rev.13 1

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popeye

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Jul 12, 2011
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i stood upon the begining of time and saw a beast rise up out of time having 7 nations and 10 [ horns] kings and upon the nations the name of blasphemy. :rolleyes:
So - correct me if I'm wrong - you're saying the sand is the same as sand you'd find in an hourglass? Therefore, the sand represents time? And you're also saying that the "7 heads" of the dragon are 7 nations? Where do the "crowns" come into play in your interpretation?

Explain to me the discrepancy between the 7 crowns of Rev 12:3 vs the 10 crowns of Rev 13:1.
 

BibleScribe

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Jun 17, 2011
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i stood upon the begining of time and saw a beast rise up out of time having 7 nations and 10 [ horns] kings and upon the nations the name of blasphemy. :rolleyes:


Hi Gregg,

Pardon me for my ignorance, but I thought Kings were the heads of nations. Thus if there were 7 nations, there'd be 7 kings, -- or 10 nations and 10 kings. But to have either 7 nations and 10 kings, or 10 nations and 7 kings, is a bit of untruth.


Do you suppose there should be a different answer?





To All,

Please allow that during the Roman Empire from 46 - 31 B.C., both Julius Caesar and Marcus Antonius co-ruled. To my knowledge, this is the only time when TWO ~Kings~ co-existed in any major empire.




BibleScribe
 

BibleScribe

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Jun 17, 2011
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Hi All,

Ummmmmm, world powers are not created in a day. As such, we know the seven, we know the three, and we know the ten. Do you not know these?



BibleScribe
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Mar 8, 2011
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and i stood upon the sand of the sea. who can tell me what this means? :rolleyes: just those few words not all of the verse. then i'll know who understands. :eek:

I have observed that some translations say ....

And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore
vs:
And I stood upon the sand of the sea
vs
And he stood upon the sand of the sea.

Looks like three different versions on "who" is standing on the sand.

Is this what you were inquiring about Gregg ?? thanks.
 

veteran

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Gregg...Your statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Please elaborate and explain....


Veteran- Could you explain your interpretation as well. What do you mean by "a border "?


The northern border of ancient Israel was at the river Euphrates. Babylon lay north of that river Euphrates.

Gen 15:18-21
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
KJV

God commanded Israel to destroy specifically the nations of Canaan that dwelt within that land.

King Cyrus, a Gentile whom God called His "anointed" in Isaiah 45, dried up a portion of the Euphrates in order to conquer the city of Babylon. Cyrus represents a pattern for Christ (The Anointed One) coming to destroy endtime Babylon.

Our Heavenly Father through His OT prophets gave this idea of an overflowing river in the sense of Satan's host coming to destroy.

Isa 59:19-20
19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and His glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
(KJV)

Jer 46:6-7
6 Let not the swift flee away, nor the mighty man escape; they shall stumble, and fall toward the north by the river Euphrates.
7 Who is this that cometh up as a flood, whose waters are moved as the rivers?
(KJV)

See how God used that river idea as a symbolic border between His people and Satan's host coming to destroy like a flood overruns a river?


Dan 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(KJV)

God gave that symbol in that Dan.9 verse, for those who were paying attention. It's a prophetic time-marker for the end also.


Rev 12:15
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
(KJV)

The Rev.12 parallel to that flood symbol shows us the endtime flood is especially about what comes out of the serpent's mouth. What comes out of one's mouth?

Here's where Christ's enemies coming as an overflowing flood is pointed to for the end of this world...

Rev 9:14-16
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
(KJV)

The 6th Vial drying up of the river Euphrates is especially about the battle at Meggido (Armageddon) south of the Euphrates on the last day of this world...

Rev 16:12
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
(KJV)

So basically, John standing on the shore next to waters is symbolic of the border between God's people and Satan's host. Per Christ's story of the Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16, there exists a border in Paradise also, separating God's people from the wicked. In Rev.22:14-15, after Christ's return, the gates of the Holy City represent that symbolic border between God's people and the wicked for the Millennium time. Our Lord Jesus in Matt.25 said when He comes, He will separate His sheep from the goats. Ezekiel 44 reveals Christ's elect priests (Zadok - The Just) will be allowed to cross over that separation for the sake of a relative, but must go through a period of cleansing before being allowed to come near Christ again. So, the idea of a border of separation between the just and the unjust is a pretty big symbolic metaphor given throughout God's Word.

Oh yeah, the army of Gog and Magog and Tubal of Ezekiel 38-39 specifically come out of the northern quarters upon Israel on the last day.


