The deity of Christ has no bearing on any other this making sense. You're just digging for trouble. If anything the sequence you gave DEBUNKS the trinity because Jesus is never called God the Son and he IS subordinate to the Father.
Revelation of Jesus Christ
- Thread starter Karl Peters
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Well _ would strongly disagree with that conclusion!!!
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
I think I will stick with God as (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and if anything is really picked up from the New Testament as opposed to the Old Testament, it is that God came down out of heaven, even the Word of God who speaks to us, and we killed Him!!! Still He Himself forgave us even for that so that we might believe in Him!!
Think about it - how to you kill the Word of God - is it not by pretending that He is not there with you so that you turn your back on Him and are unwilling to listen to Him??
That is what we do to Him, and it kills Him!!! Though He is always with us, always wanting to talk with us, we treat Him as if He was dead and not around us, or perhaps we are saying in your hearts that He has gone away so we can't hear from Him - either way that kills Him!! And anyone spending much time with Him would surely know that!!!
Of God the Father, Son, and Spirit - it is the God the Son which is glorified by the Father and Spirit!! So it is God the Son, Jesus Christ, which the whole Bible was trying to glorify, according to the plan of God!
Indeed, have you not read that nobody even knows the Father except the Son ----- and someone the Son shows!!! You read that, right?
Mat 11:27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Did you not also notice that verse above is from he New Testament?
Yeah - if you truly get to know the Son, He will show you the Father, but first you must get to know Jesus Christ and that by listening to Him, like the Father commanded. So the Father, who came up with the plan which we read about in the Bible (Old and New Testament) was to glorify the Son!!!
In the OP did I not use verse from all over the Bible!! And even in Revelation, the last book in the Bible and New Testament, did you not read how the Son was glorified?
Frankly, most people posting on this site don't make a lot of sense to me, and I think it is because they don't seek Jesus Christ as the Word of God - meaning that it seems they just don't spend much time seeking and listening to Him!
He once told me, "SHOULDN’T YOU HEAR FROM A MAN YOU’RE JUDGING WORTHY OF DEATH AND EXAMINE WHETHER THERE IS TRUTH IN WHAT HE SAYS. SO IT IS THAT I HAVE MADE HEARING FROM ME THE VERY THINGS THAT GIVES YOU ETERNAL LIFE."
It is the Son of God who is the Word that was with God and who is God - especially to those of us who do hear Him, He only says what the Father tells Him, so by hearing He Son who we get to know, we hear the words of the Father. So yeah, if we see the Son we see the Father, but the Father and the Spirit are all about glorifying the Son. So that is the plan which comes from the Father - that the Son might be glorified. How is it that people don't understand that, unless perhaps they have not heard?
??? Maybe I got what you were intended to write wrong - but clearly the Bible does call Jesus God!!!
Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:14 - 18 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’”For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
Well then you would be strongly disagreeing with God the Father. Good luck with that. Now notice carefully how Paul speaks of "God the Father" and then "God" along with "the Lord Jesus Christ" as "His Son":
ROMANS 1: "GOD" MEANS "GOD THE FATHER" OR "GOD OUR FATHER"
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Do you not even notice in the above verse which you picked as your example, that Jesus Christ is Lord!! A Lord is someone you serve!! Therefore verse 9 The God who is the witness is the whom he serves with his spirit!! He, the Son is the good news (the gospel) and that without ceasing.
Therefore even the verse you have matches up with the verse I provided:
Jn 1:1 Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Yet to come to your conclusion, that there is God the Father and that the Word of God (The Son) is not God, does not match up with either what I provided or what you provided, but you can see it and don't understand it, and that because understanding does not come from leaning on your own understanding and pride! It only comes from hearing Him!!
Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
It kind of comes down to the meaning behind the following verse, but you can understand it without hearing from Him?
Luke 9:48 and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great.”
A few things are important to understand in the above verse. One is His name!! Another is that the child would have been considered the least among them, and so we are talking about the Son. Another thing to understand is the 'whoever receives Me' And you need to get an understanding that in heaven thing are not done in the same way we think they should be done!!! It is written that His thoughts are not our thoughts, but you keep going back to leaning on your thinking, if you don't keep going back to hear from Him!! Therefore you get reproved like those in Luke 9 were being reproved!! You got things backwards, and trying to apply your backwards thinking to how things are done in heaven!! That is because of your pride! Not that all of us people don't have that problem.
