Revelation chapter 11 questions

[ProDeo]

The Two Witnesses

Rev 11:1 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

First question, which Temple is God talking about, the temple of Salomon which was destroyed in AD70, or is it a future temple yet to be build. And if the latter is true how can God call that temple the temple of God because God does not longer live in a temple but in the hearts of His children. So I think chapter 11 is talking about a situation before AD70.

Verse 3-6 is about the Two Witnesses, messengers of God, it is still about Jerusalem.

Rev 11:7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. [ESV]

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. [KJV]

So in Jerusalem the beast that rises from the bottomless pit murders the messengers of God in Jerusalem and God calls Jerusalem Sodom and Egypt.

Second question, who (or what) is the beast that murdered the 2 messengers of God, a number of possibilities :

. The religious leaders of that time, the Pharisees, the Sadducees once again.
. Rome
. The Zealots who denied Christ and waged war on Rome (66–73 AD).

Is the beast Israel itself in that time period (33-70AD) ?

And if Revelation 11 is future, the same question is valid.

 

[shepherdsword]

The Two Witnesses

Rev 11:1 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

First question, which Temple is God talking about, the temple of Salomon which was destroyed in AD70, or is it a future temple yet to be build. And if the latter is true how can God call that temple the temple of God because God does not longer live in a temple but in the hearts of His children. So I think chapter 11 is talking about a situation before AD70.

Verse 3-6 is about the Two Witnesses, messengers of God, it is still about Jerusalem.

Rev 11:7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. [ESV]

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. [KJV]

So in Jerusalem the beast that rises from the bottomless pit murders the messengers of God in Jerusalem and God calls Jerusalem Sodom and Egypt.

The problem is that chapter 11 has the 7th trumpet and Christ's return to judge the dead:

Rv 11:15-18
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

We know this has yet to be fulfilled. In my opinion (and it's just opinion) the temple referred to, is yet to be built.

Second question, who (or what) is the beast that murdered the 2 messengers of God, a number of possibilities :

. The religious leaders of that time, the Pharisees, the Sadducees once again.
. Rome
. The Zealots who denied Christ and waged war on Rome (66–73 AD).

Is the beast Israel itself in that time period (33-70AD) ?

And if Revelation 11 is future, the same question is valid.

The beast that kills them is the king angel that came from the pit in chapter 9 at the 5th trumpet

Rv 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

 

[ProDeo]

The problem is that chapter 11 has the 7th trumpet and Christ's return to judge the dead:

Rv 11:15-18
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

We know this has yet to be fulfilled. In my opinion (and it's just opinion) the temple referred to, is yet to be built.


The beast that kills them is the king angel that came from the pit in chapter 9 at the 5th trumpet

Rv 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

You are probably right, complicated...

 

[ScottA]

The Two Witnesses

Rev 11:1 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

First question, which Temple is God talking about, the temple of Salomon which was destroyed in AD70, or is it a future temple yet to be build. And if the latter is true how can God call that temple the temple of God because God does not longer live in a temple but in the hearts of His children. So I think chapter 11 is talking about a situation before AD70.

The Temple of God is the body of Christ (John 2:21).

The Gentiles will walk upon ("trample") the foundation laid by Israel and Christ for forty-two months ("half a time" from Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7 "a time and times and half a time"). The times of the Gentiles is after the cross (around 35 AD) beginning when Paul was sent to the Gentiles, until the end of "times."

Verse 3-6 is about the Two Witnesses, messengers of God, it is still about Jerusalem.

Rev 11:7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. [ESV]

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. [KJV]

So in Jerusalem the beast that rises from the bottomless pit murders the messengers of God in Jerusalem and God calls Jerusalem Sodom and Egypt.

Second question, who (or what) is the beast that murdered the 2 messengers of God, a number of possibilities :

. The religious leaders of that time, the Pharisees, the Sadducees once again.
. Rome
. The Zealots who denied Christ and waged war on Rome (66–73 AD).

Is the beast Israel itself in that time period (33-70AD) ?

And if Revelation 11 is future, the same question is valid.

The beast is Satan or the serpent, so called for his way of weaving among the grasses of the field of God and of this world. Sodom and Egypt spiritually is this world, given two names representing Israel and the Gentiles, or the flesh and the spirit. Those are the "two witnesses." Israel is the first witness--"a light unto the Gentiles" representing God's witness by the flesh; and the Gentiles are the second witness following the day of Pentecost when God began to pour out His spirit upon all flesh, representing the spirit. "to the Jew first and also to the Greek" (Romans 2:10). "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual" (1 Corinthians 15:46). That is why both are part of the one passage.

