Revelation 3

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th1b.taylor

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
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1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

It is increasingly important that we keep our minds refreshed with the Word of God, not just the Revelation, but the entire Bible. As we look into this chapter, it will do most a god turn to review the letters in chapter 2. These letters are addressed and speak to seven Church Families in Asia but as they are read today a man walking with God should also, immediately pick up that these also apply to the church today for a Guide Line for our walk with the Christ. These have been described by some as representing the Church Age Periods from the first century until now. I do not teach that but the Church Universal is mighty like the last in this string of letters. The third verse is very solid advise for any Christian, at any point since our Chris left on the cloud.

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

In class today we around and around with a gentleman about what I am about to say here and he is the only one in the class that never got it, that left me and all the others praying for him, it´s serious not to relate to this. In the eyes of God, you, I and every Christian we collectively know were given robes of the purest white, the very moment we were saved and have been dressed in them ever since. Those that remain faithfully serving the Master will have less stains on our garmets than the Carnal Christian. Some, better than 95% or the North American Church Family never have had a spiritual robe on, if the Barna Church Survey of the mid-eighties is correct. That makes the inside of our own churches a mission field white unto harvest.

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

We find here that we can hide nothing from our God. We also see that he or she that is faithful and true to the Word of God has the door into Heaven opened to them. This scripture flies straight in the face of much of the errant theology being taught in the ear tickling churches today. This promise is conditional, they kept His Word and had not denied His name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

With this passage I have always found that the Human Earth Worms always wiggle the worst! It is the Jew that is called out here and a study, completed by myself, over fifteen years ago illustrates why the Christians are not, seemly, included. When the First Century Church sprung up we were recognized as a Jewish Sect. Like it or not, we are still that sect from the Jewish Faith! As a Christian today, you are included in this warning. These conditions spelled out here were once, withing my life time, taught in the churches. It is a mark of just how far we have fallen.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

You see here that Jesus is stressing the conditions and the reward. I admit it, I am sick of seeing people, mistakenly, through ignorance of the truth and sometimes intentionally lying to people to fill their buildings. Just knowing Jesus has and will never save a single person. You cannot work or earn your way into Heaven but neither is it unconditional. You must learn to never qustion and to always obey.

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

There is no possible worse pronouncement than this and because I do believe we are very close to Jesus on the cloud, it is not only my contention that we are in the Laodicean Church Age but that all these charges are cumlative and the Church, in general, is guilty and guilty of all of it! Better than 85% of the people in your Church Family are not doing a single thing for the cause of Christ and better than 95% do not believe He will Rapture them out. Without faith there is nothing, read your Bible just like the book it is.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

The United States Of America is in such a dangerous position today! The man living under the Freeway Bridge is among the top 10% of the wealthiest people in the world. We have so much material wealth that we have no Spiritual eyes to see our poor and wretched position! Some of you are so blind that these words will enrage you and you´ll never do a Spiritual Inventory.

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Does God see you dressed white, Spiritual White?

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Is Jesus your Master? Do you obey Him?
 

Israelsson

Israelsson
Sep 18, 2011
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Down here in Satan's kingdom (Earth)
I agree we are in the era of being 'lukewarm' in our church. And I agree that people aren't doing what they should to establish His Kingdom(government). My only disagreement is in the rapture. There is more 'anti-rapture' evidence in Scripture than there is ANYTHING relating to Jesus sneaking the righteous away on a cloud.

This, in my opinion is a false teaching, but I would like to discuss more about it with you if you like.

Parable of the Tares and the Wheat


[size="+2"]Matt. 13:24-30: [/size]Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
This straightforwardly teaches that the wicked will be cast into the furnace, BEFORE anything happens to the righteous. What do you think? I'm open to study with one another.
 

th1b.taylor

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
277
22
28
79
SE Texas
I agree we are in the era of being 'lukewarm' in our church. And I agree that people aren't doing what they should to establish His Kingdom(government). My only disagreement is in the rapture. There is more 'anti-rapture' evidence in Scripture than there is ANYTHING relating to Jesus sneaking the righteous away on a cloud.

This, in my opinion is a false teaching, but I would like to discuss more about it with you if you like.

Parable of the Tares and the Wheat


Matt. 13:24-30: Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
This straightforwardly teaches that the wicked will be cast into the furnace, BEFORE anything happens to the righteous. What do you think? I'm open to study with one another.
I will only ask what do you do with !Thes 4:15-17?
 

Insight

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Aug 7, 2011
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Taylor,

Thank you for your above commentary.

In Roman times Laodicia was known as a banking city, and was famous for its money transactions. It was also noted for the beautiful soft wool, black In
colour, that was grown by the sheep of the district; and also for its pagan worship, including a great medical school which specialised in an eye ointment known as Phrygian powder that was compounded locally.

Unlike the other churches Jesus gave no commendation!!! but condemnation: in Rev 3:15-17; He offered Counsel in Rev 3:18-20; and then Challenge them in Rev 3:21.

Because of great wealth their attitude was insipid and sickening so much so Jesus felt like spewing them out.


He is coming and what will he find us doing?

