Rev 3.10 PreTrib or PostTrib

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Spiritual Israelite

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The day of God is when this present earth and its heavens will be destroyed. The day of God is one segment of the everlasting day of the Lord.
LOL. Total nonsense. Peter said that the day of the Lord is when this present earth and heavens will be destroyed, so that means the day of the Lord and the day of God are the same thing.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

When we look at what Paul said about this event, it's clear that the heavens and earth will be destroyed immediately upon the arrival of the day of the Lord because, like Peter, he said the day of the Lord will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night and will bring "sudden destruction" from which those in spiritual darkness "shall not escape".

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

You have the "sudden destruction", which Peter says will be by fire, occurring long after the day of the Lord arrives, which is not at all what Peter and Paul taught. They taught that the destruction will come unexpectedly when the day of the Lord arrives and will occur right then and it will be "sudden". You try to change a "sudden" event into an event that lasts 1,000+ years, which is completely ridiculous.
 
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Scott Downey

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The day of God is when this present earth and its heavens will be destroyed. The day of God is one segment of the everlasting day of the Lord.

The new heavens and a new earth of Revelation 21 will be after the GWT judgment.

View attachment 63326
Well, a sudden destruction does not take a week or years.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Well, a sudden destruction does not take a week or years.
Right. But, he even takes it well beyond that. He has the day of the Lord lasting forever instead of being the sudden event that Paul said it will be.

sudden (adjective): occurring or done quickly and unexpectedly or without warning.

He also doesn't have that "sudden destruction" occurring until long after the day of the Lord first arrives, which obviously contradicts what Paul and Peter taught.
 

CadyandZoe

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Can't remember who wrote this, it is just in my notes

The text of Rev 3:10 reads: o{ti ejthvrhsa" toVn lovgon th'" uJpomonh'" mou, kajgwv se thrhvsw ejk th'" w{ra" tou' peirasmou' th'" mellouvsh" e[rcesqai ejpiV th'" oijkoumevnh" o{lh" peiravsai touV" katoikou'nta" ejpiV th'" gh'" (“Because you have kept the word of my perseverance, I also shall keep you from the hour of testing which is about to come upon the whole inhabited world to test those who dwell upon the earth”). “Probably the most debated verse in the whole discussion about the time of the Church’s rapture is Revelation 3:10,” writes Robert Gundry in The Church and the Tribulation (p. 54). He, as well as many other posttribulationists, agrees that the verse is speaking about the promise of the rapture given to true believers (pp. 54-61; note also Rev 3:13 which applies this specific promise to the Philadelphian Christians to the “churches”).

The key issue in the debate between pretribulationists and posttribulationists is the temporal force of thrhvsw ek (“I will keep [you] out of”). Gundry believes that this refers to a posttribulational emergence of the saints: “As it is, ek lays all the emphasis on emergence, in this verse on the final, victorious outcome of the keeping-guarding” (ibid., p. 57). He bases his argument of a posttribulational rapture here squarely on grammar, stating, among other reasons: (1) “Essentially, ek, a preposition of motion concerning thought or physical direction, means out from within” (ibid., p. 55); and (2) “the preposition ek appears in John’s writings approximately 336 times, far more often than in the writings of any other NT author. There is not a single instance where the primary thought of emergence, or origin, cannot fit, indeed, does not best fit the thought of the context [italics mine]” (ibid., p. 57).

Such argumentation, however, though impressive at first glance, is in reality both too simplistic and a case of grammatical “tunnel vision.”

First, it is too simplistic in that Gundry argues that in John’s writings the primary thought of emergence or origin best fits every instance of ek. John Beverage, in his master’s thesis (“The Preposition ek in Johannine Literature,” Th.M. thesis, Dallas Seminary, 1953) has demonstrated that such is not the case. (Although it will certainly be granted that ejk normally has the force of origin or emergence, to suggest that this is the foremost idea in every Johannine instance is an overstatement. Note, for example, John 9:24; Rev 2:10; 3:9. Beverage breaks down the Johannine usage of ejk as follows: [1] to denote place or position, [2] to denote separation, [3] to denote origin, [4] to denote material or mass from which something is made or derived, [5] to denote cause, occasion, or instrument, [6] to denote the partitive use, and [7] to denote time.) (Note: It should be pointed out, however, that although Gundry is too simplistic in this first argument, even if he were entirely correct, the argument is quite beside the point and, in fact, irrelevant to the interpretation of Rev 3:10, as a critique of Gundry’s second argument will seek to demonstrate.)