So the Bible, both the Old and New Testament is a testimony of the Child or the Son, if you will! That is because the Father wants the Son glorified, but you have trouble understanding this because you want you glorify, like all us people do. But that is not how it is in heaven. In heaven the Father wants His Son glorified!! So the Son is made King of kings and Lord of lords, and the Father gives Him all things!! The all things include the very words of God - so that whenever we hear from God we hear from the Son, because the Son ,Jesus Christ, owns the very words of God!!!!
So if you hear from God you hear from the Son!! If you want an answer from God you then want an answer from Jesus Christ!! So the Father and the Son are One!! You would already know this if you truly knew Jesus Christ, and that comes from hearing Him!! So by writing what you do, you prove you don't know Jesus Chrsit,and that means you don't actually believe in Him!!
And there is another thing you wind up understanding if you know Jesus Christ, and that is that He speaks to your spirit via His Holy Spirit! And the Holy Spirit does not speak on His own initiative either, but He takes the words of God which belong to Jesus Christ as the Word of God, and brings those words to your spirit personally!!! Therefore, the word of God we preach is near us and found in our hearts and our mouths, because that is where what is in your spirit shows up!
So the Word of God (Jesus Christ has not been revealed to you. You just don't have the Revelation of Him in you - and I do mean in you!
Now I went thought the Bible showing you that Jesus Christ is the Word of God, but you did not accept the testimony, New or Old Testaments about Him. You instead are trying to lean on your own understanding, instead of seeking Him. So you don't understand that the Father made Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord or lords, therefore the "greatest", and that the Father gave Jesus the glory of goin to the cross and defeating death, and you don't understand that it was all (including the words of God, and including all the Bible, and including you and i) was given to Him, God the Son, Jesus Christ whose name it called the Word of God because He talks to us via the Holy Spirit.
Yet Jesus, unlike you or me, also does not operate in pride. He does not even consider knowing the depths of God something to be had, so Jesus, The Word of God, only says and does what the Father tells Him. So if you hear from the Son, who has been made the greatest according to the will of the Father, then you don't hear the words of Jesus Christ but the words of the Father that He got from the Father!!
You should understand that, the Father wants the Son glorified, and so the Spirit, and we too should, want the Son glorified (which is not what you are doing because you haven't been hearing the word of God), and so you should be listening to Him the Lord your God! If you did hear from Jesus Christ personally, would would not be hearing what He thinks, but He would be speaking to you the words He got from the Father!!
If you had done that you would understand what both John and Paul were telling you, but you don't and you won't unless you get that revelation of Jesus Christ!!
Jesus said:
Rev 3: 19 - 22 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come into him and will dine with him, and he with Me. ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
Now if you care to believe it: He came into my life and that because I knew that I needed Him and wanted to listen to Him. There was a day in my life when I was standing in my lawn and loudly telling Him that I was listening and wanted to know what He had to say. I did not hear Him that day but a bit later early one morning a voice spoke to me saying, "Read Your Bible". I did that and to keep this from being longer, let me just say that Him and I have been having conversations daily for over 20 years now! And from those I have come to understand all this.
I spent 40 years of my life not knowing Him, and over 20 years knowing Him, and He does not think like you think! His ways are not your ways!! I know the Father wants Him, Jesus Christ, glorified, but you are seeking your own understanding instead of trying to get people to listen to Him. You don't know Him or you would know the Father has made it about His Son! You would understand, like both John and Paul, that the Son is the Lord our God, because it is through the Son that we get our instructions from the Father. If you don't hear from the Son, you don't hear the words of God which came from the Father. Though it is written down, you don't understand that nobody knows the Father except the Son and anyone the Son shows Him too. You don't know that the Father is all about glorifying the Son, so to even get the words of the Father it means listening to the Son.
If Jesus Christ had been revealed to you, then you would understand all this!! You would have opened up to Jesus Christ as the Word of God, and you two would have talked back and forth! And you would have heard the words of the Father which were given to the Son. And you would have understood that they came to your spirit via the Holy Spirit, and not by you leaning on your understanding of the Bible. You would have understood that the Bible explains all this, but that because of their pride, people don't actually believe what they read in the Bible and also fail to understand it! They are still living by leaning on their own understanding instead of listening to Him because they don't yet have that revelation of Him!
And that seem to apply to most people who write on this forum, because they are writing out of pride instead of because He told them to! But He tells me too, and I get around to doing it, even though I don't like it. So I write and go back to Him saying, "Lord, they simply will not listen to You." But He knows that, yet still He wishes that none should perish, so the Word must go out.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
That is EXACTLY the point I am trying to make.