Insight
 

Israelsson

Israelsson
Sep 18, 2011
135
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Down here in Satan's kingdom (Earth)
By: Arnold Kennedy
1
RAPTURE REFLECTIONS
A REVIEW OF THE "RAPTURE" DOCTRINE
INTRODUCTION.
Why is there so much conflict over the "Rapture"? Why is there so much uncertainty? In the Christian world, some
have even lost their faith over this one issue. Our attitudes and outlook in life and to the world in general are based
upon the doctrines we hold, and these affect our attitude to the Word of God. If the Word of God seems to be
confused, the problem lies with us, or what we have been taught, not with the Word of God. We are told that "Every
Word of God is pure", and so we must work from this basis. Any preacher who declares that the Rapture doctrine is
"minor doctrine" had better think again. It is major doctrine, because what we believe affects our actions and attitudes.
Jesus sent His followers on a mission and He gives gifts and talents for the task. Any doctrine which turns God's
people into "wicked and slothful servants" is evil-[Matt.25-26].
Rapture preachers like to say that, because historically people like Augustine and many others through history believed
in the “second coming” and “the blessed hope”, that this must also include “the rapture”. They are very lean when it
comes to chapter and verse from the church fathers. The "rapture" doctrine was virtually unknown as a major doctrine
until 1830 and began following a prophecy made by a 15 year old girl named Margaret MacDonald, in Scotland. It
was endorsed up by J.N. Darby of the Exclusive Brethren at that time and the doctrine has been widely propagated over
the years through the popular Schofield Bible notes. It is now a common Bible College and Seminary teaching, but it
is not a historic doctrine of Protestant orthodoxy.
END TIME BELIEFS.
Among denominational teachings, end-time beliefs tend towards being within one of three main groups of ideas:
1. That the world will continue to get worse and worse with the time of the end being a time of total chaos, at
which time Jesus will return to establish His Kingdom.
2. That as the world deteriorates, Christians will be "raptured" from earth away from tribulation, and will
later return with Jesus to reign with Him on earth, after a 3.5 year tribulation period for those left behind.
They paint a picture of God's people disappearing from earth, leaving the "unsaved" behind. Most of the
teachings are based upon the words "caught up"; that is, suggesting that being "caught up" means being
taken away from this earth's scene. This is based upon 1 Thess.4: 13-18 which we will be looking at in
detail. But, the passage is essentially about the resurrected being joined to the living at Jesus' return to earth,
and then both being placed together forever with the Lord.
3. That God's people will go through their tribulation that precedes the second coming of Jesus, but although
this time is violent it is not total chaos. At the time of harvest, the "wicked" will be destroyed but the
unsaved of the nations will still be on earth.