Second, it is a case of semantic myopia in that by focusing only on the usage of ek, Gundry has overlooked the combined force of the whole construction. He claims that ek is essentially “a preposition of motion” (p. 55). Although this is generally true, if ejk is related to a noun or is governed by a non-motion verb (such as threvw), it will not necessarily imply motion. (By way of analogy, this can be seen with eij"—the directional opposite of ejk. eij" generally has the meaning of movement into from without. However, when it is used with a static verb, such as threvw, kavqhmai, eijmi, etc., the idea of motion is negated by the static nature of the verb [cf. for example, threvw eij" in Acts 25:4; kavqhmai eij" in Mark 13:3; and eijmi eij" in John 1:18].)1 The fact, then, that threvw, rather than a motion verb such as swv/zw, is used with ejk in Rev 3:10 argues against Gundry’s position on this text.2 By way of illustration, our idiom “Keep out of the reach of children” has exactly the same force to it as does the Greek threvw ek. Yet, when such instructions are printed on a bottle of medicine, a parent recognizes that he or she is not to let the medicine get into the reach of children. That is, the parent is to keep it in a position that is out of their reach. If the medicine bottle had said, “Take out of the reach of children” the implication would be entirely different (viz., it would presume that the bottle was already within the reach of children).

In summary, the posttribulational position in Rev 3:10, as articulated by Gundry, seems unlikely because (1) it assumes a simplistic (and etymological) force for the preposition ejk, and (2) it does not take into account the force of the total construction of verb + preposition. In order for John to have taught a posttribulational rapture in this verse, he would have had to change one of two elements: (1) either the verb (from a static verb to a verb of motion such swv/zw or lambavnw) or, (2) the preposition (from ek to diav [+ the genitive] or en).3

Conclusion

Does this therefore demonstrate a pretribulational rapture beyond any doubt? Of course not. For one thing, John 17:15 (the only precise grammatico-lexical parallel to Rev 3:10) needs to be wrestled with (something that has been done in the literature well enough). And the fact that there are no other exact parallels in biblical Greek makes for less than an iron-clad argument. For another, whether ‘the hour of tribulation’ refers to the actual time of the tribulation (though probable) needs to be established beyond all doubt. Further, we have not really addressed much contextually (including the parallel with ‘because you have kept the word’). Nevertheless, the basic point of this brief essay is to show that the overly facile attempt at solving this conundrum on the basis of grammar is inadequate. In the least, the grammatical argument is not on the side of posttribulationism, in spite of Gundry’s certitude.



1 Cf. also Wallace, Exegetical Syntax, “Introduction to Prepositions: Motion, State, Prepositions, and Verbs” wherein it is noted that “Stative verbs override the transitive force of prepositions. Almost always, when a stative verb is used with a transitive preposition, the preposition’s natural force is neutralized; all that remains is a stative idea.”
The exegetical answer is to avoid deciding doctrine based on a single verse taken out of context. Since Revelation chapter 3 has very little context, the issue must be decided outside of the text at hand, and the search for the answer must be elsewhere.

Revelation chapter 3 must answer several prior questions, including whether the passage allegorically describes the church throughout its history or speaks directly and specifically to a historical church body. If, for instance, John is speaking to a local congregation, then we know that he did not intend to answer our question of pre- post- tribulation.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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The exegetical answer is to avoid deciding doctrine based on a single verse taken out of context. Since Revelation chapter 3 has very little context, the issue must be decided outside of the text at hand, and the search for the answer must be elsewhere.

