Is it a sin to talk about yourself?
If so, how then will anyone be able to give the word of their testimony and overcome the accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10-11)?
Repentance necessary for salvation.
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Is it a sin to talk about yourself?
If so, how then will anyone be able to give the word of their testimony and overcome the accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10-11)?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
@marks
How do you think all these denominations formed?
Most are formed by people that picked and choose what they liked and or twist the interpretation of what they do not like or just flat out ignored scriptures.
Amazing Grace and forgiveness is an incredible thing and insures the salvation of those that live for Christ. It does not matter what they did before they were saved, but after, Christ expects them not to be evil and keep sinning down to a minimum. Grace is not setup as a system that sanctions evil and welcomes them into heaven. How could you imagine that would work, heaven full of those with evil character? If they continued to live a life of evil, being forgiven did not change their character. So evil migrates to heaven? Again what is hell the punishment for?
How do you think all these denominations formed?
Most are formed by people that picked and choose what they liked and or twist the interpretation of what they do not like or just flat out ignored scriptures.
Amazing Grace and forgiveness is an incredible thing and insures the salvation of those that live for Christ. It does not matter what they did before they were saved, but after, Christ expects them not to be evil and keep sinning down to a minimum. Grace is not setup as a system that sanctions evil and welcomes them into heaven. How could you imagine that would work, heaven full of those with evil character? If they continued to live a life of evil, being forgiven did not change their character. So evil migrates to heaven? Again what is hell the punishment for?
I was just talking about your saying I must think God is stupid or a moron.
Working the system, that's what I am in your eyes?
Or a sinner saved by grace?
Santioning evil, this tells me you don't have the first understanding of how I see evil. And not just in the big obvious stuff. In failing to love, it leaves a hole which evil rushes into.
People speak of me of having a light view of sin, or here, sanctioning evil, I'm the guy who's saying we need to understand the importance of loving others at all times, being and doing all the things the Bible tells us. In this way we cooperate with the will of God, and His plans for this world.
ANYTHING otherwise . . . anything less than loving Him, and loving others, and trusting Jesus, anything else veers away from the path ordained by the Creator of all things, before Whom each of us will stand, and we will hear what He has to say, and nothing anyone else has to say will matter in that day.
Just how far, I wonder, are we willing to go AWAY from what God intends, and AGAINST the will of God? This is the significance of love. Only in Godly, Spirit-produced love for others will we fulfill God's plan for us and for them. Anything less is just that, less. It falls short.
When we start rating ourselves according to our perceptions of ourselves, slicing and dicing our behavior, we've lost that focus of a mind set on heavenly things, a mind filled with thoughts of God, of Jesus, meditations of His Word, spiritual songs, like that.
God's love is what we are here for, to live in it, to know God's love for us, to share His love with others. We do this by trusting Jesus, because it is Him, not us, that makes it happen in and through us. We don't produce His love, we allow Him to fill our hearts to overflowing by trusting that this is He will - He said it's what He is doing - and then living in this reality. If in fact we have faith that His Word is true, and this IS reality.
I know that God is here with me. I know He ALWAYS loves and accepts me, and we have continual communion because my peace with God is in Christ, the Righteous One, the Unchanging One. He will never ever ever leave me or forsake me.
To some, this springboards into suspicions of, then you can sin all you want, or some such. Well, it turns out that true. You CAN actually sin the amount that you want to. Which is none at all.
Because sin is from the flesh, and you've been born of God, Who is Spirit, and what is born of Spirit is spirit, we are the spirit children of God. And because we find our life in the Spirit of God, instead of the fleshy man born from Adam, we have no corruption of sin, and we do righteousness. This is is reality, and this is how we live as we believe this is reality.
If we become confused, because the fleshy mind thoughts sound like us, or the fleshy body feelings seem so insistent, or whatever reason, we aren't trusting that we are the new and free spirit child of God. We forget that we aren't still the old man. We forget that we've been cleansed of our past sins.
Jesus' blood has given us freedom from sin. Freedom from it's condemnation, and freedom from it's power.
"hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace"
Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV
26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The blood of the covenant . . . this is the new covenant in my blood . . . counting this as an unholy thing. There remains no more sacrifice for sins - no more sin offering. Jesus, His blood, no more of your own offerings. AS IF Jesus' blood were no better than animal blood! Coming back with something less than Jesus, His shed blood, is an insult to the Spirit of Grace.
His blood, that alone, nothing do we bring to the table.
Anyway, sorry, I do go on . . .
Much love!
I just caught what you said there . . . is it your idea that some people are simply too great of sinners to be saved?
Much love!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I think that he is saying that those who continue to be evil ought not to be allowed in heaven.
I am inclined to agree with him.
If God doesn't want you to it is.
I prefer to avoid such, unless there seems to me to be a clear indication from the Holy Spirit that I should, at which time I'm perfectly fine with being as forthcoming as the situation seems to warrant. If I think it's helpful, then I will. But for the most part, I strongly prefer to discuss the Bible, and not me.
Much love!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I am not the one going away from the word of God. You just want to ignore a large part of it.
It is not of good and sweet character to preach that evil goes to heaven.
According to what you believe heaven is hell with out the fire. It is still torment because the good has to be among the evil.
Christ is not stupid he knows your intent. And you cannot work the system against Him and Christianity.
