Rest In Your Residency

[bbyrd009]

Why would a born again believer not do what the Lord says. They accuse them day and night Rev 12:10.

um, are you asking me why Christ said that?

My guess would be that "born-again believers" mostly call themselves that now--not unlike many "Bishops" do now, too i am noticing--and perhaps the same thing was going on then, i guess? People want to sit on a fence; have their cake and eat it, too. Say "i trust God," and then go buy insurance. Etc.

 

[bbyrd009]

Rom 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.

well, hmm, you have underlined "Who will bring any charge,"--which btw i am not seeking to do here, at all; no charges--when we might examine "those whom God has chosen," with all due respect.
How many chosen" were there of the million-plus Wanderers? 2?"

 

[justaname]

I posted what I feel is a fair challenge to a popular Christian axiom - "We need not concern ourselves with the "letter of the law" because we keep "the spirit of the law" as New Covenant Christians".

I pointed out that while it seems on the surface to be exceedingly profound, it is actually exceedingly absurd - if a person keeps the "spirit of the law" he is by default keeping the "letter of the law". Surely, if you seek daily to keep your mind pure from impure sexual thoughts ("spirit of the law") then you most certainly are careful to not climb into the bed with someone other than your wife/husband ("letter of the law"), are you not?

Therefore, if "resting in the finished work of Jesus" is what we New Covenant Christians do regarding the "spirit of the law" with respect to the Sabbath commandment, then why have we abandoned the "letter of the law" which God wrote with His own finger in stone that we should work six days and rest from work on the seventh? Mr. NetChaplain advises that we consult "men of God's Word" for a more comprehensive understanding of truth, an idea which rings of Catholic ideology. I submit that anyone who can't distinguish the difference between the first day and the seventh day, or can't recognize the glaring inconsistency of such ludicrous axioms as the one aforementioned, is hardly equipped to assist the Holy Spirit in His work to 'guide you into all truth".

I wonder if in your last section here you realize your own inconsistency? Why should we recognize your proposed consultation or axiom concerning Mr. NetChaplin? Your argument is self-refuting.


While the Scriptures are our only rule of faith and practice (Mt 15: 3-9), God’s Spirit has guided the church through the ages as it has sought to rightly understand that Word. Even conservative theologian Herman Bavinck was quick to warn against the views of some who attempted to produce a theology from the Bible alone with no guidance from the church. In misguided attempts to elevate Scripture, they often mistreated God’s holy Word by isolating it from the body of Christ and ignoring the insights of others. The skilled interpreter must learn crucial historical, linguistic and literary information about the diverse writings contained in Scripture and recognize that “presuppositionlessness and objectivity are impossible.” In fact, “so much study and reflection on the subject is bound up with it that no person can possibly do it alone. That takes centuries.” This is why the Spirit guides the church as a body and not just a collection of assorted individuals. “Whoever isolates himself from the church, i.e., Christianity as a whole, from the history of dogma in its entirety, loses the truth of the Christian faith.” God has put us into a body, the church— for our worship is not a solo but a chorus of praise (see 1 Cor 14: 26).

Kapic, Kelly M. (2012-08-05). A Little Book for New Theologians: Why and How to Study Theology (Kindle Locations 859-869). InterVarsity Press. Kindle Edition.

 

[Heb 13:8]

People want to sit on a fence; have their cake and eat it, too. Say "i trust God," and then go buy insurance. Etc.

That's what you think about believers, but in the real world none of that's true. Do you see now how you're the accuser of the brethren.

well, hmm, you have underlined "Who will bring any charge,"--which btw i am not seeking to do here, at all; no charges--when we might examine "those whom God has chosen," with all due respect.
How many chosen" were there of the million-plus Wanderers? 2?"

But you are charging christians, with sloth and god knows what else. All lies from the evil one. The chosen are His elect, born again christians who have accepted the free gift of salvation by grace through faith.