Revelation chapter 3 must answer several prior questions, including whether the passage allegorically describes the church throughout its history or speaks directly and specifically to a historical church body. If, for instance, John is speaking to a local congregation, then we know that he did not intend to answer our question of pre- post- tribulation.
Agree. It's not reasonable at all to suggest that "the hour of trial" that Jesus talked about couldn't have at least potentially affected the first century church in Philadelphia (believed to have been located in what is now modern day Turkey) that Jesus was addressing there. Otherwise, He wouldn't have told them that He would keep them from it. It's not clear if He was saying that they would be alive when the hour of trial came or not. It could be that He was telling them that He would keep them from it if they were alive when the hour of trial came without Him saying that they for sure would be alive when it came while implying that it was coming soon.

But, the fact of the matter is that Jesus was not specific about what exactly "the hour of trial" is or was and He was not specific about when it would occur. So, we can only speculate about that. We can't base our doctrines on vague verses like that one which are missing specific details. We need to base our doctrine on explicit scriptures as much as possible and then use that doctrinal foundation to help try to interpret more difficult verses or passages like this one.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Rev 3:10
(10) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

A couple of things first...Look at the example in Mark:

Mr 14:41
(41) And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Coming the third time signifies the purpose (and will) of God is complete. The number three signifies purpose (e.g., 3 wise men, 3 bearing record in heaven 1st John 5:7; Paul blinded 3 days Acts 9:9; praying 3 times concerning thorn in the flesh 2nd Corinthians 12:8; 3 times God speaks of the unclean Acts 10:16; 3 agreeing on earth Matthew 18:19; etc.) Christ coming the 3rd time signifies Christ's purpose is complete, all Israel is sealed. In the spiritual example, this mirrors the end time when Christ is again betrayed into the hands of sinners. The third hour, the hour of darkness. The disciples' sleeping signifies their sadness by Christ's Words he must depart. Just as he is departed from the church during the end times.

2nd Thessalonians 2:7
  • "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."
That word translated "way" means midst or middle. He that restrains (letteth) sin in the church is the Spirit of Christ, and when it is taken out of the midst, there are no more works of Christ going on therein. The man of sin (false prophets and christs) then rules in the Holy Temple smothering, silencing, destroying. The Believers cannot work, therefore, the words of Christ are that they take their rest because it is enough (the sealing is finished). The hour of the church's fall is here. Remember what Christ said to His disciples before He was betrayed and killed:

John 9:4
  • "I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work."
This prophesying the hour of darkness, His death, when His earthly ministry was over and the Disciples abandoned him (because no man could help)? Where there was darkness over the land for 3 hours" signifying God's purpose before He gave up the ghost. Again, the same principle. It is finished, the task had been accomplished in a work no man could do. The Disciples were saddened by Christ's word about His coming death and they disputed this should NOT happen because they would fight for Him. But no man could. The disciples sleeping for sorrow illustrates that is the spiritual reason for their sleep. As it will be in the Church's sleep at the end times. The anguish of the words of Christ concerning what "must" be. For example in Revelation 10:10 that you can check into.

Luke 22:45
  • "And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,"
They were sleeping because they were saddened by Christ's words in the reality of the state of things. They eschewed evil and they are grieved by the wickedness Christ spoke of, and as a result, they have neglected to "watch" as they were commanded. This is also demonstrated in the elect believers in the parable of the 10 virgins. They are the five virgins who though asleep, have sufficient oil to light their way. They had the Spirit of gladness, to ultimately rise up (Revelation 11:11) and reach their destination. Because by the grace of God, they possessed sufficient oil in their lamps.

Mt 25:1-12
  • "Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
  • And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
  • They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
  • But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
  • While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
  • And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
  • Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
  • And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
  • But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
  • And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
  • Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
  • But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
  • Watch therefore, for ye know nether the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."
It is the woke who watch, and they are told to do so because they do not know the hour of Christ's coming. It is at midnight, the hour of darkness, the hour of betrayal, the hour of temptation, the time when "the wise" all need to trim their lamps having been prepared and ready to go to the marriage. While the fools don't have sufficient oil to reach their destination. Thus God says, "I know you Not" and they will be shut out. The virgins signify the corporate church, and only five (the elect) are signified as the truly saved. The hour of temptation is the time of trail in the Church, start with the apostasy and the judgment of the church.