 

[ScottA]

The problem is that chapter 11 has the 7th trumpet and Christ's return to judge the dead:

Rv 11:15-18
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

There is no problem. Daniel said that Messiah would "confirm the covenant" in the "middle" of "the week" (in the middle of the seven "times") which are the seven days prophesied in the seven days of creation representing all of time before God's rest on the seventh day--which Messiah Jesus confirmed on the cross as confirmation. Such are the days this world "a time and times and half a time" (Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7).

 

[Davidpt]

The Temple of God is the body of Christ (John 2:21).

The Gentiles will walk upon ("trample") the foundation laid by Israel and Christ for forty-two months ("half a time" from Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7 "a time and times and half a time"). The times of the Gentiles is after the cross (around 35 AD) beginning when Paul was sent to the Gentiles, until the end of "times."


The beast is Satan or the serpent, so called for his way of weaving among the grasses of the field of God and of this world. Sodom and Egypt spiritually is this world, given two names representing Israel and the Gentiles, or the flesh and the spirit. Those are the "two witnesses." Israel is the first witness--"a light unto the Gentiles" representing God's witness by the flesh; and the Gentiles are the second witness following the day of Pentecost when God began to pour out His spirit upon all flesh, representing the spirit. "to the Jew first and also to the Greek" (Romans 2:10). "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual" (1 Corinthians 15:46). That is why both are part of the one passage.

satan empowers the beast, not is the beast. satan is cast into the LOF where the beast and fp already are at the time, not is the beast.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Maybe satan is also the false prophet? Why not? Right? If he can be the beast why can't he also be the fp? Right?

 

[Davidpt]

The Two Witnesses

Rev 11:1 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

First question, which Temple is God talking about, the temple of Salomon which was destroyed in AD70, or is it a future temple yet to be build. And if the latter is true how can God call that temple the temple of God because God does not longer live in a temple but in the hearts of His children. So I think chapter 11 is talking about a situation before AD70.

Verse 3-6 is about the Two Witnesses, messengers of God, it is still about Jerusalem.

Rev 11:7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. [ESV]

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. [KJV]

So in Jerusalem the beast that rises from the bottomless pit murders the messengers of God in Jerusalem and God calls Jerusalem Sodom and Egypt.

Second question, who (or what) is the beast that murdered the 2 messengers of God, a number of possibilities :

. The religious leaders of that time, the Pharisees, the Sadducees once again.
. Rome
. The Zealots who denied Christ and waged war on Rome (66–73 AD).

Is the beast Israel itself in that time period (33-70AD) ?

And if Revelation 11 is future, the same question is valid.

Why are you assuming the city and temple in Revelation 11 are literal? The literal sense is not the only way to interpret the city and temple meant.

 

[ScottA]

satan empowers the beast, not is the beast. satan is cast into the LOF where the beast and fp already are at the time, not is the beast.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Maybe satan is also the false prophet? Why not? Right? If he can be the beast why can't he also be the fp? Right?

The scriptures speak of the workings of Satan in many ways...not to be considered anything or anyone more. The same is true of Christ (the scriptures also speak of His works by many, but all do the works of Christ Jesus). As Paul as much as stated, saying, "for me, to live is Christ."

 

[shepherdsword]

There is no problem. Daniel said that Messiah would "confirm the covenant" in the "middle" of "the week" (in the middle of the seven "times") which are the seven days prophesied in the seven days of creation representing all of time before God's rest on the seventh day--which Messiah Jesus confirmed on the cross as confirmation. Such are the days this world "a time and times and half a time" (Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7).

You missed this part:

Rv 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The dead have not yet been judged or the saints rewarded

 

[Davy]

First question, which Temple is God talking about, the temple of Salomon which was destroyed in AD70, or is it a future temple yet to be build. And if the latter is true how can God call that temple the temple of God because God does not longer live in a temple but in the hearts of His children. So I think chapter 11 is talking about a situation before AD70.

Study Ezekiel 16. When the children of Israel fell into false worship was the 2nd temple the Jews built in Jerusalem per the old covenant after the remnant return from the Babylon captivity still God's temple?

