Repentance necessary for salvation.

[JunChosen]

I'm not sure that I have committed any sins in my most recent past.

Listen and listen well!

Scripture declares the "wages of sin [singular] is death." And, "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."

The above passages intimate that you and everybody [no exceptions] have committed sins in the past.

Need I go on?

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

But I will say that I don't commit sin at any time in my life when I am abiding in Christ (1 John 3:6).

It's because you have not read Romans 7:14 to the end of the chapter and if you did, it's also because you did not get the meaning.

To God Be The Glory

 

[justbyfaith]

Listen and listen well!

Scripture declares the "wages of sin [singular] is death." And, "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."

The above passages intimate that you and everybody [no exceptions] have committed sins in the past.

Need I go on?

To God Be The Glory

Now you need to know that I am not stupid. It is very clear in 1 John 1:10 that if I say that I have not (ever) sinned, I make God a liar and His word isn't in me.

This is different from saying that I have been abiding in Christ consistently for the majority of the recent past.

The Bible is clear that as long as I abide in Jesus Christ, I sin not (1 John 3:6).

It is also clear on declaring the possibility that I can abide in Him for ever more (1 John 2:17).

Saying that I have been abiding in Christ for some time is different from saying that I have never sinned. The latter would be a travesty of a lie. The former is to testify of the saving power of Jesus Christ and His shed blood; that He is indeed able to redeem us from all iniquity (Titus 2:14-15); not just the penalty of it but the power and practice of it.

I can testify honestly that He has so worked in my heart that I have continued to abide in Him for a short season and up to the present moment. This may be very sensitive and breakable. Today I told a DMV operator that he almost got himself punched in the nose; because he talked down to my wife in such a way that it seemed he considered her to be retarded. He tried to tell her what the pink slip for a vehicle looks like and she was already fully aware of what that was; so she was offended by him. And not that this is an excuse; but I am schizoaffective and there is a bipolar element to that diagnosis. So, this guy was asking for it and I might have given it to him if not for the fruit of the Spirit operating in me, of self-control.

And I would call it a non-willful sin that I even wanted to punch him in the nose. (And perhaps a willful one that I told him that I almost gave that to him. Though in all reality I consider that I was saving his butt from the next situation in which he might have had the same attitude and not have been so lucky as to have been talking to a Christian; but that the next time around, if he kept the same attitude, he might have encountered a non-Christian with bipolar disorder or worse. So maybe it adjusted his attitude so that he won't get into trouble in the future.)

See how that works?

It's because you have not read Romans 7:14 to the end of the chapter and if you did, it's also because you did not get the meaning.

To God Be The Glory

Paul was not carnal when he wrote Romans 7:14-25. For, he was penning holy scripture; and therefore he was at that time a holy man of God (see 2 Peter 1:21 (kjv)).

In Romans 7:14-25, Paul is using a literary tactic called IDENTIFICATION. He identifies himself as carnal in order to define carnality in order that he might win the carnal person to Christ. He speaks of the fact that he uses this tactic on occasion in 1 Corinthians 9:22. He became as weak in order to win the weak to Christ.

In the passage, the transitional verse is verse 24; which shows that if anyone is born again or about to be born again, and yet living a Romans 7:14-25 lifestyle, that they are discontented with their lifestyle of sinning: their conscience forbids them to continue in such a fashion as it afflicts them for their sinful behaviour and they begin to cry out, "Wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

The answer being that Jesus is able to set them free from sin (if you go backward to Romans 6:22 you can see this; and also, you might see in Romans 8:2 that the law of the Spirit of life can set you free from the law of sin and death: which is the principle spoken of in Romans 7:14-25).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I'm not sure that I have committed any sins in my most recent past.

But I will say that I don't commit sin at any time in my life when I am abiding in Christ (1 John 3:6).

If I said NO; and then committed a sin five minutes from now, it would make my answer into a lie. Since I cannot foresee what I will do in the near or far future, I refrain from answering with a NO.

But I also do not think that YES is the proper and truthful answer to your question.

Well you have finally written something we both know is the truth. 1 John 3:6 when we are experientially abiding in Christ we cannot commit any sin at all. The new man cannot sin. But we still have the old man (though He has been declared dead by god) that we must contned with and everyone at times yields to the old man. That is why God gives us 1 John 1:9 and Jesus said forgiveness is 70X7 in a day for the same thing!