Not generally, exclusively.
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Your going to need them to rewrite the Scriptures for you to be correct!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Mar 12:29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
The Trinity concept is hard to understand for many people. But it should not be hard to understand for the believer. THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD, but then we also know that no one can say "Jesus is Lord: except by the Holy Spirit.
So if someone is saying there is the Lord and there is our God, and they are not one, there is a problem!! They are not matching up with the Bible. Of course, this is not a new conversation, and in Christianity we have the Trinity, but some dispute that.
I too would dispute it except that knowing Jesus Christ personally, via His Holy Spirit, it becomes easy to understand. THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD BECAUSE THEY ALL SAY THE SAME THING AND ALL ACT AS ONE.
It all comes down from the Father, who gives His words to the Son. Those words have instructions according to the plan of the Father. And the plan includes even the words God (Father, Son, and Spirit) speaks to us. The Father gives those words to the Son, so He owns them and has them. That is why He is called "The Word of God." And the Spirit takes the words from the Father which were given to the Son as a possession in order to glorify the Son, and the Spirit brings those words to our spirit. And that so we might be One with the Son like He is One with the Father.
That probably will not be clear the first time you hear words our One Lord, but it will become clear as you keep talking back and forth with Him via the Holy Spirit. He explains it to you, just like He explained it to those who heard from Him as recorded in the Bible. Yet the Bible was written so that if a person tries to lean on their own understanding it becomes apparent. They shouldn't miss it, because it is explained.
Mat 11:27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
There you go, that is a great explanation of what I was also explaining. None of us (you) know the Father unless you have come to know the Son and He revealed the Father to you! And none of us really know the Son except the Father, simply because the Son only speaks the words He got from the Father. So I know Jesus Christ, except that I don't because when we talk He only tells me what the Father gave Him to tell me. And all that comes to my spirit via the Holy Spirit!
Jn 16: 13,14 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
So see how the Holy Spirit speaks, but not on His own initiative, but whatever He hears He will speak, and that is what belongs to Jesus Christ who is The Word of God because the words of God belong to Him!!
So if you hear from GOD you hear from Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit.
And if you hear from GOD, you hear the words you hear even belong to Jesus Christ!
So how silly does a person seem to someone who really does hear from Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit, when the the person starts saying that THE LORD OUR GOD IS NOT ONE LORD, but rather start saying that there is the Father, as if they knew the Father, and then there is a lesser person known as the Lord, and then perhaps somewhere in there is the Holy Spirit. It doesn't take but a moment to realize they have not been hearing from The Lord Our God, or at least not very much and for very long.
Now David, who said the Lord said to my Lord, understood. David understood that the Father spoke to the Christ and that he heard all that via the Holy Spirit, and so they all said the same thing and the same time! They were One. David knew it and how it worked. Paul knew it, which is why in a verse quoted by another person on this thread " First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ ' The person quoting it didn't seem to understand, but God comes through Jesus Christ and so knowing Jesus Christ is know Him and the Lord our God - and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (God) are One Lord and to us He is known as Jesus Christ, because the Son gets the glory.
You don't hear from the Father, and hear from the Son, and hear from the Holy Spirit, you hear the words of the Father which are given to the Son and to us via the Holy Spirit!!!
Now with that said, the person of God might sound like the Father or Son, or Holy Spirit. Yet that really is more like speaking in the first person, second person, or third person.
For example the Holy Spirit once told me, "WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!
Now the Father gave those words to the Son, so He owned them and the Holy Spirit got them from Him and gave them to me when instructed. However they came to me as from the Holy Spirit because the Son does not directly preach Himself because He does not have pride and thus not out to tell people about Him. But the Holy Spirit preaches Jesus Christ and about how He is Lord!
Another time the Lord told me this:
THESE BITS OF WISDOM ARE LIKE DROPS OF WATER. I WILL SURELY GIVE YOU A POND FULL.
That came from the Son directly, because He has been given all things by the Father so they are His to give and not the person of the Holy Spirit nor even the Father.
Another time I was told:
YOU DIDN’T MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD, BUT YOU CAN MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD.
Then it sounded like it came from God (Father, Son and Spirit) because when we tell people about God (Father, Son, and Spirit) we make the (Father, Son, and Spirit) acting all together as One Lord awesome. Those trying to make them sound separate are not doing an awesome thing! They are degrading the King of kings and that will likely come back on them.
