteousness will not deliver you in the day that you turn towards sin. God repeats this twice in the same verse so this is something that He really means. Also, if a wicked man turns from his iniquity, he shall not fall for that iniquity in the day that he turns from his iniquity.

This would seem to indicate that one can enter into a situation where they are walking back and forth, once heading towards righteousness, then heading towards sin, then heading towards righteousness again; so that he keeps changing his direction back and forth. Such a situation will never help you to reach your destination. It is important that you turn towards righteousness and continue to walk in that direction. If you turn back towards sin, you may not be able to turn towards righteousness again; for once you commit sin you become a slave of sin (John 8:34); and therefore it may not be so easy to turn again towards righteousness. It is therefore important that, once you have made a clean break as concerning sin, that you continue to walk in the direction of righteousness.

In v.13, God may say to the person who has turned towards righteousness that he shall surely live; but if he trusts in his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for his sin. His righteosuness will not be remembered.

There are those who trust that they have the righteousness of Jesus Christ imputed to them and they trust in that righteousness. However, if they do not live out that righteousness, but decide that they can commit iniquity and they will still be righteous, they will find that the above reality is true in their lives. They shall die for their iniquity and their righteousness will not be remembered.

In v.14-16, If God says to a wicked person that he shall surely die, he will most assuredly live if he turns from his iniquity and begins to do what is lawful and right. This would consist of such things as restoring the pledge, giving back what he has robbed, and walking in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity.

In v.17, God gives the response of the people to this doctrine that the Lord has set forth. God knows that the people of Israel (and sometimes people in the church also) are a hard-hearted and stiff-necked people; and that their response to the Lord's doctrine is to say that the way of the Lord is not equal. But it is their way that is not equal.

In v.18, When the righteous person turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he will even die thereby; that is, he will perish because of his iniquity.

In v.19, When the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall even live thereby; that is, he will be saved because he has repented from walking in the direction of sin.

And in v.20, we find the reality that the people say to all of this that the way of the Lord is not equal. Yet the Lord says to them that He will judge them for all of their ways.
.
.
.
It should be clear that we have a definite formula on how to be saved in Romans 10:8-13. It would seem that if anyone calls on the name of the Lord (Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Acts 4:10-12), they shall be saved (Romans 10:13).

But to be more precise, we must confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in our heart that God hath raised Him from the dead. This would mean that Jesus IS the Lord of our life. Because we can just mouth the words, "Jesus is the Lord" but if He is not, it really is not a confession; because a confession is to agree with God. And if Jesus is not your Lord, to say that He is, is not to agree with God; because God is not saying it because it is not the truth (and we know that God is a God of truth...that should go without saying...but some might even contend otherwise, the way I see things going in the church today).

It should be clear that Jesus came into the world to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21) and that He died on the Cross to redeem us from all iniquity (Titus 2:14-15).

There is a "greasy grace" message out there that people fall for hook, line, and sinker.

It is what the apostle Jude wrote about in his letter.

Jde 1:3, Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jde 1:4, For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


In the NIV it says that these false teachers "turn the grace of God into a license for immorality."

They teach that grace means that you can do whatever you want; even if what you want to do is to indulge the flesh.

However, it should be clear that those who are born again do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit. It is written,

Rom 8:1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5, For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6, For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8, So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

what happened to FACAGA???
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,697
3,768
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Lots of reading, little learning.
I was simply saying that in the primary passage where God defines repentance (in Ezekiel 33:11-20) He does not use the word "repent"...at least, it is not translated that way into the English.

And that is what turning frm sin means- turning!
yet, you don't capitalize His title. From my perspective, that is a lack of respect for Him.


Well you h ave too many things from your perspective and not enough from Gods. YOu love to strain at gnats and swallow camels.
Suit yourself.

And all who wish to handle the word honestly.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Would you say verse 8 applies to the repentant Christian ?

Eze 33:8, When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

The wicked man who dies in his iniquity is not a repentant Christian, no.

Lots of reading, little learning.