 

[justbyfaith]

Well you have finally written something we both know is the truth. 1 John 3:6 when we are experientially abiding in Christ we cannot commit any sin at all. The new man cannot sin. But we still have the old man (though He has been declared dead by god) that we must contend <fify> with and everyone at times yields to the old man. That is why God gives us 1 John 1:9 and Jesus said forgiveness is 70X7 in a day for the same thing!

When we sin, we sin with our whole selves and not just with our flesh (the old man).

We are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12-13, Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10); and therefore sin is not inevitable in the believer.

In fact, the doctrine of the inevitability of sin is a false doctrine and heresy.

 

[quietthinker]

Repentance necessary for salvation.
Is that 24/7.....What should I do with my free ticket?

 

[marksman]

(cont'd)...

Now we receive the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:14) and if we have been given the Holy Spirit, we obey Him (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

There is more to that passage.

Rom 8:9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

In v. 12, it should be clear that if you have the Holy Spirit, you are not obligated to walk after the flesh and it may even be that you owe it to God to walk according to the Spirit.

Here is another passage that is of relevance.

Gal 5:16, This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17, For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This passage tells us what it means to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit; and it is a companion passage to Romans 8:1-14; which we have shared above.

If one understands the mental and emotional state of those who oppose what is in scripture. we usually find that what they oppose they usually don't want to admit to because it has implications that they dont want to face.

The reason an atheist says God does not exist is due to the fact that he doesn't want God to exist because if he does, all their theories are blown out of the window so they have to make God a non event. Whether it is true or not is irrelevant.

 

[theefaith]

During 1973, I was read John 3:16. I had a vision of a sword plunging into my belly. As this happened, my heart was flooded with the realization that the verse was true.
Later on, I was informed that if I was truly saved, I wouldn't sin anymore. Try as I might, I was unable not to sin. I was miserable.
I figured I may as well stop believing, and enjoy the pleasures of this life the best I could.
This meant drugs and promiscuity.
The problem was, try as I may, I couldn't stop believing.
Fast forward to March 10, 1994. I had just finished smoking a 50 piece of crack. I had chest pains and realized that I couldn't stop. I then knew that I would eventually die from my drug use.
I turned to God, not knowing if He would hear me. I was desperate. I asked for help. I then dug out my bible from a box in my closet. I flipped it open to Isaiah 54. I also read somewhere else that said, "Flee."
The next morning I left my life behind and went to live in another town.
For four months I sought God with all my heart, not really understanding what I was doing. I was desperate.
One Sunday morning I got up to go to church. As I adjusted my tie in the mirror, I realized that I was being a fraud. I took the suit off.
That night I went to a fellowship where I was told I wouldn't be looked down on because I had long hair and wore jeans.
When I got there that evening, I walked into what was then known as the Vineyard movement. I met my Father that night, His heart of unconditional love for me connected with mine. Except for a brief time in early 2000, that connection has remained intact.
That brief time was when He disconnected from me, even though He had told me a few months earlier that He would never leave me nor forsake me. For a terrible 3 weeks, I didn't know where He was.
Then, while at a Christian retreat, and as I watched a video where the man said, "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; the one who believes will never be shaken." (Isaiah 28:16)
I then saw, in the Spirit, a stone fly into my right side and knew it was Jesus. I burst out into sobs of relief. The video ended. As each staff member walked by me, they patted me on the shoulder and said, "What just happened was a good thing," and, "Everything's going to be okay now."
For the rest of the week, I learned much, including how repentance is necessary for the healing of my soul, the breaking of curses, and for the expulsion of demons.
My spirit was reborn when I heard John 3:16; however, for the healing (salvation) of my soul, I had to walk out Luke 9:23, among other things.
This is my testimony; I realize most are not sons of Levi nor called to the "5-fold" ministry, so things may be different for others. Shalom.

then salvation is works cos you have to choose to repent

 

[Ronald Nolette]

When we sin, we sin with our whole selves and not just with our flesh (the old man).

We are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12-13, Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10); and therefore sin is not inevitable in the believer.

In fact, the doctrine of the inevitability of sin is a false doctrine and heresy.

Well the inevitability of sin is not a false doctrine. It is a reality if one for even a nanosecond lives in the flesh!

Sin is not inevitable but likely. God knew this and wrote about it and is merciful as we are learning how to unlearn the old ways and learn the new! Alsdo learning to tear down the strongholds in our lives we built and building godly walls! You just say God has no patience with a saint who satruglles with known sin. To you He is an unbeliever and lost and that is the heresy and false doctrine!

 

[JunChosen]

The Bible is clear that as long as I abide in Jesus Christ, I sin not (1 John 3:6).