It is true as we are told in 2 Tim.3:13 that "Evil men will wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived", but
Timothy was told to "continue" in the Word of God. Jesus tell us about us being persecuted, being hated by all men
and also "He that endureth until the end shall be saved"-[Matt.10:22]. Then Jesus tells us about the Tares which are
gathered FIRST at the reaping time, indicating that His people are left still on earth. In Matthew 24, Jesus talks about
His people being on earth at "the end". He says, "Lo, I am with you until the end of the world". and that "He that
endureth to the end will be saved". We are told about "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ who shall confirm you
until the end that ye might be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ"-[1 Cor. 1:8].
Christians are generally taught that the end time when the supposed "rapture" takes place will be a time of confusion,
disorder and chaos. Jesus does not portray it that way. He says:
Matt.24:37-39 "But as in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the Son of man be.
for as the days that were before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in
marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark and knew not until the flood came and took them all
away".
These are rather normal activities which are not indicative of any chaos. Note the pronoun "them" here. Who were
"taken", the "we" or the "them"? The same applies to those who are "taken" and those who are "left" in the passage
following that quoted above. The popular teaching is that it is the "we" that are taken away, not the "them" as Jesus
says. 2
Mark 13:32 “But of that day and of that hour knoweth no man. Take heed and watch and pray, for ye
know what the time is....."
There is no indication here that this is a time of chaos and trouble with manifestation of that which is out of the then
current ordinary. Jesus says His coming again will be as unexpected as a thief in the night and in a time "that ye think
not". Paul in 1 Thess.5:3 tells us also about the day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night.
Matthew 24:6 "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of war: see that ye be not troubled, for all these
things must come to pass, but the end is not yet".
At present we are hearing about wars and rumours of wars, so the "end" time cannot be whilst these are going on.
There are race wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes; we have those all now, but the end "is not yet". After these
we are told about the persecution and affliction of God's people. They will be hated by all men. These are said to be
just the beginning of sorrows. Jesus goes on to tell us about "after the tribulation of those days". There will be first
"the sign of His coming", but even then He has not returned Himself at the time of the sign.
I Thess 5:3 "For when they shall say peace and safety, then sudden destruction commeth upon them".
Note that in this passage we again have "ye" and "them". The sudden destruction is upon the "them". This is
important. Those who are described as "ye" must still be left on earth. Note this well, this time of saying "peace and
safety" must come before the sudden destruction. This time of saying "peace and safety" must come after the wars and
rumours of wars.
At present, God's people are under the greatest world wide attack that has ever been. There has never been such "great
tribulation" or pressure suffered by God's elect. The restraints of God's Word are less and less active in our "World
Village" society because they are no longer being treated as being authoritative, even by denominations. World
Government humanism has taken over society and also what were once Christian nations. Provision for legal action
against God's people is being set up, just as Jesus forecast. We have United Nations "peace-keeping" and "peace
making" and the prospect of "them" saying "peace and safety", but it is the "them" who will be destroyed, not the
"we".
THE EFFECT OF THE "RAPTURE" DOCTRINE.
The fault of the "rapture" teaching is that it infers that the church is impotent to do anything until Jesus returns and the
teaching leads to apathy and inaction in every area, even in the political area. It is a doctrine that infers that "politics
and religion do not mix". It suggests that Christians are a hopeless lot who can do nothing without "Christ in the flesh"
being present, and that Christians can do, and indeed should do, nothing against Satan and his host of evil spirits. The
impetus and assignment to turn the world up-side-down as in the early church has been taken away. But, is the mission
given by Jesus really no longer valid in what the dispensationalists call "this dispensation"? The "Rapture" is also a
recipe for failure to exercise action towards God's purpose and intention for man to subdue the earth and to have
dominion over it. Suggesting that the power of the Holy Ghost is no longer with us does great harm to belief and
purposefulness. The doctrine is popular with both Dispensationalists and Pentecostals, the first saying that the age of
miracles, tongues and healing is past, whereas the other emphasises these things. Both groups do little actively against
the corruption and abuse found in society. Although there are exceptions, in general national ethical standards are of
little concern because the thought held by people with this doctrine is this, "What is going to happen is going to
happen, so there is nothing that can be done about it". This was not the attitude of the early Church, the Apostles or
the Prophets. It is not what Jesus teaches! There is no "go" in this attitude.
It is true that God will judge His people, but those who have made "a covenant by sacrifice" shall have righteousness
declared [Ps. 50:5-6]. God's will is for repentance unto life for His people and for them to return under His authority.
Judgement unto restoration is God's historic intent for His people, but judgement unto oblivion is God's historic intent
for His adversaries.
The rapture doctrine would tell people not to worry about God's judgements upon earth, because they insist that
Christians will be taken away from earth away from God's wrath. But, the prophets and apostles do not agree. Isaiah
puts it this way:
Isaiah 26:20 "Come My people, enter into thy chambers and shut thy doors about thee. Hide thyself as
for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For behold, the Lord cometh out of his
place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity".
It is just a bit too hard to shut our doors about us if "we" are not still on earth at that time. Yes, even Elijah hid in a
cave and Obadiah hid fifty prophets in a cave when it was appropriate to do it to escape. David also hid from Saul's
attacks until the right time. Rahab hid spies and Gideon hid wheat. Joseph stored up food when the "money failed in
the land of Egypt" but God's people were fed because of prior preparation against the time of trouble. 3
In the time of trouble there is no removal from the scene in scripture. In trouble David said, "Hide me from the secret
counsel of the wicked" and " hide not thy face from thy servant, for I am in trouble"-[Ps.62:2 and 69:17]. The picture is
spelt out early in scripture and has never changed.
Deut.4:29-30 "When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter
days, if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient to his voice.........".
We are told what will then happen. There is no "rapture" theme through scripture! But there is a long picture of action
by God's people when in their tribulations.
"CAUGHT UP".
But, is what they say about being "caught up" really what "caught up" means? If the scene painted by "Rapture"
teachings were true, then there is much difficulty because we find in scripture that other people who were "caught up"
remained on earth after the event. The Greek word for "caught up" is harpazo, and it is found 18 times in the New
Testament. From these we should get a good picture of what the word means. The KJV translates the word, as
follows:
Catch....... ……1 time. Catch away.....2 times. Catcheth......3 times.
Catch Up…… 3 times. luck...............2 times. Pull...............1 time.
Take by force...3 times. Take................1 time. Pulling...........1 time.
From these words we can see that there is some sort of forceful or sudden transition from one state or place to another.
Of all of these verses where the word harpazo occurs, there are only four which could possibly be construed as having
anything to do with God's people leaving the earth. Although fourteen verses all agree that the word has nothing to do
with leaving the earth, we will look at the four verses, so the matter can be totally cleared up and that there are no
lingering doubts.
These verses are as follows:
1. Acts 8:39........................ About the Spirit of the Lord catching away Phillip after his speaking with
the Ethopian eunuch..
2. Cor. 12:2-4................... About Paul being caught up to the Third Heaven.
3. Rev. 12:5......................... About the 'child of the woman' being caught up unto God and His Throne.
4. Thess. 4:17.................. About the so-called "rapture" verses.
THE FIRST VERSE.
Acts 8:39. "The Spirit caught away Phillip, that the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way
rejoicing. But, Phillip was found at Azotus....."
Some seem to think that Phillip was zapped from one country to another after speaking with the Ethopian Eunuch. But,
it must be pointed out that Phillip started at Gaza in Palestine and was "found" at Azotus, also in Palestine, and really,
the two are so very close together! One thing for sure, he was not "caught away" from the earth because he was still
preaching on earth afterwards.
THE SECOND VERSE.
2 Cor. 12:2-4 "...such a one caught up to the third heaven".. ..... ..How that he was caught up into
paradise".
Before anything more is said, Paul was still on earth after this event; Yes, He was on earth telling the tale. But, where
was Paul "caught up" to? What is "the Third Heaven"? In scripture there are at least six heavens which may be
examined.
Heaven. Singular..without definite article.
Heavens. Plural....without definite article.
The Heaven. Singular..with the definite article.
The Heavens. Plural....with the definite article.
The Third Heaven. When Jesus returns.
The New Heaven. The fourth and last.
THE THIRD HEAVEN is our immediate consideration. We have a popular conception that there are different
'heavens' which are stacked up vertically, like the air belt, the stratosphere, and above that, and that is all. "Third" in
'Third Heaven' is tritos in Greek which means the third in order in time sequence. In time sequence we have:
FIRST HEAVENS. Man sinned......God ceased to walk with man......ended with the flood.
SECOND HEAVEN. Present age.....sin continues.....Jesus redeems Israel......ends with fire.
THIRD HEAVEN. Jesus returns.....millenium.....sin and death continue until everything and the last enemy,
death, is placed under Jesus' feet. Then Jesus hands the Kingdom over to the Father.
FOURTH HEAVEN. God again tabernacles with man.........no more sin...........eternity. 4
If we consider 2 Peter 3:5-6, Peter talks about the 'heaven' which was before the flood as perishing. Since that 'heaven'
passed away, we have the present 'heaven', or sky above us. Prophecy tells us that the present 'heaven' will pass away
also, and that this will be replaced by a new heaven and a new earth-[Is.65:17, Is.66:22, 2 Peter 3:13]. In these verses,
the situation in the new heavens is very much on earth. The time is "the day when the Lord binds up the breach of His
people, and heals the stroke of their wounds"-[Isaiah 30:26]. When Jesus returns the earth will be renewed and will be
under the 'Third Heaven'.
The prophets tell us about the new "heaven" where the moon will shine as brightly as the sun, and that the light of the
sun will be seven-fold what it is now. This is the Third Heaven that Paul was caught up into. It is an event in time,
rather than in geography. Paul had a vision, or "an earnest" of his inheritance"-[Eph.1:14] He had a glimpse or a preview of what is to come in the next age when Jesus comes to take His Kingdom, on earth. Paul was caught up into
paradise; the Third Heaven will be paradise for all of us who are looking for His appearing. This is "our blessed
hope"! The "Rapture" is presented by Dispensationalists as being the "hope", but in scripture it is "His appearing".
Paul is not the only one recorded in scripture to have had such an experience. Peter, for instance tells of the similar
experience on the Mount of Transfiguration-[Matt. 17:1-9 and 2 Peter 1:17-18]. The resurrected Moses and Elijah were
present in this pre-view. The three disciples concerned did not depart from earth at this time, either!
In Revelation 4:1, the Apostle John records, "The first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me,
which said, 'Come up hither' and I will show you things that must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the Spirit, and
behold, a throne was set in heaven......". The point here is the the apostle was in the pneuma = "current of air", which is
translated as Spirit here. Although "come up" = "ascend" in this verse is not harpazo, the apostle was physically on
earth after the experience, because he too, also told the tale. Paul said he did not know whether his experience was in
the body or not, we do not know this either.....and neither will we try to guess.
{But, those with some understanding of the relationship between, energy, time and matter might have a clue because we read,
"there should be time no longer"-[Rev.10:6]-.}.