 

[bbyrd009]

That's what you think about believers, but in the real world none of that's true. Do you see now how you're the accuser of the brethren.

Um, sorry? I am just generalizing; Christ said

'You call me "*Lord, *Lord". But you do not do what I say

 

[Heb 13:8]

Um, sorry? I am just generalizing; Christ said

'You call me "*Lord, *Lord". But you do not do what I say

which that scripture is about false teachers, non born again christians.

 

[bbyrd009]

The chosen are His elect, born again christians who have accepted the free gift of salvation by grace through faith.

Well, that is your definition, and i don't see anything wrong with it. categorically speaking, anyway.
I'm sure all the former slaves said the same thing, leaving Egypt laden down with gold and silver
after walking through the Passover Door, now Free Men.

Too bad none of them made it to the Promised Land, that's all.
All they had to do was follow, right?

 

[bbyrd009]

which that scripture is about false teachers, non born again christians.

ok

 

[Heb 13:8]

Well, that is your definition, and i don't see anything wrong with it. categorically speaking, anyway.
I'm sure all the former slaves said the same thing, leaving Egypt laden down with gold and silver
after walking through the Passover Door, now Free Men.

Too bad none of them made it to the Promised Land, that's all.
All they had to do was follow, right?

And that's what believers do, they follow. John 10:27. Satan is the one that charges them with condemnation.

 

[bbyrd009]

which that scripture is about false teachers, non born again christians.

ah, sorry, my Win10 decided it was time for a spontaneous restart, lol.

um, you say this is for "false teachers," intimating that Christ is speaking to the willing dead, and not seekers. So i'm not buyin it, sorry.

 

[bbyrd009]

And that's what believers do, they follow. John 10:27. Satan is the one that charges them with condemnation.

hmm. were all who perished in the Wilderness condemned? They were saved, were they not? They were free, right? The parable of the Snake on a Pole, for those "bitten by snakes" in the Wilderness, should be reflected upon here imo.

God can make believers from rocks!
satan believes, too!

 

[Heb 13:8]

ah, sorry, my Win10 decided it was time for a spontaneous restart, lol.

um, you say this is for "false teachers," intimating that Christ is speaking to the willing dead, and not seekers. So i'm not buyin it, sorry.

it's not for you to buy. many confess with their mouth, but don't believe in thy heart. religion doesn't save you. Rom 10:9

hmm. were all who perished in the Wilderness condemned? They were saved, were they not? They were free, right? The parable of the Snake on a Pole, for those "bitten by snakes" in the Wilderness, should be reflected upon here imo.

God can make believers from rocks!
satan believes, too!

and one day God is going to separate the sheep from the goats, and we'll know then won't we.

 

[mjrhealth]

While the Scriptures are our only rule of faith and practice (Mt 15: 3-9), God’s Spirit has guided the church through the ages as it has sought to rightly understand that Word. Even conservative theologian Herman Bavinck was quick to warn against the views of some who attempted to produce a theology from the Bible alone with no guidance from the church. In misguided attempts to elevate Scripture, they often mistreated God’s holy Word by isolating it from the body of Christ and ignoring the insights of others. The skilled interpreter must learn crucial historical, linguistic and literary information about the diverse writings contained in Scripture and recognize that “presuppositionlessness and objectivity are impossible.” In fact, “so much study and reflection on the subject is bound up with it that no person can possibly do it alone. That takes centuries.” This is why the Spirit guides the church as a body and not just a collection of assorted individuals. “Whoever isolates himself from the church, i.e., Christianity as a whole, from the history of dogma in its entirety, loses the truth of the Christian faith.” God has put us into a body, the church— for our worship is not a solo but a chorus of praise (see 1 Cor 14: 26).