The key phrase is, "as long as I abide." Have you always abided and had not doubted like Peter did when Jesus told him to come, and he took off his eyes from off of Jesus, just for a second, and he began to sink in the water?

WOW, you're the ONLY person I know that do not cease to abide in Jesus. I thought this can only happen when we get to heaven.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Amazed@grace]

Listen and listen well!

Scripture declares the "wages of sin [singular] is death." And, "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."

The above passages intimate that you and everybody [no exceptions] have committed sins in the past.

Need I go on?

To God Be The Glory

1John 1
1John 2

 

[amigo de christo]

then salvation is works cos you have to choose to repent

Thee faith , i would love to hear of your conversion to God .
Tis GOD who led me to repentance . And that not of myself , twas the grace O GOD .
But go ye and learn this . Oh wait man cannot learn what GOD has not first done .
Does that last line seem a bit confusing .
Here let me make it clearer . TILL YA EXPERIENCE IT , ye will not know what i speak of .
My conversion came not by me , BUT BY GOD HIMSELF . IT was not me who gave me the new desires
it was not me that led me to Christ and a deep knowledge of How i needed a savoir . IT WAS GOD my friend .
YE have learned , but ye have learned ROME . RCC cannot set a man free . BUT JESUS CAN . GOD CAN .
How i pray this sinks in . My prayer is for your good . I Desire the death of none . ONLY LIFE and LIFE ETERNAL IN CHRIST .
But go ye and learn what this means .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Thee faith , i would love to hear of your conversion to God .
Tis GOD who led me to repentance . And that not of myself , twas the grace O GOD .
But go ye and learn this . Oh wait man cannot learn what GOD has not first done .
Does that last line seem a bit confusing .
Here let me make it clearer . TILL YA EXPERIENCE IT , ye will not know what i speak of .
My conversion came not by me , BUT BY GOD HIMSELF . IT was not me who gave me the new desires
it was not me that led me to Christ and a deep knowledge of How i needed a savoir . IT WAS GOD my friend .
YE have learned , but ye have learned ROME . RCC cannot set a man free . BUT JESUS CAN . GOD CAN .
How i pray this sinks in . My prayer is for your good . I Desire the death of none . ONLY LIFE and LIFE ETERNAL IN CHRIST .
But go ye and learn what this means .

Oh let the glorious biblical Lord Jesus be praised.
Let us keep our eyes glued on Jesus and noses in bibles.

 

[amigo de christo]

then salvation is works cos you have to choose to repent

z

Lets rewrite that sentence . Or at least the last part . You mean to say , for ye were LED TO REPENTANCE , LED BY GOD .
I tell us all that ye are saved by Grace alone and that Comes BY GOD in CHRIST . For man , the flesh
cannot lead nor draw us to Christ . GOD DOES .
I remember the day of my birth and i speak not of my natural birth but of my spiritual birth .
I , did not put the interest nor desire in my heart to SEEK GOD , TO SEEK CHRIST . HE DID . Let it sink in real deep .
There is nothing i can give myself credit for , other than to say , TIS ONLY the GOODNESS and MERCY OF GOD
that drew me out of many waters placing a whole new heart and mind within . The mind that loved and loves GOD , TRUTH
ER WORD OF GOD . TIS a gift my friends . Even when the evil of my flesh
arises in my mind , ITS NOT by the flesh that i am made aware of the evil , BUT BY THE SPIRIT .
NOW , IF GOD were to take HIS SPIRIT FROM ME , THEN YOU WOULD SEE THE MAN I ONCE WAS , LIVING AND LOVING SIN .
Paul was right . HE too said , I laborored more abundantely than them all , YET NOT I , BUT THE GRACE OF GOD WITHIN ME .
SING TO THE KING MY PEOPLES . LET all men flee the RCC and any other who would instruct us contrary to GOD .
AND let us learn well those bibles . and ps , before you try and remind me of some thing i already know ,
i will say it first . FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD . FOR if our works be evil , WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE
OF the grace of GOD at work within us . DID YOU NOT KNOW , HAS IT NOT BEEN SAID and taught thee ,
THAT true lambs are the WORKMAN SHIP of GOD , created in CHRIST UNTO GOOD WORKS
THUS if one is still the old man , YEAH they FAITH IS DEADER or as dead as much of the doctrine i hear from ROME or most all other churches .
DEAD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh let the glorious biblical Lord Jesus be praised.
Let us keep our eyes glued on Jesus and noses in bibles.