THE THIRD VERSE.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child who was to rule the nations with a rod of iron. And her
child was CAUGHT UP God and unto His throne”.
Few would find any problem in this verse about the ascension of Jesus after His resurrection, and this does not include
the "woman" [Israel] being also "caught up".
THE FOURTH VERSE.
1 Thess 4:17 “Then we which are alive and remain, shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the
clouds to meet the Lord in the air”..
This is the key verse of the "Rapture" doctrine. We do not find any other verses like it in the Bible and so the popular
interpretation lacks the two or three scriptural witnesses as required to "be established" and to back it up. 'Types' cannot
do this. Before we look at the order of the whole passage in context, it would be helpful to look at some individual
words in this verse.
DESCEND.
Katabaino is found 138 times and is a common expression with the common meaning. It comes from basis which
means to walk on foot!
“SHOUT”.
A lot is made out about this word, but keleuma is found only here. It comes from keleuo [27 occurrences] which are
translated as “commanded” 25 times in the KJV.
“THE ARCHANGEL”.
Archaggelos simply means “the Chief Messenger”., and is used referring to Michael in Jude 1:9.
"ALIVE".
The word translated "alive" is zao in Greek. It is used both figuratively [e.g "man shall not live by bread alone"], and
literally [e.g. "To whom He showed Himself alive after his passion"]. The literal usage most commonly contains a
supernatural element such as being brought back to life after death. It is often used relating to lifestyle or manner of
life, such as enjoying God's blessing. Out of the 144 occurrences, there are very few verses that could be taken as
"alive" just meaning normal everyday life on earth -[i.e. it is not just not being physically dead].
The popular teachings are that "we" are caught away from normal physical life on earth to be forever with the Lord in
another place than earth. That place is said to be 'heaven' and we have already looked into that word and that the Third 5
Heaven is on earth. Paul tell us in 1 Cor. 15:51-52 that we shall all be changed at the last trump. [Note that the "trump"
is also part of the "rapture" verses]. "Changed" is allasso and is used in Heb.1:12 about the heaven and the earth also
being changed. The time of being changed is the same time as when the heavens and the earth are changed; that is, the
time of Jesus' return. It is the time of the Third Heaven. As the timing is given as "the last trump", the time of being
changed must follow the earlier six woes of tribulation when each of the angels have sounded their trumpets! -[Rev.8].
So, there could be no pre-tribulation "rapture" in the way it is most commonly presented.
“REMAIN".
"Perileipomai" is not the common word used for 'remain', [meno is the common word which has the meaning of staying
in a given place or state]. It means to be "left all about" or "to survive" or "to be left over". To survive, someone else
other than those who "remain" must have been taken already! We will be seeing that it is the "wicked" that are taken
out first.
"CLOUDS".
"Caught up together with them in the clouds" in our original text as translated, does not show in English that these
clouds [nephele] are different from the normal clouds [nephos]. The difference parallels the use of "anan" and "'ab" in
Hebrew. [There is no definite article with nephele]. "Nephele" according to lexicons refers to a specially shaped cloud
like that seen on the mount of transfiguration or the cloudy pillar that Israel had at the Red Sea. The following verses
show this.
Matt. 24:20 "...Son of Man coming in the CLOUDS of heaven".
Matt. 17:5 "...A bright CLOUD overshadowed them".
Acts 1:9 "...A CLOUD received Him out of their sight".
Rev. 11:12 "...And they ascended into heaven in a CLOUD".
Rev. 14:14-16 "...Sat on a CLOUD".
1 Cor 10:1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye be ignorant, how that OUR FATHERS were under
THE CLOUD, and that all passed throught the sea, and were baptised unto Moses in
THE CLOUD, and in the sea, and did all drink of that spiritual drink which was christ
[anointed].
It is not the scope here to talk about being baptised both in the cloud and in the sea. "Baptizo" means "to make fully
wet" or "to cover fully with a fluid". The cloud is fluid and the Children of Israel were baptized in the nephele. This
pillar of cloud gave light, and fire to God's people [Israel], but it gave darkness to their enemies. It is also associated
with "air", so we must look at "air" because it is mentioned in our text phrase, "meet the Lord in the air".
"AIR".
This word is "ruach" in Hebrew and in Greek it is "aer", and they are translated as "breath", "air", "wind" "spirit", etc.,
including "to blow", "to breathe [unconsciously]", and "to respire". It comes from a root meaning "to cover or
encompass"]. Now, the moving "air" makes "wind" [pnoe or pressure]. We read, "the wind bloweth where it listeth"-
[John 3:8]. When we consider all these elements, we can see a similarity with Pentecost -[Acts 2:1-3], where those
present were "baptised" in those elements. There was the sound [voice] of the wind and there was the fire [cloven
tougues of fire]. Then we read about them seeing visions. Although the cloud is not specifically mentioned at Pentecost,
there are elements of the Third Heaven experience that were present. They met the Lord in the "air" with the air in the
form of a rushing mighty wind. Yet, they remained on earth after it!
And whom did they "meet"? The "Lord" here [and in the "rapture" passage] is Kurios which is the word used as in "the
Lord Jesus". It is not Theos, the word used for "God". After the meeting the Lord "in the air" at Pentecost they were
changed people. "And they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus"-[Acts 4:13]. To be "ever with the
Lord" will make people changed people!
"MEET".
One popular idea is that Christians will ascend into "the sky" to meet Jesus, and then later return to earth with Him.
The word "apantesis" means "meet" just like it means today. But, what is the time when those who are "alive and
remain" have this meeting? What happens first? Let us look at the sequence as given in 1 Thess 4:13-18..
1.The Lord himself shall descend. -[First, and once only].
2.The shout. -[Keleuma, a unique word].
3.The voice of the archangel. -[Voice is 'sound'].
4.The trump of God. -[The last trump].
5.The dead in Christ arise. -[Resurrection].
The 'then' of verse 17 comes inbetween here, so next we have in sequence:
6. The 'catching up' together. -[The living plus the resurrected]. 6
7. The meeting in the air and then being forever with the Lord. -[It does not say where..."in the air" is not a
place]. Even if any were to use "air" as "atmosphere", this is not outside of the air belt of earth.
We are not clearly told here whether or not the first five events are simultaneous, but we are told in 1 Cor. 15:50-54
that the time frame is "in the twinkling of an eye" and that when the trumpet sounds the dead will be raised. This is a
passage which confirms that this time is that of the last trump at the end of the tribulations. Then we are told, "And we
shall be changed", putting on incorruption. Verse 17 comes between [5] and [6] above. The verse starts with "then"
indicating the above five events happen first. "Then" is eipeita which has been translated as "thereafter", "after that",
"thereupon", and relates to time or order. The context where the word appears through scripture indicates
"immediately afterwards but in the same time period". In this passage, Paul is answering concerns about those
Christians who had already died. He tells them that the dead in Christ will be resurrected, and Jesus will bring these
with Him when He descends. He is telling these concerned Christians that they then will all be together with the
resurrected dead for ever. This fact is stated as being a comfort for Christians -[1 Thess.5:11]. Christians are told to
edify each other with these words, in this verse. Instead of doing this we find the "rapture" doctrine taught; this
destroys by encouraging looseness, rather than building up in "godly edifying" -[1 Tim. 1:4].
In the "so shall we be ever with the Lord" that the passage concludes with, it says absolutely nothing about this being