That is not quiet true, the "church" Jesus speaks of is not one made by the hands of men it is a spiritual church made up of believers, not those that call themselves "christians". Jesus sent men the Holy Spirit to lead us and teach us the truth so that we would not have to rely on mens doctrines or "lean on there own understanding:. God is always right, Jesus is always right, teh Holy Spirit can only be right because He can only speak that which He is told. Mens church is no gurantee of any truth just look at all teh denomination s based on there interpretation of teh bible.

 

[bbyrd009]

amen. a new believer is encouraged to do just what Paul did, which is read for themselves, with the Spirit as their guide, and purposely avoid any other Apostles for about 3 years so as to not accidentally be "doctrined" by someone whose charisma may bias you.

 

[justaname]

That is not quiet true, the "church" Jesus speaks of is not one made by the hands of men it is a spiritual church made up of believers, not those that call themselves "christians". Jesus sent men the Holy Spirit to lead us and teach us the truth so that we would not have to rely on mens doctrines or "lean on there own understanding:. God is always right, Jesus is always right, teh Holy Spirit can only be right because He can only speak that which He is told. Mens church is no gurantee of any truth just look at all teh denomination s based on there interpretation of teh bible.

Just a few things to note from the quote I posted perhaps you missed:

God’s Spirit has guided the church through the ages as it has sought to rightly understand that Word.

they often mistreated God’s holy Word by isolating it from the body of Christ and ignoring the insights of others.

This is why the Spirit guides the church as a body and not just a collection of assorted individuals.

Whoever isolates himself from the church, i.e., Christianity as a whole, from the history of dogma in its entirety, loses the truth of the Christian faith.” God has put us into a body, the church— for our worship is not a solo but a chorus of praise (see 1 Cor 14: 26).

amen. a new believer is encouraged to do just what Paul did, which is read for themselves, with the Spirit as their guide, and purposely avoid any other Apostles for about 3 years so as to not accidentally be "doctrined" by someone whose charisma may bias you.

Really? Do you have Scriptural support for this? I have a load of Scripture telling of the opposite...

Titus 2
Hebrews 10:25
Ephesians 4:12
Romas 14:19
1 Thessalonians 5:11
Colossians 2:7
1 Timothy 4:12
1 Peter 5:5-9

 

[bbyrd009]

yes, i have Paul's account for that, he purposely avoided the other Apostles for 3 years, and wrote a whole chapter about it, which of course you never hear a sermon on, but whaddya gonnado, right? I'd say don't worry too much, no one does it that way, anyway, that i'm aware of; and those that see, at some point see. And we do also have Scriptures that admonish one to study with the Spirit, so that the mind is not tempted to engage...

it is the Spirit that leads us into all truth after all, right.

Titus 2 is about teaching, not learning; it's for teachers, iow.

Hebrews 10:25 is a call to not abandon gathering together, not about reading the Book, and no one ever said to go to some mortgaged building where some guy has signed a Contract for Jesus, and give him your money, too, lol.

Eph 4:12 is about the true Church, and has nothing to do with reading the Book for yourself, not even mentioning that it should be understood in the context of Paul's "I know as soon as i leave, the wolves will come in and take over," which has, of course happened, long time ago.

and etc. Don't worry, your

501 (6)
c3 (6), with the
1023 (6) (the form your apostate pastor uses to claim 501 c3 benefits)
is prolly still safe for now.

if there's anything actually relevant in the other verses,
just mention it and we'll see in the morning, ok? ty
fought all the foo i can for today, g'night

and ps, i'm not putting those people down, ok, everyone starts from there, right?
God uses imperfect people, no prob. Just, at some point, you learn to run from hypocrites, that's all.

and who here knows anyone who freely admits to being a hypocrite, right?

i am a hypocrite, however; so see what you will see.