And often I hear "Karl, I want you to listen to My Son.", and that tends to come with a lot of authority every time I hear it. Now those words were also given to the Son, and taken by the Holy Spirit and given to my spirit, but they obviously came from the Father, and passed along with authority to accomplish the will of the Father!
So it was that the John was in the Spirit when He was taken up into heaven and given the revelation He saw and heard. It was all meant to glorify the Son, not the Father, but it was the will of the Father that we should understand that the Son sits on the throne of God as King of kings and Lord of Lords and is called "The Word of God" and more. And so the revelation belonged to Jesus Christ, because all things the Father has were given to Him!! And if someone sits on the throne of God who are you to say that He is not God?????
If it doesn't come back on you, I'd be a bit surprised, You better repent and turn to Him!
Luke 19:27 “But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.”
If you want Jesus Christ to rule and reign, you are truly going to know Him as Lord, even as the King over the Kingdom of God and of course that means He sits on the throne of GOD! So your trying to say that he is some lesser being as opposed to being One with God is probably going to come back on you! Repent of it and seek Him, is my advice to you!
1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
The Trinity concept is hard to understand for many people. But it should not be hard to understand for the believer. THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD, but then we also know that no one can say "Jesus is Lord: except by the Holy Spirit.
So if someone is saying there is the Lord and there is our God, and they are not one, there is a problem!! They are not matching up with the Bible. Of course, this is not a new conversation, and in Christianity we have the Trinity, but some dispute that.
I too would dispute it except that knowing Jesus Christ personally, via His Holy Spirit, it becomes easy to understand. THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD BECAUSE THEY ALL SAY THE SAME THING AND ALL ACT AS ONE.
It all comes down from the Father, who gives His words to the Son. Those words have instructions according to the plan of the Father. And the plan includes even the words God (Father, Son, and Spirit) speaks to us. The Father gives those words to the Son, so He owns them and has them. That is why He is called "The Word of God." And the Spirit takes the words from the Father which were given to the Son as a possession in order to glorify the Son, and the Spirit brings those words to our spirit. And that so we might be One with the Son like He is One with the Father.
That probably will not be clear the first time you hear words our One Lord, but it will become clear as you keep talking back and forth with Him via the Holy Spirit. He explains it to you, just like He explained it to those who heard from Him as recorded in the Bible. Yet the Bible was written so that if a person tries to lean on their own understanding it becomes apparent. They shouldn't miss it, because it is explained.
Mat 11:27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
There you go, that is a great explanation of what I was also explaining. None of us (you) know the Father unless you have come to know the Son and He revealed the Father to you! And none of us really know the Son except the Father, simply because the Son only speaks the words He got from the Father. So I know Jesus Christ, except that I don't because when we talk He only tells me what the Father gave Him to tell me. And all that comes to my spirit via the Holy Spirit!
Jn 16: 13,14 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
So see how the Holy Spirit speaks, but not on His own initiative, but whatever He hears He will speak, and that is what belongs to Jesus Christ who is The Word of God because the words of God belong to Him!!
So if you hear from GOD you hear from Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit.
And if you hear from GOD, you hear the words you hear even belong to Jesus Christ!
So how silly does a person seem to someone who really does hear from Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit, when the the person starts saying that THE LORD OUR GOD IS NOT ONE LORD, but rather start saying that there is the Father, as if they knew the Father, and then there is a lesser person known as the Lord, and then perhaps somewhere in there is the Holy Spirit. It doesn't take but a moment to realize they have not been hearing from The Lord Our God, or at least not very much and for very long.
Now David, who said the Lord said to my Lord, understood. David understood that the Father spoke to the Christ and that he heard all that via the Holy Spirit, and so they all said the same thing and the same time! They were One. David knew it and how it worked. Paul knew it, which is why in a verse quoted by another person on this thread " First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ ' The person quoting it didn't seem to understand, but God comes through Jesus Christ and so knowing Jesus Christ is know Him and the Lord our God - and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (God) are One Lord and to us He is known as Jesus Christ, because the Son gets the glory.
You don't hear from the Father, and hear from the Son, and hear from the Holy Spirit, you hear the words of the Father which are given to the Son and to us via the Holy Spirit!!!
Now with that said, the person of God might sound like the Father or Son, or Holy Spirit. Yet that really is more like speaking in the first person, second person, or third person.
For example the Holy Spirit once told me, "WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!