on or off the earth. The presumption that being with the Lord means being away from the earth comes from the
presumption of what "heaven" means in this passage. As the Third Heaven is on earth, we can be sure that it means
being with the Lord on earth. It is not a case of the Lord returning to take us to where the resurrected dead are, but it is
that of the Lord bringing the resurrected dead to where we ["those that are alive and remain"] are. There is no obvious
point in bringing the resurrected back to earth and then immediately zapping them away again, as is suggested by some.
[But, it will be literally "heaven on earth" when we are forever with the Lord].
To verify whether "being ever with the Lord' means being on or off the earth, we have to confirm this with prophecy
which would foretell where this will be. As there is no prophecy to support being away from earth, the popular view
has to be supported by "types". For instance, "Enoch walked with God, and he was not for God took him" is said to be a
type of being raptured. The Bible does not say anywhere that Enoch was raptured [harpazo], but that he was translated
[metatithemi]. If any like to say that these two Greek words are the same then they are being dishonest. To this they
add the story about Elijah being carried up in a chariot of fire as a type. Elijah was carried up to 'heaven' or to
"shamayim" which is the place where birds fly -[Ezek 31:13]. If Elijah had been raptured in the popular conception,
then he may not have gone very high! If we wanted to resort to "types" to prove a point, we could speak about Moses
talking face to face with God. Yet, Moses was buried.......and buried on earth! -[Deut.34:6], so what was he a type of?.
Again we can all read about Jesus being "taken up" and a cloud receiving Him out of their sight. Here "taken up" is
"analambano" in verse 2 of the first chapter of Acts, whereas it is "epairo" in verse 9, and so the rapture enthusiasts
must needs decide which word they are referring to, if they want to use this as a 'type'. Neither has the meaning of
"harparzo".
The rapture enthusiasts also like to use Revelation 7:14 to say that "they which came out of great tribulation" were
raptured. "Came out" here is "erchomai" which hardly fits as it has to do with kindred persons arriving......[not
leaving].
To say that those which follow the Lamb "clearly describe the rapture of 144,000 Jewish evangelists" is really going
just too far in the imagination. Ignoring the peculiar but wrong common use of "Jewish" for "Israelite", "follow" here
is "akoloutheo" which has the meaning of "accompanying as a disciple, cleaving steadfastly with, or following one who
precedes". It has nothing to do with anyone being 'snatched away'.
The "two witnesses" of Revelation 11:3-12 are recorded as "ascending to heaven in a cloud", and here "ascending" is
"anabaino" which has to do with walking up steps, so this can hardly be associated with all the religious notions about
"the rapture", however many attempts are made to make it 'fit' as a type.
WHO ARE TAKEN AND WHO ARE LEFT?
One important thing is, who is going to be taken, and who is going to be left? Another consideration is whether those
taken are from among every one on earth or just from among God's people. The popular common teaching is that the
good are taken and the bad are left out of all the peoples on the earth. This is not the way Jesus puts it. [Being the very
opposite to what Jesus says makes the rapture doctrine an evil doctrine].
Matt.13:39 "So shall it be at the end of the world [age]. The angels shall come forth and SEVER THE
WICKED FROM AMONG THE JUST".
Likewise, we see this same order in the accounts:
1. -Of the net and fishes......the bad are cast away and the good are gathered -[Matt.13:48]. 7
2. -Of the Tares and the Wheat...the bad are FIRST burned and then the good are gathered -[Matt.13:30].
3. -Of the man without a wedding garment who was bound and cast into outer darkness...he was cast out before the
feast started -[Matt.22:11]
4. -Of the Edomite leaders of Jewry being thrust out of the Kingdom before those chosen sit down in the Kingdom of
God -[Luke 13:28].
5. -Of the days of Noah, which is connected with one being taken, and the other left in the parable of the two being in
the field, and also the parable of the two women grinding at the mill -[Matt.24:3]. Jesus here is speaking about the
end of this age. He says that it will be "as the days of Noah". The bad will be taken out in death as in the days of
Noah. The pronouns in this section contain both "them" and "ye". It is the "them" that are 'took' and 'taken' -[Matt.
24:37-42]. We are told that the flood came and 'took' "them" all away in death.
THE WICKED.
The popular picture is that God's people are taken away from the earth leaving everyone else to tribulation. Jesus says
that it is the "wicked" that are taken away. The "wicked" are not everyone other than Christians, or the unconverted.
They are the "poneros" who are of evil influence in God's Kingdom. Poneros is not harmartolos, the latter basically
meaning sinful or "missing the mark". All christians are sinful, but all are not wicked. These are distinctions that
are not commonly made, but there cannot be understanding, or right doctrine, unless the Word is rightly divided.
[NOTE: If anyone wants to look through these differences, they could start with 1Tim.1:9-10, where we also find the
catagories of lawless, disobedient, ungodly, sinners, unholy, profane, murderers, manslayers, whoremongers, homosexuals,
liars, perjurers, and anything contrary to sound doctrine].
Both Testaments tell the same story about the end of the "wicked". They are to be "cut off" or "taken". There are many
definitions of who are "wicked" through scripture, and many churchgoers are wicked and do not know it, [e.g. Psalm
10:2-15, "The wicked......God is not in ALL his thoughts"]. The wicked are those who know what is right but refuse to
do what is right. They have returned to their vomit. The unconverted do not know all that is right for themselves, but
the wicked know what God wants them to do, and also what God does not want them to do. Yet, the wicked go ahead
and do what God does not want them to do. 2 Peter 2:15 says they have forsaken the right way and that it would be
better not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and have turned away from it. In other words,
the "wicked" are those who have turned away from the truth. They are in a worse condition than the unconverted!
-They are like Esau and his descendents [Edom] whom God says He hates -[Rom. 9:13]. Esau was
rejected and could find no place of repentance -[Heb.12:17].
-They are rejected like King Saul who refused to obey God --[1 Sam: 15:23]--God rejected King Saul.
-They are those who resist the ordinance of God, and receive to themselves damnation -[Rom.14:2].
-They eat and drink damnation to themselves, not discerning the Lord's body -[1 Cor. 11:29].
-They are having "damnation because they have cast off their first faith" -[1 Tim. 5:2].
-They are rejected because they bring forth thorns and briars...and will be burned -[Heb.6:8].
-They are looking back and are not fit for the Kingdom of God -[Luke 9:62].
-They are those who do not use their talents , “And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there
shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth”.
Even in this age, it is a requirement that wicked people are to be put out of Christian assembly -[1 Cor. 5:13-
"Wherefore, put away from yourselves that wicked person"]. Instead of practising this excommunication and teaching
who the wicked are, the popular doctrine changes this and says the wicked are the unconverted. The unconverted are
"unsaved", not "wicked". There are three main groupings, the unsaved, the converted and the wicked. Because of
doctrinal teaching about "once saved, saved for ever" there could be no "wicked" under this teaching. Therefore, their
idea is that there are only the saved and the unsaved, with the "saved" being raptured and the unsaved being left behind
on earth. The truth has been reversed and altered! If there was such a word as "rapture" it would apply to the "rapture
of the wicked". This "rapture" is not bliss; it is judgement! God does not, in fact, accommodate the wicked in the