That is your judgment; and it is not based in reality.

Judge righteous judgment (John 7:24) rather than according to the flesh (John 8:15).
 

Amazed@grace

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2021
1,611
1,388
113
futurum, ubi non sunt atheus troglodytae
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Eze 33:8, When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

The wicked man who dies in his iniquity is not a repentant Christian, no.
True. What about verses 12-16?
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
True. What about verses 12-16?

Eze 33:12, Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14, Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15, If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16, None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

They speak of both the repentant Christian as well as the one who repents and then repents again towards sin; he shall die for and in the latter thing.
 

Amazed@grace

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2021
1,611
1,388
113
futurum, ubi non sunt atheus troglodytae
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Eze 33:12, Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14, Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15, If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16, None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

They speak of both the repentant Christian as well as the one who repents and then repents again towards sin; he shall die for and in the latter thing.
In the context of the textual narrative, I believe it to be Ezekiel showing deep concern for those in his ministry and their behaviors that are contrary to righteousness.
 

JunChosen

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2020
1,884
416
83
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have not gone through all the posts on this thread but from what little I've read, below is my comment:

14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

To God Be The Glory
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have not gone through all the posts on this thread but from what little I've read, below is my comment:

14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

To God Be The Glory
This is Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION...he identifies himself as carnal, although he personally is not carnal, in order to define carnality and so that he might win the carnal to a living and saving faith in Jesus Christ (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

For he is here penning holy scripture; and therefore I believe that he cannot be anything but a holy man of God (2 Peter 1:21 (kjv)).

Therefore he is spiritual and not carnal (see 1 Corinthians 3:1-3).
 
Last edited:

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,697
3,768
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Eze 33:8, When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

The wicked man who dies in his iniquity is not a repentant Christian, no.



That is your judgment; and it is not based in reality.

Judge righteous judgment (John 7:24) rather than according to the flesh (John 8:15).


Do you still commit sins or not? Do you believe you are sinlessly perfect now?
 

JunChosen

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2020
1,884
416
83
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION...he identifies himself as carnal, although he personally is not carnal, in order to define carnality and so that he might win the carnal to a living and saving faith in Jesus Christ (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

For he is here penning holy scripture; and therefore I believe that he cannot be anything but a holy man of God (2 Peter 1:21).

Therefore he is spiritual and not carnal (see 1 Corinthians 3:1-3).

Literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION??!!

Paul is actually speaking about two laws indwelling in him. On the one hand the law of spirituality and on the other the law of carnality.

He goes on to say that the things he is suppose to do he does not, and the things that he shouldn't do that he does because he is a sinner. "For the good that I would I DO NOT; but the EVIL WHICH I WOULD NOT, that I do."

Paul continues to say in 2 Co. 5:8, "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." Although the law of carnality/reprobate is within me for the wages of sin is death, my body will still be raised on the last day.

To God Be The Glory
 
  • Like
Reactions: Amazed@grace

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you still commit sins or not? Do you believe you are sinlessly perfect now?

I do not consider myself to have apprehended (Philippians 3:12-14) and that makes me a candidate for perfection (Philippians 3:15).

Not sinless perfection (1 John 1:8)...perfection (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)).

For the element of sin within me can in fact be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over my behaviour (Romans 6:14).
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,697
3,768
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I do not consider myself to have apprehended (Philippians 3:12-14) and that makes me a candidate for perfection (Philippians 3:15).

Not sinless perfection (1 John 1:8)...perfection (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)).

For the element of sin within me can in fact be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over my behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Answer the question Yes or NO do you still commit any sins?
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Answer the question Yes or NO do you still commit any sins?
I'm not sure that I have committed any sins in my most recent past.

But I will say that I don't commit sin at any time in my life when I am abiding in Christ (1 John 3:6).

If I said NO; and then committed a sin five minutes from now, it would make my answer into a lie. Since I cannot foresee what I will do in the near or far future, I refrain from answering with a NO.

But I also do not think that YES is the proper and truthful answer to your question.