I am surprised that so many of my Christian brethren allow themselves to be duped by Satan's host that creep in and create confusion about God's temple. Those false ones are trying to hide the end time signs written in God's Word. They wrongly believe Christ's Book of Revelation is already history. And they wrongly believe Paul's "temple of God" of 2 Thessalonians 2 is about a pope as antichrist sitting over the Temple of The Spirit, i.e., Christ's Church, which is impossible, since Lord Jesus Christ is its Cornerstone, and the foundation stones are made up of God's prophets and the Apostles per Ephesians 2.

Thus both the "temple of God" in 2 Thessalonians 2, and the temple shown in Revelation 11:1-2 is about the future 3rd literal stone temple the orthodox Jews in today's Jerusalem already have the materials ready to build, and plan to start up old covenant worship again in Jerusalem. A literal stone Jewish temple in Jerusalem is actually required at the end per God's written Word, in order to fulfill the placing of the "abomination of desolation" of Daniel 11 and Matthew 24:15.

Second question, who (or what) is the beast that murdered the 2 messengers of God, ....

Satan himself.

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
KJV

Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
KJV

That bottomless pit is symbolic for Satan's home in the heavenly dimension. That ascending out of the bottomless pit idea is linked with the beast of Revelation 17:8 that shall ascend out of the bottomless pit and will go into perdition (into the future "lake of fire").

Revelation 12:7 forward reveals a war in Heaven is to take place at the end of this world, and Archangel Michael will boot Satan and his angels out of the heavenly dimension and instead down to this earth, in OUR earthly dimension. He's coming, and the majority of the world is not prepared spiritually for it.

It is time for folks to quit judging everything by their flesh. Our real home is with The Father and The Son in our future glorious "spiritual body" with a new heavens and a new earth. The full Godhead is coming back here, on earth, to live for Eternity. God lived here on earth before, which is why His Garden of Eden is shown on earth per Genesis 2 & 3.

 

[Marty fox]

satan empowers the beast, not is the beast. satan is cast into the LOF where the beast and fp already are at the time, not is the beast.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Maybe satan is also the false prophet? Why not? Right? If he can be the beast why can't he also be the fp? Right?

Satan is the king of the abyss the destroyer

Exodus 12
23 When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.

Revelation 9
11 They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).

Hebrews 11
28 It was by faith that Moses commanded the people of Israel to keep the Passover and to sprinkle blood on the doorposts so that the angel of death would not kill their firstborn sons.

 

[Truth7t7]

The problem is that chapter 11 has the 7th trumpet and Christ's return to judge the dead:

Rv 11:15-18
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

We know this has yet to be fulfilled. In my opinion (and it's just opinion) the temple referred to, is yet to be built.


The beast that kills them is the king angel that came from the pit in chapter 9 at the 5th trumpet

Rv 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Revelation Chapter 11 gives the very best window into what's going to take place during earth's future last 3.5 years of existence, and the (Two Witnesses) will bring (Literal Plagues) upon the wicked world, a complete replay of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt (Literally)

Yes Rev Chapter 11 represents the (Last Trump And Second Coming vs 15) and (Final Judgment vs 18)

Yes the chapter shows literal prophets returned (Two Witnesses) in physical bodies that die, they will lay dead in a literal Jerusalem street, as a literal world watches in celebration of their deaths

Yes the very "same hour" the (Two Witnesses) are raised to heaven the 2nd woe comes in the great earthquake with the 3rd woe coming even quicker in the 7th Trump, Second Coming, Final Judgement, End Of This World

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Davidpt]

Satan is the king of the abyss the destroyer

Exodus 12
23 When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.

Revelation 9
11 They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).

Hebrews 11
28 It was by faith that Moses commanded the people of Israel to keep the Passover and to sprinkle blood on the doorposts so that the angel of death would not kill their firstborn sons.

I tend to disagree for some of the following reasons.

In Revelation 9:11---They have as king over them the angel of the abyss. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.

The text identifies this figure as---an angel (or messenger), of the abyss, king over the demonic locusts, named Abaddon (Destruction) and Apollyon (Destroyer).

It does not add---who is satan, the devil, the dragon, or that ancient serpent.

Whenever Revelation wants readers to know someone is satan, it usually says so very plainly. For example, Revelation 12:9 identifies the dragon as---the great dragon---that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and satan.

John gives multiple identifying names there. He does not do that in Revelation 9.

Why some interpreters still identify Apollyon with satan, such as you?

There are several reasons.

1. satan is associated with the abyss elsewhere.

In Revelation 20:1-3, satan is bound and thrown into the abyss.

Some conclude that if satan is imprisoned there, he is naturally its ruler.