Kingdom of God. What Jesus says about these offensive wicked is:
Matt.13:41-42 "The son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of His Kingdom, all
things that offend, and them which do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire; There shall be
weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their father".
Then Jesus says, "Let him that hath ears, let him hear". Let us hear this carefully! The wicked are taken OUT, and this
means those who remain are NOT the wicked.
DOCTRINAL SCHIZOPHRENIA.
Two popular but opposing beliefs are taught simultaneously today;
[a] That Christ will return to earth with His saints and rule all nations with a rod of iron-[Rev.2:26-27].
That Christians will be raptured away from earth to heaven. 8
To try to marry up the two beliefs it has been necessary to invent mechanisms to cover this. These vary in what are
often labelled, pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib tribulation positions. The pre-tribs and the mid-tribs have to re-work the
prophetical scriptures to try to fit prophecy with these. It all gets so complicated that the average person cannot
understand it. These positions are far from the original "postmillennial" position. It is the rapture doctrine that has
created chaos among Christians. The uncertain sound this has created in prophecy has destroyed multitudes, split
assemblies and families. That is the danger of this "rapture" doctrine, and therefore, this cannot be treated as minor
doctrine.
It is not the purpose of this paper to go over the three main prophetical positions, to discuss Futurism..v..Historism, or
Dispensational Teachings. There are points of view over phrases like Jesus coming "for his saints" and "with his saints"
that some try to make issue over. They are trying to say by these phrases that there are two second comings of Jesus,
but these are not valid comparisons and they have no meaning, because "saints" includes both the living who "remain"
and the resurrected. So, "for" and "with" refer to the same time period. We have seen that these both meet the Lord
"together" at the same time. And, of course, there is no prophetical stream about two second comings of Jesus.
Dispensationalists talk about New Testament revelation of mysteries to establish their position, ignoring the statement
that God would do nothing without speaking through His prophets-[Amos 3:7].
One of the incomprehensible things about those who support futurism and any form of dispensational theology is how
they can quote Daniel 9:27 about ”the midst of the week” and then say that the second half of that same week is
sometime in the future. To do that they have to say things without prophetical or biblical basis like, “God’s prophetical
clock stopped ticking”! The “great persecution against the Church“-[Acts8:1]-” or the tribulation period from “the
midst of the week” until the stoning of Stephen, was three and one half years [the second half of the same week of
years]. At the end of this time the early church were “scattered abroad”.
It is popular with Rapture teachers to start speaking about being ready to meet Jesus who “could come before the end of
this meeting”. In the process of expounding 1 Thess.4:13-15 they will say that there is a resurrection before being
“caught up”. It is to be wondered what they might respond if someone asked them about the resurrection happening
during the meeting! Probably many would get a great fright to see the dead in Christ rise [standing = anistemi]
amongst them. The timing factors are not mentioned.
In 1 Corinthians 15, we read about Jesus reigning “till He hath put all enemies under His feet”, until finally death itself
is destroyed . Is the Rider on the white horse in heaven or on earth? Are these enemies in heaven or on earth?
DO GOD'S PEOPLE GO THROUGH TRIBULATION?.
Perhaps the greatest substantiation of right doctrine lies simply within the multitude of accounts and statements that
God takes his people through tribulation, rather than away from it. There are verses like, "And to wait for His son from
heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come"-[1 Thess. 1:10] which
are deceitfully used to support the false rapture doctrine. An examination of "delivered" through the New Testament of
the use of "rhuomai" = "rescue or deliver" will swiftly show that this deliverance is not by taking His people away from
trouble, but the rather it is by deliverence from iniquity and ungodliness. The wrath to come is "against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness"-[Rom. 1:8]. Once again, the wrath of God is
against the "wicked". It is always the wicked that are to be removed and judged.
The whole picture about God's people being taken away before tribulation is false. The first use of the word 'tribulation'
in the English of the KJV is this...it has already been quoted:
[Deut.4:30]. "When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon you, even in the latter
days, if thou turn to the Lord the God, and shalt be obedient to his voice, [for the Lord thy god is a merciful
god], he will not destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto you".
The covenant fulfilment place is on earth. This could not be true if Christians were "raptured" away from earth.
For those who want more scripture about God's people being taken through tribulation, the following will help:
2 Sam. 22:7 2 Chron. 15:4 Neh. 9:27 Psalm 4:1
Psalm 18:6 Psalm 27:12 Psalm 32:7 Psalm 59:16
Psalm. 102:2 Psalm 107:6 Psalm 108:12 Isaiah 26:16
Isaiah. 59:19 Isaiah. 63:9 Hosea 5:15
Matt. 24:9 "They shall deliver you up to be afflicted...."
Matt. 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation"..........[.the elect are there in it].
Matt. 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days"...Jesus returns to save and gather his elect out of
tribulation.
Mark 13:19 "For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not since the beginning of the creation".
John 16:33 "In the world ye shall have tribulation...."9
Acts 14:22 "We must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God".
Rom.5:3 "We glory in tribulations".
Rom. 12:12 "Patient in tribulation".
Rev, 2:9 "I know thy works and tribulation..."
Rev. 7:14 "These are they which came out of great tribulation...".
We cannot "come out" without first being "in" tribulation. [NOTE: "Affliction" and "tribulation" are the same word in
Greek].
There are those who are teaching that Christians have to suffer nothing at all, because Jesus suffered for them on their
behalf. Then they say that we do not have to be concerned about all the troubles coming upon the earth because "we"
will be raptured away from earth before it all happens. These teachers do not believe, "If we suffer with him, we will
reign with him"-[2 Tim. 2:12], or the "When thou art in tribulation" as quoted above. They do not believe Jesus when
He says:
Matt.24:22 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world, to this
time, no nor ever shall be, and, except those days should be shortened, there should be no
flesh saved. But, for the elect's sake, those days shall be shortened".
It would be not much use shortening the days for the elects' sake if the elect are not on earth. The "elect" are still on
earth in this tribulation. In the passage Jesus speaks about "immediately after the tribulation of those days" [v29]....this
tribulation is before His return [v30]. Jesus starts off this section about his return by saying, "Let no man deceive you".
He says many will be deceived. Jesus then points to the ten virgins, as a warning! Being a virgin is not enough; even
a virgin must have a supply of fresh oil or else be shut out!
FALSE COMFORT.
The Jesuit [Roman Catholic] support of the 'rapture" doctrine can be followed historically. The mother of harlots and
abominations of the earth has leavened the three measures of meal, as Jesus said would happen -[Matt.13:33], and
Rome will yet be drunken with the blood of the saints and the martyrs of Jesus -[Rev.17:6]. This will be tribulation
indeed for the saints of God! This leaven of the "rapture" has permeated through perhaps 90% or more of the mainline
churches today. Most modern Bible translations [from Roman Catholic minority texts] have removed all references to
"comfort" by changing translations or by dropping out phrases. For example, compare Isaiah 61:1 with Luke 4:18