 

[mjrhealth]

Have you not read

1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Tan what was it Jesus said to teh disciples

Mar 10:42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
Mar 10:43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
Mar 10:44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

And what have men done apointed men to rule over them,

And for teh Holy Spirit

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Or

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Or

Joh_10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh_10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Joh_10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Joh_10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

We have but one head who has apointed us a teacher, rejected of men so they can hold on to there

Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

 

[justaname]

yes, i have Paul's account for that, he purposely avoided the other Apostles for 3 years, and wrote a whole chapter about it, which of course you never hear a sermon on, but whaddya gonnado, right? I'd say don't worry too much, no one does it that way, anyway, that i'm aware of; and those that see, at some point see. And we do also have Scriptures that admonish one to study with the Spirit, so that the mind is not tempted to engage...

it is the Spirit that leads us into all truth after all, right.

Titus 2 is about teaching, not learning; it's for teachers, iow.

Hebrews 10:25 is a call to not abandon gathering together, not about reading the Book, and no one ever said to go to some mortgaged building where some guy has signed a Contract for Jesus, and give him your money, too, lol.

Eph 4:12 is about the true Church, and has nothing to do with reading the Book for yourself, not even mentioning that it should be understood in the context of Paul's "I know as soon as i leave, the wolves will come in and take over," which has, of course happened, long time ago.

and etc. Don't worry, your

501 (6)
c3 (6), with the
1023 (6) (the form your apostate pastor uses to claim 501 c3 benefits)
is prolly still safe for now.

if there's anything actually relevant in the other verses,
just mention it and we'll see in the morning, ok? ty
fought all the foo i can for today, g'night

and ps, i'm not putting those people down, ok, everyone starts from there, right?
God uses imperfect people, no prob. Just, at some point, you learn to run from hypocrites, that's all.

and who here knows anyone who freely admits to being a hypocrite, right?

i am a hypocrite, however; so see what you will see.

The argument about Titus is absurd. The older teach the younger.

Are you arguing the younger should be taught to flee the older's teaching and solace?

How about the Hebrews passage...should young believers forsake assembly then? Part of the assembly purpose is for edifying the body, for teaching and preaching the Scriptures. Should they put their fingers in their ears and say "La, La, La, La, I'm not listening" at the Scripture teaching point?

So then about Paul...

15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
16 was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. - Galatians 1:15-17

His ministry was to preach Jesus among the Gentiles, different than the ministry of the apostles in Jerusalem at the time. This is the emphasis he is making. And Paul explicitly expresses his point here. God had Paul set apart for a specific plan and purpose.

1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me.
2 I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain.
3 But even Titus, who was with me, was not forced to be circumcised, though he was a Greek.
4 Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in-who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery-
5 to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)-those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. - Galatians 2:1-6

Paul is emphasizing the point that the gospel he preached was directly from God, not influenced by the Jews in any way. The Galatians were being influenced by people telling them they had to follow the Law. Paul is arguing against them just as he argued against the Jews in Jerusalem. Here is the key passage:

4 Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in-who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery-
5 to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you. - Galatians 2:4-5

The reason for Paul remaining separate was for him to have direct opposition against those who secretly crept in to spy on freedom in Christ.

Then Look though to see in verse 2 Paul was coming back to Jerusalem to make sure his running was not in vain. Paul wanted to verify and qualify his ministry with other believers. He didn't set off to do everything solo.

Then remember Paul was already studied and taught in the Scriptures where he was primed to understand they presented the Messiah and Jesus as that Messiah. God selected Paul with all his prior knowledge of the Scriptures for a specific ministry at a specific point in time. Not all new believers are to follow this early pattern of Paul's fulfillment. Believers in this day and age can and do benefit from having a teacher of the Scriptures in their early years of conversion. Especially those who have no prior knowledge of the Scriptures. Jesus' commission is to go and make disciples. Do you know what it means to disciple someone? How can you disciple someone you are not allowed to teach the Scriptures for three years?

Paul did not set the pattern for new believers.

 

[justaname]

Have you not read

1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Tan what was it Jesus said to teh disciples

Mar 10:42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
Mar 10:43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
Mar 10:44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

And what have men done apointed men to rule over them,

And for teh Holy Spirit

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Or

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Or

Joh_10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh_10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Joh_10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Joh_10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

We have but one head who has apointed us a teacher, rejected of men so they can hold on to there

Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Here your own argument style works against you. Then why are you trying to teach me? Why are you trying to "lord it over" me?