Now to the second point in next post...
 

TribulationSigns

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In order to understand exactly what the hour of temptation is about. Look at Revelation 8:1:

Rev 8:1
(1) And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

It's symbolic of the first half of the judgment of God upon His people who spiritually become as Babylon, which judgment is spoken of as coming in "one hour." There is silence first (eg. the killing of Two Witnesses), and then God pours out His judgment upon them. Again, much like with Israel where there was 400 (signifying testing) years of silence before the first coming of Christ and his judgment upon the Old Testament congregation. This hour of Judgment is broken down between the two witnesses killed and their call by God to come out of Babylon. Thus, the 1/2 hour represents the first half of that hour of trial. We are either faithful and kept from succumbing to it, or refuse to receive truth and remain to be judged of God over that hour. We will either be partaker with her in her sins, or come out of her that we won't be.

Revelation 3:10
  • "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Revelation 14:7-8
  • "Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
  • And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

Revelation 17:12
  • "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

Revelation 18:4-5
  • "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
  • For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."

Revelation 18:10
  • "Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."
This one hour where the Lord judges that unfaithful city (the church) compasses the 1/2 hour where the Elect are within her, and the another 1/2 where they have come out and she is left desolate until Christ returns.

Hope that helps.
 
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Davidpt

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Hi Marilyn,

You have a good point regarding 2Peter3:12, the destruction of this present earth and its heavens, as The Day of God.

2Peter3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

IOW, let's just ignore verse 10 in that same chapter. Let's just pretend that verse 12 is not meaning verse 10. Let's just pretend that the day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night per verse 10 is not the same day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night per 1 Thessalonians 5:2. Let's just just pretend that you and others like you are heeding what Paul warned about in 2 Thessalonians 2:3(let no many deceive you by any means) and let's just pretend that you and others like you are not the ones trying to deceive men by any means.
 

Davidpt

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Hi Marilyn,

You have a good point regarding 2Peter3:12, the destruction of this present earth and its heavens, as The Day of God.

2Peter3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

To take place In Revelation 20:11-12 at the time of the great white throne judgment....

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Both Amils and most Premils insist 2 Peter 3:10-12 is meaning Revelation 20:11. In Revelation 20:11 the Greek word for fled away is 'pheugo'. But where is that same Greek word also used in 2 Peter 3:10-12 anywhere?
 

Douggg

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IOW, let's just ignore verse 10 in that same chapter. Let's just pretend that verse 12 is not meaning verse 10.
Verse 12, the day of God, is the specific segment of the verse 10, the day of the Lord, when this present earth and its heaven will be destroyed.

The day of the Lord has no end. Once started, there will be segments to it.

Which one of these segments do you disagree with ?

1. The Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation - the day of the Lord begins, when His wrath will be poured out.

2. The abomination of desolation set up - and the great tribulation begins.

3. Jesus's second coming to end the great tribulation

4. Jesus's millennium rule on this present earth.

5. the destruction of this present earth and its heavens at the great white throne judgment.

6. eternity, which there will be the new heaven and new earth.

the day of the Lord.jpg
 
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Douggg

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Both Amils and most Premils insist 2 Peter 3:10-12 is meaning Revelation 20:11. In Revelation 20:11 the Greek word for fled away is 'pheugo'. But where is that same Greek word also used in 2 Peter 3:10-12 anywhere?
I don't see your point. After the great white throne judgement in Revelation 20, there is a new heaven and new earth in Revelation 21.
 

Davy

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Both Amils and most Premils insist 2 Peter 3:10-12 is meaning Revelation 20:11. In Revelation 20:11 the Greek word for fled away is 'pheugo'. But where is that same Greek word also used in 2 Peter 3:10-12 anywhere?

That's not true.

Premills do not assume 2 Peter 3:10 happens after Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20, which is what the timing of Rev.20:11 is.