 

gregg

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Oct 16, 2009
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arab
So - correct me if I'm wrong - you're saying the sand is the same as sand you'd find in an hourglass? Therefore, the sand represents time? And you're also saying that the "7 heads" of the dragon are 7 nations? Where do the "crowns" come into play in your interpretation?
sand represents begining-sea represents time :rolleyes: keep in mind one day there will be no more sea rev,21-1 :rolleyes: rev,10-6 no time
Explain to me the discrepancy between the 7 crowns of Rev 12:3 vs the 10 crowns of Rev 13:1.
rev,12 the crowns are on the head, not horns as in rev 13.-two different sets of kings :D
 

veteran

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If we're on the meaning of the ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns, Jesus explained the meaning of those symbols in Rev.17. His explanation of those symbols override any supposition by man.
 

gregg

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arab
If we're on the meaning of the ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns, Jesus explained the meaning of those symbols in Rev.17. His explanation of those symbols override any supposition by man.
no were not, :rolleyes: at least i'm not
 

popeye

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Jul 12, 2011
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If we're on the meaning of the ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns, Jesus explained the meaning of those symbols in Rev.17. His explanation of those symbols override any supposition by man.
You mean Jesus explained the meanings as it applied to that particular prophecy. Many times in scripture, a single prophecy has multiple fulfillments.
 

goodshepard55

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Well gregg....which version are you asking...

NKJV:
13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.

NIV:
13:1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

KJV:
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

NRSV:
13:1 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads; and on its horns were ten diadems, and on its heads were blasphemous names.

NASB:
13:1 And he stood on the sand of the seashore. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names.

NASC:
13:1 . . histaymi:G2476 . . ammos:G285 . . thalassa:G2281 . . horaw:G3708 . thayrion:G2342 anabainw:G305 . . . . thalassa:G2281 echw:G2192 deka:G1176 keras:G2768 . hepta:G2033 kephalay:G2776 . . . keras:G2768 . deka:G1176 diadayma:G1238 . . . kephalay:G2776 . blasphaymia:G988 onoma:G3686

NNAS
13:1 And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names.

Strong's
13:1 . . histemi:G2476 . . ammos:G285 . . thalassa:G2281 . eido:G1492 . therion:G2342 anabaino:G305 . . . . thalassa:G2281 echo:G2192 hepta:G2033 kephale:G2776 . deka:G1176 keras:G2768 . . . keras:G2768 deka:G1176 diadema:G1238 . . . kephale:G2776 . onoma:G3686 . blasphemia:G988
 

ronmorgen

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Apr 5, 2011
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Rev 13:1
Me paré sobre la arena del mar, y vi subir del mar una bestia que tenía siete cabezas y diez cuernos; y en sus cuernos diez diademas; y sobre sus cabezas, un nombre blasfemo.
RVR Sociedades Biblicas en América Latina.)
 

popeye

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Jul 12, 2011
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The northern border of ancient Israel was at the river Euphrates. Babylon lay north of that river Euphrates.

Gen 15:18-21

God commanded Israel to destroy specifically the nations of Canaan that dwelt within that land.

King Cyrus, a Gentile whom God called His "anointed" in Isaiah 45, dried up a portion of the Euphrates in order to conquer the city of Babylon. Cyrus represents a pattern for Christ (The Anointed One) coming to destroy endtime Babylon.

Our Heavenly Father through His OT prophets gave this idea of an overflowing river in the sense of Satan's host coming to destroy.

Isa 59:19-20
Jer 46:6-7

See how God used that river idea as a symbolic border between His people and Satan's host coming to destroy like a flood overruns a river?


Dan 9:26

God gave that symbol in that Dan.9 verse, for those who were paying attention. It's a prophetic time-marker for the end also.


Rev 12:15

The Rev.12 parallel to that flood symbol shows us the endtime flood is especially about what comes out of the serpent's mouth. What comes out of one's mouth?

Here's where Christ's enemies coming as an overflowing flood is pointed to for the end of this world...

Rev 9:14-16

The 6th Vial drying up of the river Euphrates is especially about the battle at Meggido (Armageddon) south of the Euphrates on the last day of this world...

Rev 16:12


So basically, John standing on the shore next to waters is symbolic of the border between God's people and Satan's host. Per Christ's story of the Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16, there exists a border in Paradise also, separating God's people from the wicked. In Rev.22:14-15, after Christ's return, the gates of the Holy City represent that symbolic border between God's people and the wicked for the Millennium time. Our Lord Jesus in Matt.25 said when He comes, He will separate His sheep from the goats. Ezekiel 44 reveals Christ's elect priests (Zadok - The Just) will be allowed to cross over that separation for the sake of a relative, but must go through a period of cleansing before being allowed to come near Christ again. So, the idea of a border of separation between the just and the unjust is a pretty big symbolic metaphor given throughout God's Word.

Oh yeah, the army of Gog and Magog and Tubal of Ezekiel 38-39 specifically come out of the northern quarters upon Israel on the last day.


I see how you might think that the sand and sea intersection may very well be a "border" between Satan and God's people. If this is true, explain Rev 10:2, when the angel stands upon both the earth AND the sea, simultaneously.