where the phrase "He hath sent me to bind up the broken hearted", has been left out of the New Testamant. [Yes, even
in the NIV...have a look!]. The word parakaleo which is translated "comfort" in I Thess 4:13 and 22 other places in the
KJV, occurs 107 times in the New Testament. "Comfort" is vanishing fast in new translations! But the lexicon
meanings of "to console", "to beseech", "to exhort" "to encourage", "to comfort" have not disappeared in fact. Even
the "Comforter" has been changed to "Counselor" in the NIV, and in later translations to New Age words such as
"helper" used of spirit-guides or demons. These "doctrines of devils" in the latter days are prophesied about in 1
Tim.1:4 and connects with Christians departing from the faith and "having their conscience seared with a hot iron".
Before the "rapture" passage, Paul is exhorting about the manner of life Christians must live. After the passage, Paul
warns about walking as 'children of light' and for them to seek to to escape the wrath to come. The next chapter is a
continuation of the same subject and in 1 Thess.5:11 he again speaks of comfort, "wherefore comfort yourselves
together, and edify eachother", the reason being because the living and the resurrected "should live together with him".
Today, the comfort offered is a false comfort. Parakaleo is translated 43 times as 'beseech' in the KJV, but we no
longer find anything so strong as beseeching people to totally transparent life or noting that "if we walk in the light as
He is in the light" is the condition and way to walk so that the Blood of Jesus can cleanse us from all sin -[1 John 1:7].
Instead of this we find the teaching that if any have made a profession of salvation they do not have to worry too much
because "Jesus has done it all" and anyway, they will be raptured away regardless. In other words, there is no right
teaching about who the "wicked" are, or that if any are found wicked without the garment of righteousness, they are to
be numbered among the "wicked" and will be cut off. They will not be 'gathered together' with the resurrected. They
will ever be in outer darkness, not "ever with the Lord".
The verses from Isaiah 66 about the new heavens and the new earth quoted in the paragraph below are altogether too
tough for today's churchgoers, but that whole chapter is addressed to God's people! In it God says he will choose their
delusions! "For this reason God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie that they all might be
damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness”-[2 Thess.2:11]. Isaiah 66 likens their worship
to eating swine's flesh, drinking swine's blood and doing abominable things at the same time as trying to worship God.
He tells us to whom God is looking ; it is to those "who tremble at My word"! People are no longer taught to tremble at
the Word of the Lord. There is no longer any "fear of God before their eyes" -[Rom.3:18]. There is no longer "a
certain fearful looking for of judgement" for wilful sin -[Heb. 10:26-27]. As Jesus says, "Narrow is the way that leads
unto life, and few there be that find it". "Narrow" is thlibo which means "suffer tribulation"! This shows up the
"rapture" doctrine for what it is, namely a false promise of escaping tribulation. 10
The whole thrust of scripture is contrary to the popular "Rapture" doctrine. To deceive, or to try to avoid responsibility
for one's actions, we find either:
The "handling the Word of God deceitfully"-[2 Cor. 4:2].
The place of scripture and the Revelation of God is questioned.....the "Did God say?" of Satan.
The doctrine is too hot to handle because of controversy and confusion.
The ignoring the prophetical scriptures -[2 Peter 1:21].
Saying we just need to teach "The central doctrines of the Christian faith", ignoring that "man shall not live by bread
alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" -[Deu.8:3 and Matt.4:4]. And then they say, "We will
not touch anything controversial because that brings division into the church".
Teaching that Judgement "is not the nature of God", inferring the wrath of God is not "revealed against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men who hold the Truth in unrighteousness"-[Rom. 1:18]. Truth has to be known to be able
"hold" it. The judgement is against believers who do not "walk in the light" each individual has received personally.
There are 194 references to "cut off" in the KJV. The meaning is very clear!
THE EARTH.
The usual starting point for teaching the “Rapture” doctrine is to commence with John 14:1-3 where it is said that Jesus
is preparing us a place in “heaven”. In His words “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for
you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself, that where I am ye may be also”. Firstly, there is no mention of
“heaven” in this verse; nor is there mention of where the “place” is. At the time of speaking, Jesus was ON EARTH,
and He said He would come again TO EARTH, “that where I am there ye may be also”. The only “place” mentioned is
“earth”. But we have to go further to see what “tropos” = “place” really means. We find there are eight references
and these are the translations in the KJV:
“Even as” Matt.23:37.
“In like manner” Acts 1:11 and Jude 1:7.
“Every way” Rom. 3:2 and Phil 1:18.
“Any means” 2 Thess 2:3.
“All means” 2 Thess 3:16.
“Conversation” Heb. 13:5.
From these we can confidently say that that the simplistic meaning put on this word by the rapturists is not the right
picture.
It is not the scope here to say a lot about the place where the Kingdom of Heaven is that Jesus is talking about here, but
Jesus says He will return to earth and take His Kingdom -[See the parable of the vineyard -Matt 21]. The "vineyard"
is a specific limited area of the earth with a hedge about it -[Mark 12:1].
The place where Israel rules with God is on earth -[Rev.5:10-"And we shall reign on the earth"]. God's will is done in
the Third Heaven now, and it will be done on earth soon when Israel rules with God. That is one thing that we are
asked to pray for; "Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven". Israel is God's battle axe over the other races for this
purpose -[Jer.51:20]. Israel is to be regathered to the land promised to the fathers of Israel -[Ezek.37:5 and many other
places]. Is it to be suggested that this land Abraham walked over and which was promised to his seed is not on earth?
In "and so shall we ever be with the Lord", "ever"= "pantote" means "at all times", and has to do with time, not place.
That this earth is to be purged and judged by fire does not mean that it will cease to exist any more than it ceased to
exist after the flood.
"New" in 'new earth" is chadash in Hebrew which comes from a word meaning to repair or renew. In Greek
this is kainos which Thayer gives as "recently made superior to what it succeeds" or "a new and better
condition", or "begin to be far different from what they were before".
About the transition taking place into the time of the Third Heaven, we read:
Isaiah. 66:16 "for by fire and by His sword shall the Lord plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord
shall be many".
V24 "And they shall go forth, and shall look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against
me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched. and they shall be an abhoring unto all
flesh".
- The "they" that go forth are stated to be God's servants. [These are alive on earth].
- The carcases of the transgressors have not been "raptured" away from earth.
- The scene is still upon earth. 11
After this tribulation, where will "we" be? Let us see.
Ps 25:13 "His seed shall inherit THE EARTH...-[The man that feareth the Lord].
Psalm 37:9 "For evildoers shall be cut off, but they that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit THE
EARTH".
Psalm 37:11 "But the meek shall inherit THE EARTH, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of
peace".
Psalm 37:22 "For such as be blessed by Him shall inherit THE EARTH, but they that be cursed of Him
shall be cut off".
Proverbs 2:21-22. "The upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect SHALL REMAIN IN IT. But the
wicked shall be cut off from THE EARTH, and the transgressors shall be rooted
out of it.
Jesus says, "The meek shall inherit THE EARTH".
 