Amill wrongly assumes 2 Peter 3:10 and... Rev.20:11 happen on the day of Christ's 2nd coming.


The Premill Order, Which is Post-tribulational:
1. day of Christ's 2nd coming, the "day of the Lord"; the 2 Peter 3:10 event.
2. Christ's Millennial "thousand years" reign over the unsaved nations with His "rod of iron."
3. Satan loosed one final time to tempt the nations to come up against the "camp of the saints" on earth.
4. God's fire burns up those who come against the "camp of the saints". This is a separate consuming fire event other than 2 Peter 3:10.
5. The unsaved, the abode of hell, Satan, and death, are cast into the "lake of fire" and are no more.
6. God's new heavens and a new earth comes.

And I must remind brethren - the 1st century A.D. Church fathers held to a Premill view, and the Pre-trib Rapture theory did not exist yet in their day. So those who try to associate Premill with a Pre-trib Rapture only do that out of ignorance, or as a ploy against the Premill position.
 
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WPM

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IOW, let's just ignore verse 10 in that same chapter. Let's just pretend that verse 12 is not meaning verse 10. Let's just pretend that the day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night per verse 10 is not the same day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night per 1 Thessalonians 5:2. Let's just just pretend that you and others like you are heeding what Paul warned about in 2 Thessalonians 2:3(let no many deceive you by any means) and let's just pretend that you and others like you are not the ones trying to deceive men by any means.
What are you talking about? This is incoherent gibberish.
 

WPM

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Both Amils and most Premils insist 2 Peter 3:10-12 is meaning Revelation 20:11.

That is not true. You consistently show that you have an ignorance of Amillennialism. But you also have an ignorant of what you believe also. Premils do not hold to this.

In Revelation 20:11 the Greek word for fled away is 'pheugo'. But where is that same Greek word also used in 2 Peter 3:10-12 anywhere?

Why do passages describing the same event have to have exact same Greek word in them? That is ridiculous. Whatever subject you study you will see that different Greek words are used to describe the same person, thing or event.

This is such an impotent argument, I feel I'm wasting quality time even addressing it.
 

Davidpt

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What are you talking about? This is incoherent gibberish.

Here's what I was basically saying to @Douggg in that post where I was using a bit of sarcasm to try and make my points. Keeping in mind, @Douggg is a Premil, not an Amil.

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I find it troubling that you're emphasizing 2 Peter 3:12 and connecting it to Revelation 20, but seem to be overlooking 2 Peter 3:10, which undeniably states that "the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night."

That same phrase is used in 1 Thessalonians 5:2, clearly referring to the beginning of the Day of the Lord, not its end.

If we read the text carefully, it seems that 2 Peter 3:10–12 is describing a single unfolding event—not two separate "days" thousands of years apart, where 1 Thessalonians 5:2 is meaning a thousand years earlier and that 2 Peter 3:10 is meaning a thousand years later.

That’s why I believe it's important not to separate verse 12 from verse 10 contextually. It risks distorting the sequence that Peter and Paul both outline, and might fall into the deception Paul warns about in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, where some will twist the timing of the Day of the Lord, thus attempt to deceive men by any means.
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Maybe I should have said this instead at the time, except I didn't. For all I know you likely see this as gibberish as well, regardless that I'm addressing a Premil here not an Amil. And if you still see it as gibberish it can only mean one thing since none of that is hard to follow. That you simply have it out for me no matter what, the fact I often oppose Amil.
 

Davy

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I find it troubling that you're emphasizing 2 Peter 3:12 and connecting it to Revelation 20, but seem to be overlooking 2 Peter 3:10, which undeniably states that "the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night."

Anyone who can read the Scriptures using common sense can see your error with following man's false Amill theories.

A.
2 Peter 3:10 = "day of the Lord" timing, last day of this present world when Jesus' 2nd coming happens.

B.
2 Peter 3:11 = same time as above, on the day of Christ's 2nd coming.

C.
2 Peter 3:12 = the Revelation 20:11 event of the new heavens and a new earth; only will happen after... Christ's future literal "thousand years" reign over the nations.