Now the Father gave those words to the Son, so He owned them and the Holy Spirit got them from Him and gave them to me when instructed. However they came to me as from the Holy Spirit because the Son does not directly preach Himself because He does not have pride and thus not out to tell people about Him. But the Holy Spirit preaches Jesus Christ and about how He is Lord!
Another time the Lord told me this:
THESE BITS OF WISDOM ARE LIKE DROPS OF WATER. I WILL SURELY GIVE YOU A POND FULL.
That came from the Son directly, because He has been given all things by the Father so they are His to give and not the person of the Holy Spirit nor even the Father.
Another time I was told:
YOU DIDN’T MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD, BUT YOU CAN MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD.
Then it sounded like it came from God (Father, Son and Spirit) because when we tell people about God (Father, Son, and Spirit) we make the (Father, Son, and Spirit) acting all together as One Lord awesome. Those trying to make them sound separate are not doing an awesome thing! They are degrading the King of kings and that will likely come back on them.
And often I hear "Karl, I want you to listen to My Son.", and that tends to come with a lot of authority every time I hear it. Now those words were also given to the Son, and taken by the Holy Spirit and given to my spirit, but they obviously came from the Father, and passed along with authority to accomplish the will of the Father!
So it was that the John was in the Spirit when He was taken up into heaven and given the revelation He saw and heard. It was all meant to glorify the Son, not the Father, but it was the will of the Father that we should understand that the Son sits on the throne of God as King of kings and Lord of Lords and is called "The Word of God" and more. And so the revelation belonged to Jesus Christ, because all things the Father has were given to Him!! And if someone sits on the throne of God who are you to say that He is not God?????
If it doesn't come back on you, I'd be a bit surprised, You better repent and turn to Him!
Luke 19:27 “But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.”
If you want Jesus Christ to rule and reign, you are truly going to know Him as Lord, even as the King over the Kingdom of God and of course that means He sits on the throne of GOD! So your trying to say that he is some lesser being as opposed to being One with God is probably going to come back on you! Repent of it and seek Him, is my advice to you!
Of course it does! Who else came down out of heaven and walked in the flesh with the disciples?
You are just being silly!
Jn 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
How many "only begotten from the Father" can there be?
That is a trick question! "Only begotten" of course means there is only one Son of God who came down out of heaven and dwelt with men.
Jn 1:29 The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Jn 1:34 “I myself have seen and have testified that this is the Son of God.”
If you are just going to argue non-sense, who are you from?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No. It does not say what you claim. Only God the Father is in Scripture and you proved it be invoking some riddle that you insist be taken as a substitute for anyone other than God the Father.
2 Cor 1:13 (VOICE) We are not writing to you in anything resembling codes or riddles
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Being 'called' something does not mean that one is that something. Besides 1 Timothy 3:16 does not say anything like that about Jesus.
Your post is a Strawman. The point is only 'God the Father' is in Scripture. There is no 'God the Son' or 'God The Holy Spirit' in Scripture. Fact.
My point is that God (who we relate to as Father) gave Jesus the Revelation that John wrote about. God, in his wholeness, gave this to Jesus. Scripture does not say 'the Father' gave this to Jesus - as @Karl Peters repeatedly and falsely alleged - but God, in his wholeness, in his Unitarian nature. Rev 1:1 (CEV) This is what God showed to Jesus Christ ...
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
The gospels of course are the best way to come to know Jesus Karl, the book of Revelation is quite difficult to understand, and was basically written to Jesus' sheep as the first verse stated. Jesus assigned a faithful slave to feed his sheep during his presence until his coming, and of course it is through them that understanding is given. You are quite correct it is essential for people to know Jesus as he is the best historical example who perfectly reflected God, which helps us to know Him better as well. Knowing both God and Jesus is a requirement for eternal life, and taking in that knowledge of them is the first step of getting on that road to everlasting life as well Jn 17:3
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
No sir, Jehovah is God sir, Jesus is His son, according to the Bible any way. Many trinitarian backed versions do try to promote Jesus as God however, but it is best to listen to Jesus himself in who God is, and serve the God Jesus' served.
Too much "jesusism" ... The whole Bible is about the Father of Jesus, the One you want to ignore ... the real Author of the Scriptures.
It's about how one of Jehovah's sons sparked a rebellion against the Father of the family, and how another son stood up for his Father's rights and helped humans get out of that trap, back into that family.
The work of the Son is fundamentally in favor of his Father, God, whom he preached, and whom many want to ignore.