However, this is not required by the text. In Revelation 20, satan is a prisoner, while another angel possesses the key and authority over the abyss. That actually suggests satan does not control it. Plus, nowhere in Revelation 9 does it ever say that king is also imprisoned in the pit with the locusts. One can be a king over them without having having to be imprisoned with them. To be fair though, since the text doesn't state either way, maybe the king is trapped in there with them, and maybe he isn't.

2. The title Destroyer

Apollyon literally means Destroyer.

Jesus says in John 10:10: The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.

Since satan destroys, some, such as you, conclude the destroyer must be satan.

But destroyer is a description, not a unique personal name. Scripture applies destructive activity to many agents---God sends destroying angels. Human armies destroy. Demons destroy. satan destroys.

The title alone does not identify the person.

3. satan is leader of evil spirits

Since the locusts are demonic beings and have a king, some argue their king must be satan.

This is possible, but not necessary.

The New Testament also speaks of---rulers, authorities, principalities, powers.

There appears to be a hierarchy among evil spirits. A high-ranking demonic angel could command these creatures without being satan himself.

What about Exodus 12 and Hebrews 11 you brought up?

This is where the argument becomes weaker, IMO.

Exodus 12:23 says--He will not allow the destroyer to enter your houses...

The Hebrew simply uses a common noun meaning destroyer. It is not the proper name Abaddon.

Hebrews 11:28 likewise refers to---the destroyer of the firstborn

Again, it does not identify this being as satan. In fact, Exodus emphasizes that the destroyer acts only because the LORD permits or restrains him. The destroyer functions as God's agent in judgment.

Many Jewish and Christian interpreters understand this destroyer to be an angel executing divine judgment, not the devil. Which, BTW, is what I think is happening in Revelation 9 as well--an angel executing divine judgment, not the devil. After all, note who these locusts attack. Not satan's enemies, God's enemies. satan's enemies is the church. God's enemies are those who do not have the seal of God in their forehead.

So the chain----destroyer (Exodus) = Destroyer (Revelation) = satan is not established by the text itself.

The statement satan is Apollyon is a theological interpretation, not an explicit biblical claim.

 

[Truth7t7]

satan empowers the beast, not is the beast. satan is cast into the LOF where the beast and fp already are at the time, not is the beast.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Maybe satan is also the false prophet? Why not? Right? If he can be the beast why can't he also be the fp? Right?

Scripture clearly teaches that there are 3 separate beings (Satan or Dragon) is a spiritual being, (The Beast) & (The False Prophet) are literal human beings who are men

It's my personal belief that the spiritual being in (Satan/Dragon) will literally dwell within the future body of (The Beast)

Revelation 16:13-14KJV
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

 

[Davidpt]

Scripture clearly teaches that there are 3 separate beings (Satan or Dragon) is a spiritual being, (The Beast) & (The False Prophet) are literal human beings who are men

It's my personal belief that the spiritual being in (Satan/Dragon) will literally dwell within the future body of (The Beast)

Revelation 16:13-14KJV
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

It's possible the fp might be human. But I don't see it making sense that the beast is also human. The beast has been around since the beginning of time, apparently. No human in this age can live for thousands and thousands of years.

 

[ScottA]

You missed this part:

Rv 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The dead have not yet been judged or the saints rewarded

According to the [worldly] time keeping of men not yet born at that time, they seemingly had not yet been judged or rewarded. But neither were they even born at the time of the cross, nor even those long dead, seemingly were not crucified with Christ--but that is not what is written. As Paul gave witness of himself and "those who are Christ's" "have been crucified with Christ."

And to complete Revelation 11:18, even the "angry"--"Even those who were crucified with Him reviled Him."

 

[Truth7t7]

It's possible the fp might be human. But I don't see it making sense that the beast is also human. The beast has been around since the beginning of time, apparently. No human in this age can live for thousands and thousands of years.

Its my opinion the angel coming from the bottomless pit is (Satan/Dragon, Abaddon/Apollyon/Destroyer) this does nothing more than describe (Satan) who will be released for a little season during the 3.5 year future great tribulation and he will dwell within the human body of (The Beast) giving him his power Rev 13:4

It's my opinion that Daniel's (Little Horn) Paul's (Man Of Sin) John's (The Beast) all represent the very same future human man that has a literal body that dies or is destroyed, this future individual human man is also referred to as (The Antichrist)

(The Beast Was Slain/Killed) And (His Body Destroyed) And Given To (The Burning Flame/Lake Of Fire) Personal Pronoun "His"