It's as easy as A, B, C's!
 

WPM

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Here's what I was basically saying to @Douggg in that post where I was using a bit of sarcasm to try and make my points. Keeping in mind, @Douggg is a Premil, not an Amil.

------
I find it troubling that you're emphasizing 2 Peter 3:12 and connecting it to Revelation 20, but seem to be overlooking 2 Peter 3:10, which undeniably states that "the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night."

That same phrase is used in 1 Thessalonians 5:2, clearly referring to the beginning of the Day of the Lord, not its end.

If we read the text carefully, it seems that 2 Peter 3:10–12 is describing a single unfolding event—not two separate "days" thousands of years apart, where 1 Thessalonians 5:2 is meaning a thousand years earlier and that 2 Peter 3:10 is meaning a thousand years later.

That’s why I believe it's important not to separate verse 12 from verse 10 contextually. It risks distorting the sequence that Peter and Paul both outline, and might fall into the deception Paul warns about in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, where some will twist the timing of the Day of the Lord, thus attempt to deceive men by any means.
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Maybe I should have said this instead at the time, except I didn't. For all I know you likely see this as gibberish as well, regardless that I'm addressing a Premil here not an Amil. And if you still see it as gibberish it can only mean one thing since none of that is hard to follow. That you simply have it out for me no matter what, the fact I often oppose Amil.

Relax. I was talking about your last post.
 

WPM

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Anyone who can read the Scriptures using common sense can see your error with following man's false Amill theories.

A.
2 Peter 3:10 = "day of the Lord" timing, last day of this present world when Jesus' 2nd coming happens.

B.
2 Peter 3:11 = same time as above, on the day of Christ's 2nd coming.

C.
2 Peter 3:12 = the Revelation 20:11 event of the new heavens and a new earth; only will happen after... Christ's future literal "thousand years" reign over the nations.


It's as easy as A, B, C's!

You are totally twisting Scripture to support your error. That is probably why you refuse to quote the actual text.

Revelation 20 is the beginning of the final recap in the book of Revelation and finishes at the second coming. You cannot see that recaps, that is why you do not understand Revelation 20.
 

KUWN

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Hi Douggg,

Actually, there are 3 `last Days` -

1. The Day of Christ - for building, maturing and catching away of the Body. (Phil. 1: 10)

2. The Day of the Lord (God Almighty in judgment) - bringing judgment upon the rebellious. (1 Thess. 5: 2 Joel 2: 1 & 2)

3. The Day of God - All delivered up to God. Eternity. (1 Cor. 15: 28 2 Peter 3: 12)
Number 2, the Day of the Lord, bringing judgment is the task of Jesus Christ (not the Father or Spirit). All judgment has been given to the Son. Also, note that the Joel 2 reference uses LORD for Jesus Christ.
 

Davidpt

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Anyone who can read the Scriptures using common sense can see your error with following man's false Amill theories.

A.
2 Peter 3:10 = "day of the Lord" timing, last day of this present world when Jesus' 2nd coming happens.

B.
2 Peter 3:11 = same time as above, on the day of Christ's 2nd coming.

C.
2 Peter 3:12 = the Revelation 20:11 event of the new heavens and a new earth; only will happen after... Christ's future literal "thousand years" reign over the nations.


It's as easy as A, B, C's!

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?


Let me get this straight. You are arguing--- wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat--is not meaning anything in verses 10-11, where you take those verses to be involving the 2nd coming, but is meaning Revelation 20:11 a thousand years and a little season after the 2nd coming?

Look at the way verse 11 begins, keeping in mind that verse 10 comes before verse 12. Therefore, verse 11 is obviously expanding on verse 10, where you do appear to agree with that.

But the thought brought out in verse 11 doesn't end with verse 11, it continues in verse 12, though. Therefore, verse 11 in regards to verse 10 should be understood like such.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

All of this meaning in regards to verse 10. IOW, you can't have verse 11 being in regards to verse 10 without also having verse 12 being in regards to verse 10. Actually, you can, I guess, except no reasonable person is going to take you seriously if you do.