And our sister knows . For WHO was it that stirred you up to go into that bible and learn GOD . IT WAS THE LORD .
YES INDEED . YES INDEED SISTER . Now let the KING BE PRAISED . LET us continue in CHRIST , HEEDING the SPIRIT
and not the flesh . And as i say often and MAN O MAN I LOVE TO KEEP SAYING . BEHOLD THE COMING OF THE LORD DRAWS EVER EVER NIGH .

 

[theefaith]

Thee faith , i would love to hear of your conversion to God .
Tis GOD who led me to repentance . And that not of myself , twas the grace O GOD .
But go ye and learn this . Oh wait man cannot learn what GOD has not first done .
Does that last line seem a bit confusing .
Here let me make it clearer . TILL YA EXPERIENCE IT , ye will not know what i speak of .
My conversion came not by me , BUT BY GOD HIMSELF . IT was not me who gave me the new desires
it was not me that led me to Christ and a deep knowledge of How i needed a savoir . IT WAS GOD my friend .
YE have learned , but ye have learned ROME . RCC cannot set a man free . BUT JESUS CAN . GOD CAN .
How i pray this sinks in . My prayer is for your good . I Desire the death of none . ONLY LIFE and LIFE ETERNAL IN CHRIST .
But go ye and learn what this means .

Not without the sacraments

 

[theefaith]

z

Lets rewrite that sentence . Or at least the last part . You mean to say , for ye were LED TO REPENTANCE , LED BY GOD .
I tell us all that ye are saved by Grace alone and that Comes BY GOD in CHRIST . For man , the flesh
cannot lead nor draw us to Christ . GOD DOES .
I remember the day of my birth and i speak not of my natural birth but of my spiritual birth .
I , did not put the interest nor desire in my heart to SEEK GOD , TO SEEK CHRIST . HE DID . Let it sink in real deep .
There is nothing i can give myself credit for , other than to say , TIS ONLY the GOODNESS and MERCY OF GOD
that drew me out of many waters placing a whole new heart and mind within . The mind that loved and loves GOD , TRUTH
ER WORD OF GOD . TIS a gift my friends . Even when the evil of my flesh
arises in my mind , ITS NOT by the flesh that i am made aware of the evil , BUT BY THE SPIRIT .
NOW , IF GOD were to take HIS SPIRIT FROM ME , THEN YOU WOULD SEE THE MAN I ONCE WAS , LIVING AND LOVING SIN .
Paul was right . HE too said , I laborored more abundantely than them all , YET NOT I , BUT THE GRACE OF GOD WITHIN ME .
SING TO THE KING MY PEOPLES . LET all men flee the RCC and any other who would instruct us contrary to GOD .
AND let us learn well those bibles . and ps , before you try and remind me of some thing i already know ,
i will say it first . FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD . FOR if our works be evil , WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE
OF the grace of GOD at work within us . DID YOU NOT KNOW , HAS IT NOT BEEN SAID and taught thee ,
THAT true lambs are the WORKMAN SHIP of GOD , created in CHRIST UNTO GOOD WORKS
THUS if one is still the old man , YEAH they FAITH IS DEADER or as dead as much of the doctrine i hear from ROME or most all other churches .
DEAD .

grace is from God

 

[amigo de christo]

Not without the sacraments

Here we go again . What did i tell you a while back .
IF ONE IS OF CHRIST , they LOVE and are hearers and doers . THUS if JESUS said something they love and do it .
AND DID HE NOT say , DO THIS as OFTEN as ye drink in remembrance of ME . THUS would we not be doers of the word .
YES . I , by grace , DO communion my friend . HEARERS and DOERS are what true lambs are .
But be not as ROME for she often teaches the precepts of men which deny the words of Christ and of GOD ,
yet teaches men to worship men and angels , to pray to them . THUS OMITTING
WHAT GOD alone has said. And she beguiles men of their rewards by a humility and worshipping of angels .
Just cause Rome can get some things right , dont mean SHE IS RIGHT .
I know of many denominations and many false religoins that can say SOME truths . BUT THEY HAVE NOT THE TRUTH .
GO and learn what that means . They have truths , can teach truths , but they neither know nor preach THE TRUTH .
GO ye and learn that well . FOR i tell us all , many decievers do and have and shall abound . Teaching some truths
but knowing NOT THE TRUTH , seeing they themselves are Blind and yet say WE SEE .

 

[amigo de christo]

grace is from God

yes . you are correct on this .

 

[JunChosen]

1John 1
1John 2

I probably did not get the thrust of your comment above, but I suggest read Romans 7:14-25.