Because you believe the Holy Spirit is teaching you the truth, yet from your position you should never share that truth with anyone...impractical.

The Holy Spirit can and does work with all He indwells. This means He can be working from inside me to tell you something right now.

 

[bbyrd009]

Here your own argument style works against you. Then why are you trying to teach me? Why are you trying to "lord it over" me?

Because you believe the Holy Spirit is teaching you the truth, yet from your position you should never share that truth with anyone...impractical.

The Holy Spirit can and does work with all He indwells. This means He can be working from inside me to tell you something right now.

amen. you make good points. I didn't mean to imply to never talk to people about what you read; but rather to avoid putting yourself in a position where you might be unduly influenced by someone with charisma when you have not yet even formed your foundation in Christ. See, there is a sense in which i cannot Lord it over you, in that way; i'm just some faceless voice in the net, like you, and we are thus free to learn what we are prepared to learn, what resonates with us at that moment, and hopefully just leave the rest there for someone else who needs whatever it is, right then.

We even have a direct reference to how to read the Book, led by the Spirit; I just haven't read it in a while, and the keywords are eluding me at the moment. Book, study didn't work, last night, but it should come to me today. But of course any new concept is going to come across as challenging, to the old concept. Changing your mind is hard. But the hardest is when you have been convinced that you no longer need to change your mind, right? How do you learn something you already know? But I've spent 20 years pulling tares, not tryna do that anymore.

And don't get me wrong, i encourage people to find their Right Pastor, and absorb their lesson, and be ready for the Breath to tell you when it's time to move on. And i've studied under a bunch, and most of them had signed Contracts for Jesus, too. Doesn't mean they have no truth to teach, or that they don't have a good heart. All are deceived, right? So that means i am, too, and i better not forget it. Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, iow.

So at the time, maybe i just would not have listened to someone who understood Who says he knows does not yet know as he ought, that would have been, like, speaking in tongues to me back then, when i sought a pastor who knew, and who could give me unqualified assurances. I needed to read water (grape juice) back then, and so i got a Right Pastor who taught me grape juice. And thank God for him.

And if one doesn't ever seek any more than grape juice, well then grape juice is what they keep drinking. The veil is a mostly self-inflicted thing. Let's admit, it is not comfortable to discuss Paul's gurgling and cooing like a baby, right after a good ol' fashioned Pentecostal tongues service; or dive into the beginning or middle of 1Cor3 on a thread about resting, when you're tryna assure people that all they have to do is say some words, make a little declaration of intent, and then voila you're saved, oncesavedalwayssaved, now just sit here and wait for the Rapture.

So, the question either gets asked at some point, or it does not, at what point does the teacher stop teaching--what he obviously does not know--and start reinforcing his own opinion, reassured with every new notch he can put in his column, every addition to the offering plate? But if i am perceived to be condemning anyone, i must remember that i started just that way, and after all, who condemns little children for believing that babies come from mommy eating a brownie, and growing a baby in her tummy? God does not. I don't, either.

You seek what you find, and you reap what you sow. Doesn't get any better than that, imo. Distilled wine (blood) is right there in the Book, anytime anyone is ready, and they put down the broom, and pick up a shovel. Just expect to get accused of being drunk at the third hour, which by that point you have already counted the cost, anyway, already met Him in the air, like Paul did, grasped that the Book fillets people for you, joints separated from marrow, just as you are filleted for them...you are telling me something, right now; and someone else will come read your post, after a search, in ten years, maybe, who knows, and they'll read something different, that they also needed, from you post.

and that's as far as i've gotten, i dunno if you get an RP to teach you to read distilled wine or not? Seems like you would, huh. Maybe that seek is a real toughie or something, i dunno.