Daniel's (The Little Horn)
Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Man Of Sin, Destroyed By The Lord At His Coming, Personal Pronouns "He" "His" "Himself"

Paul's (Man Of Sin)
2 Thessalonians 2:3-9KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

(The Beast) & (The False Prophet) will be human men and they will be cast living into the lake of fire Rev 19:20, Personal Pronouns "He" "Him"

(The Dragon/Satan) will give his power to (The Beast) Rev 13:4 two separate beings

John's (The Beast)
Revelation 13:3-8KJV
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

(These Both Were Cast Alive/Living) Two Separate Beings

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[shepherdsword]

It's possible the fp might be human. But I don't see it making sense that the beast is also human. The beast has been around since the beginning of time, apparently. No human in this age can live for thousands and thousands of years.

I think the "beast" represents both a kingdom as well as a spirit and the man over it....the man of sin or son of perdition as Paul calls him. So I see you as being correct that the spirit has been around for ages but it will one day inhabit a man in bodily form.

2 Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

[Truth7t7]

I think the "beast" represents both a kingdom as well as a spirit and the man over it....the man of sin or son of perdition as Paul calls him. So I see you as being correct that the spirit has been around for ages but it will one day inhabit a man in bodily form.

2 Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

I Agree, scripture clearly shows that the (Dragon/Satan) will empower (The Beast) giving him his power, and it strongly suggest he's inhabited by the spirit being of Satan himself, as post #17 above clearly describes

Revelation 13:4KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

 

[Marty fox]

I tend to disagree for some of the following reasons.

In Revelation 9:11---They have as king over them the angel of the abyss. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.

The text identifies this figure as---an angel (or messenger), of the abyss, king over the demonic locusts, named Abaddon (Destruction) and Apollyon (Destroyer).

It does not add---who is satan, the devil, the dragon, or that ancient serpent.

Whenever Revelation wants readers to know someone is satan, it usually says so very plainly. For example, Revelation 12:9 identifies the dragon as---the great dragon---that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and satan.

John gives multiple identifying names there. He does not do that in Revelation 9.

Why some interpreters still identify Apollyon with satan, such as you?

There are several reasons.

1. satan is associated with the abyss elsewhere.

In Revelation 20:1-3, satan is bound and thrown into the abyss.

Some conclude that if satan is imprisoned there, he is naturally its ruler.

However, this is not required by the text. In Revelation 20, satan is a prisoner, while another angel possesses the key and authority over the abyss. That actually suggests satan does not control it. Plus, nowhere in Revelation 9 does it ever say that king is also imprisoned in the pit with the locusts. One can be a king over them without having having to be imprisoned with them. To be fair though, since the text doesn't state either way, maybe the king is trapped in there with them, and maybe he isn't.

2. The title Destroyer

Apollyon literally means Destroyer.

Jesus says in John 10:10: The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.

Since satan destroys, some, such as you, conclude the destroyer must be satan.

But destroyer is a description, not a unique personal name. Scripture applies destructive activity to many agents---God sends destroying angels. Human armies destroy. Demons destroy. satan destroys.

The title alone does not identify the person.

3. satan is leader of evil spirits

Since the locusts are demonic beings and have a king, some argue their king must be satan.

This is possible, but not necessary.

The New Testament also speaks of---rulers, authorities, principalities, powers.

There appears to be a hierarchy among evil spirits. A high-ranking demonic angel could command these creatures without being satan himself.

What about Exodus 12 and Hebrews 11 you brought up?

This is where the argument becomes weaker, IMO.

Exodus 12:23 says--He will not allow the destroyer to enter your houses...

The Hebrew simply uses a common noun meaning destroyer. It is not the proper name Abaddon.

Hebrews 11:28 likewise refers to---the destroyer of the firstborn

Again, it does not identify this being as satan. In fact, Exodus emphasizes that the destroyer acts only because the LORD permits or restrains him. The destroyer functions as God's agent in judgment.

Many Jewish and Christian interpreters understand this destroyer to be an angel executing divine judgment, not the devil. Which, BTW, is what I think is happening in Revelation 9 as well--an angel executing divine judgment, not the devil. After all, note who these locusts attack. Not satan's enemies, God's enemies. satan's enemies is the church. God's enemies are those who do not have the seal of God in their forehead.

So the chain----destroyer (Exodus) = Destroyer (Revelation) = satan is not established by the text itself.

The statement satan is Apollyon is a theological interpretation, not an explicit biblical claim.

But why can't the destroyer be another name for satan? It does call him the king and satan is the ruler of darkness