Frankly, veteran, I think the interpretation might be simpler than some may think. I believe both the sand and the sea represents peoples of the world. And any "flood" that is used by God in scripture may very well mean "an overflowing number of people" in an attack on another group or nation of people. We could take the "flood" designation a little further even, and interpret that a "flood" in prophetic scripture means a large army of soldiers ( people ) invading another people or nation.

A flood, therefore, may be interpreted as an armed invasion of another country, in blitzkrieg ( rapid ) fashion.
This is what I believe Rev 12:15 & 16 is describing. And I also believe the description there is outlining an event that has already been detailed in OT scripture. In my opinion, Rev 12:15 & 16 is none other than another reference to the Gog / Magog invasion of Israel, and it will be taking place shortly before the rise of the AC, as it's description in verses 15 & 16 precedes verse 17 ( Rev 12:17 ) and 13:1. Indeed, I believe Rev 12: 15 & 16 also describes an earthquake that destroys the "flood" through resultant fissures in the earth's crust, which literally SWALLOWS that invading army, just as described in Ezk 38 & 39.

But, hey...it's just an idle thought of mine!
 

veteran

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I see how you might think that the sand and sea intersection may very well be a "border" between Satan and God's people. If this is true, explain Rev 10:2, when the angel stands upon both the earth AND the sea, simultaneously.

What happens in those following Rev.10:3-7 verses? and with the seven thunders? and the mystery of God being finished with that? Would that represent pre-judgment upon Babylon, or post-judgment of Babylon?


Frankly, veteran, I think the interpretation might be simpler than some may think. I believe both the sand and the sea represents peoples of the world. And any "flood" that is used by God in scripture may very well mean "an overflowing number of people" in an attack on another group or nation of people. We could take the "flood" designation a little further even, and interpret that a "flood" in prophetic scripture means a large army of soldiers ( people ) invading another people or nation.

I realize what you mean. Our Lord Jesus told John in Rev.17:15 those "waters" (sea) do represent peoples, nations, tongues, and multitudes. And isn't that what the endtime Babylon about? Our Lord Jesus compared that first beast out of the 'sea' to the historical beast kingdoms of Dan.7 in the Rev.13:2 verse.

God using the 'flood' idea as a symbolic metaphor is very specific in His Word. Pretty good attention getter too for the times of the prophets, since I'm sure they well remembered the flood of Noah's day that our LORD brought upon the wicked. Thus our Lord Jesus used it again for the last days ("Noe"), to get OUR attention too. How I gave it is how God gave it through His prophets. It would make a good deeper Bible study for those who haven't discovered it yet. I mean, our Lord mentioning a flood of waters out of the 'mouth' of the serpent-dragon is a pretty important Message about the last days.



A flood, therefore, may be interpreted as an armed invasion of another country, in blitzkrieg ( rapid ) fashion.
This is what I believe Rev 12:15 & 16 is describing. And I also believe the description there is outlining an event that has already been detailed in OT scripture. In my opinion, Rev 12:15 & 16 is none other than another reference to the Gog / Magog invasion of Israel, and it will be taking place shortly before the rise of the AC, as it's description in verses 15 & 16 precedes verse 17 ( Rev 12:17 ) and 13:1. Indeed, I believe Rev 12: 15 & 16 also describes an earthquake that destroys the "flood" through resultant fissures in the earth's crust, which literally SWALLOWS that invading army, just as described in Ezk 38 & 39.

But, hey...it's just an idle thought of mine!

My intention is to stay close to how God used those metaphors in His Word, like the Scriptures I quoted. Euphrates was to be a real border between His people and His enemies. Thus a river, or waters, He has used to represent a 'border' between His servants and the wicked. I think that's important, since our Lord Jesus used Babylon as a symbol for His enemies in Revelation about the last days.


 

popeye

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What happens in those following Rev.10:3-7 verses? and with the seven thunders? and the mystery of God being finished with that? Would that represent pre-judgment upon Babylon, or post-judgment of Babylon?

My intention is to stay close to how God used those metaphors in His Word, like the Scriptures I quoted. Euphrates was to be a real border between His people and His enemies. Thus a river, or waters, He has used to represent a 'border' between His servants and the wicked. I think that's important, since our Lord Jesus used Babylon as a symbol for His enemies in Revelation about the last days.


I respect and accept your interpretation of the water and sand intersection as a "border". Lord knows you've provided ample scriptural evidence to back-up your belief. Your interpretation is noted with me, Vet.

I emboldened your first set of questions and ask you: are you asking me to give you my "take" on Rev 10?
 

veteran

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I respect and accept your interpretation of the water and sand intersection as a "border". Lord knows you've provided ample scriptural evidence to back-up your belief. Your interpretation is noted with me, Vet.

I emboldened your first set of questions and ask you: are you asking me to give you my "take" on Rev 10?

No need to go deeper brother if you understood my reply about Rev.10.