Whose minimum? Yours? Mine? God's? Be holy, as I am holy. That's His instruction. How much wiggle room do you figure there is?
And who is sanctioning evil? You're saying God allows some sin in our lives, I'm saying God's given us live that allows us to avoid all sin. But be it to us according to our faith. And as we grow, well, we grow. We become more consistent. More conformed. We learn to think according to what the Bible tells us, such as, we are dead to sin, dead to the flesh, dead to the law, dead to the world. That sin has no power over us. That we are free from sin. That we don't have to continue committing sin.
I'm saying that by trusting Jesus, we can walk away from sin, and live holy lives. But if we are looking to ourself, and our ability to "control our sin", our eyes will be in the wrong place, and we will find we are working against ourselves.
Trusting in Jesus to empower us to live holy lives, simply do the good thing that is in front of you to do. It won't be sin, it will be righteousness, done in the Spirit, the fruit of Him inside you. His fruit.
Much love!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Are we back to some form of Calvinism where God controls their minds and they are not the same person in any way that they were in life.
What good is heaven as a reward for good people to be imprisoned with the evil. Christianity is not a religion of sanctioning evil. Christianity is not about catering to the evil. JUST BELIEVE IN ME AND IT IS A FREE TICKET TO HEAVEN! Don't worry about morality, we will just be evil together in heaven. Maybe we can kick out the good people.
Again why would God want to abide with people of evil character?
I come back to this, and I realize how vastly different these different points of view are.
On the one hand, there's don't sin. Keep it down. Pay attention! We are to pay attention to the wiles of the devil, who attacks against our faith. Don't let him trick you into not trusting Jesus!
But this is more, check your sins, make sure they are all confessed, make sure they don't get too out of hand, uh-oh, here it comes again!
On the other hand, there's In God's grace I'm clean. I feel free with Him. I don't have any concerns, God and I, here together, to take care of my life, of me. And really, He's the One taking the care. When peace becomes troubled, I know I need to refocus myself on God, His love and forgiveness, and remember Him who holds me dear to His heart.
Don't misunderstand. I'm like everyone, I have better days and other days. But I've come to learn that the power is in the blood, His shed blood, the finished work of Christ on the cross. I don't add to it, I receive, everything I have I receive from Him.
Really, the struggle is in enduring through difficult situations and circumstances without veering from trust and love.
Much love!
I was born dead in sin, with a corrupted fleshy body. I WANT to be cleansed from sin, and that remains true even if I struggle against this corrupt fleshy body, when has some really problematic issues, to say the least!
God's promise it to cleanse me from all unrighteousness, and that's exactly what I want, so we are in complete agreement, nothing is happening against my will.
And in fact I believe God has actually cleansed me of all unrighteousness. Learning to live in that reality is described in 'renewing the mind'. Also, putting on the new man, and, putting on Christ.
Much love!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The "you" it is not just you and I am using the word "you" to sometimes to refer to this new denomination. And I have no idea of your sins. And believing that people of evil character go to heaven...I don't think affects your salvation, unless you are using this hyper Grace thing to justify your own sinful lifestyle. People will pick a lifestyle sin and believe that that one sin is covered by Grace. They call it the "Name it, and claim it" crowd.
The danger with this new denomination is that it teaches young Christians that it is ok or they can get away with taking drugs...it covered by Grace. It is ok to be homosexual...it covered by Grace. It is ok to get an abortion...it covered by Grace. It is ok to molest children...it covered by Grace. A sanction to sin...no ramifications...is a sanction to sin in practice.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
That is all well and good...try STOP SINNING! and you will have less to worry about. Or less to answer for on Judgment Day.
And others take their drugs given them by doctors and call it OK. They lust and think they are better than the homosexual. There is no sanction. And let's not kid ourselves about sin, either. It's the same thing inside us that mentally undresses someone as molests children. Its the flesh. The flesh is condemned. Sin is condemned, all of it.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. False words, spiteful or mean or scheming words, these come from vindictive and dishonest heart, it's all from the same place, the flesh. Jesus died and rose so we can die to our flesh, and rise in His Spirit to a new life.
And that life is not like the old life, or like life under Mosaic Law, for instance. It's a new life in the Spirit, living a new spirit life all the time, or, be it to you according to your faith.
Much love!
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Well, the point is, don't try, do.
Faith gives you access to walking in the Spirit. Once you get used to it, then walking in the Spirit becomes more of your default state, and you become more sensitive to when you start to slide away.
Monitoring your thoughts, disallowing and correcting any that don't match with faith and love. But again, as you do this more and more, there are fewer interruptions, because really, we're just "working out" what God is "working in".
Much love!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Again and again, you can be saved, you can be forgiven, you can be cleansed squeaky clean and polished...but if your character never changes and if you continue to live an evil lifestyle, that is your character that is your life, and you are evil. Again you is anybody.
"""Also, putting on the new man, and, putting on Christ.""" Putting on the new man has to be a man of character or it does not matter a lick. And you will arrive on Judgment Day and evil man full of sins to his credit.
Matthew 7:21 if you care for scripture...
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. and and and
Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? and and and
Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Ya want some more scripture or are you just going to deny them too.
If there's nothing changed, what would be the reason to think there's been rebirth?
Much love!
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