th1b.taylor

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
277
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SE Texas
By: Arnold Kennedy
1
RAPTURE REFLECTIONS
A REVIEW OF THE "RAPTURE" DOCTRINE
INTRODUCTION.
Why is there so much conflict over the "Rapture"? Why is there so much uncertainty? In the Christian world, some
have even lost their faith over this one issue. Our attitudes and outlook in life and to the world in general are based
upon the doctrines we hold, and these affect our attitude to the Word of God. If the Word of God seems to be
confused, the problem lies with us, or what we have been taught, not with the Word of God. We are told that "Every
Word of God is pure", and so we must work from this basis. Any preacher who declares that the Rapture doctrine is
"minor doctrine" had better think again. It is major doctrine, because what we believe affects our actions and attitudes.
Jesus sent His followers on a mission and He gives gifts and talents for the task. Any doctrine which turns God's
people into "wicked and slothful servants" is evil-[Matt.25-26].
Rapture preachers like to say that, because historically people like Augustine and many others through history believed
in the “second coming” and “the blessed hope”, that this must also include “the rapture”. They are very lean when it
comes to chapter and verse from the church fathers. The "rapture" doctrine was virtually unknown as a major doctrine
until 1830 and began following a prophecy made by a 15 year old girl named Margaret MacDonald, in Scotland. It
was endorsed up by J.N. Darby of the Exclusive Brethren at that time and the doctrine has been widely propagated over
the years through the popular Schofield Bible notes. It is now a common Bible College and Seminary teaching, but it
is not a historic doctrine of Protestant orthodoxy.
END TIME BELIEFS.
If derailing is your idea of conversation, have a good day!
 

Israelsson

Israelsson
Sep 18, 2011
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Down here in Satan's kingdom (Earth)
Apologies! I didn't realize that posting an article with insight into the topic at hand was 'derailing'. I was only providing material that I study from to gain what understanding I feel that I have. There are many others in Christendom that feel the same way as I, but not near as many as those that believe in the rapture. Remember that Jesus Christ tells us "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:14

I just feel as though I am witnessing to a brother in Christ, if the majority does something, that probably means that it isn't the right thing. This is not true all of the time of course, that is what we have prayer for. I meant no disrespect, but please provide scriptures that support your ideology, if you have them.