In the first century Jews wanted to ignore the Son of God, and today millions of people want to ignore his Father, which is much worse (John 17:3).
OK - take a look again and see that you are wrong!!
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And as for:
2 Cor 1:13 (NASB) For we write nothing else to you than what you read and understand, and I hope you will understand until the end;
I do hope you can understand the Bible, but in the Bible we read:
Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
So it is written that "From His mouth come knowledge and understanding!!
Now as for your version of the Bible being called (Voice) don't believe the Bible is His voice. The Bible is not the Word of God we are preaching, but the Word of God we are preaching is found near you -even if you don't have your Bible near you - because it is found in your heart and mouth, not then from the ink on pages but the Spirit of God speaking to you spirit!
Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
And as for that version (Voice)
Jn 1:1 (Voice) Before time was measured, and the Voice was speaking. The Voice was and is God.
Jn 1:14 (Voice) The Voice took on flesh and became human and choose to live alongside...
It is a pretty weird very recent translation, but even it shows that Jesus Christ was God, and that He "The Voice" was around before time was measured! So Jesus Christ as "The Voice" (if you prefer) was around as God talking to those in the Bible before, during, and after the New Testament. So you should start actually seek Him and listening to Him "THE VOICE" if you prefer that to "THE WORD OF GOD".
That "VOICE" as you want to say, belongs to a person who you can get to know personally! But though you have all the writings, even in a recent weird sounding translation, you still will not seek Him and listen to Him! That is a problem! You can change the symantics but not the person of Jesus Christ! You still have to get to personally know Him!!
Semantic????
The Bible says we don't argue over semantics -and that is correct!! Yet it was written to not argue over semantics because people want to change the semantics hoping to argue over them!
During my 20 years with the Lord, and He started talking to me personally, it became apparent that the Bible had started to be called "The Word of God", even though the Bible called Jesus Christ "The Word of God". So it was that people from the podium of Christian churches were raising the Bible over their heads (both literally and figurately) and proclaiming they were going to preach "The Word"!!! So they were not telling people about Jesus Christ, but were proclaiming that knowing the Bible would save them. They were in fact making an idol out of their Bible! And that was strange because what the said did not match up with the very Bible they were trying to proclaim. Obviously they didn't know the Bible or just didn't believe the Bible!
I also notice at those churches what was called "The Small Voice". Some people were testifying quietly and most in back rooms about hearing "the small voice". It was mostly just in the back rooms of the churches, because those in front of the church were loudly proclaiming the Bible, so a person talking about that 'small voice' might be and sometime was ridiculed in those Christian churches. I mentioned it at a meeting they required to become a member at one of those main-line Christian churches, and they promptly reject me from being a member. I was apparently the only one rejected of the 30 or so at that time.
It worked out great, because the Lord then too me to very nice and rather spectacular Charismatic Church where those behind the podium actually did hear the voice of the Lord. So they would say things which they heard from Him, and great things happened there, unlike that other church. I knew a man there who had a growth in him about the size of a tennis ball. He was poor and didn't know how he was going to get surgery to have it taken out, when one Sunday the person behind the podium announced they were hearing the Lord tell them (that would be by that small voice of his) that there was someone sitting there with a large growth in their stomach and that God was going to heal that! That man I knew told me that instantly the growth was gone! No surgery, not growth, just a normal stomach in an instant!
I had only known the Lord a few years then. Later He had me in a Christian healing ministry, and we saw that type of thing because we also listened to that "Small Voice". And what was weird was that even in those churches who listened to the small voice of the Lord, they still called the Bible "The Word of God", which still did not match up with what the Bible says except it explained Is 28:12,13 and fulfilled that prophecy.
Now some are wanting to call the Bible "The Voice"!! Are they sooooooo blind, and lack soooooooo much understanding that they can not figure out that the devil is behind that argument of semantics?????
It doesn't matter!! Jesus Christ still is going to talk to His sheep, just like it is written! So the devil can try and cause confusion and get people to call the Bible "The Word of God", or "The Voice of God", and they can even think the Bible is "Jesus Christ", but His sheep will still be hearing from the Lord personally!! That is what they can't understand!!
So shouldn't we who do actually hear Him spend a bit of our time trying to point that out to them, in the hope that perhaps someday they will seek Him and listen to Him???
If they don't they go to hell, quite literally! They are going to be told by Jesus Christ on that day of judgement, that He never knew them!! And they will come to a tragic ending! Shouldn't we love them enough to try and help them?
It is written:
“What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops.
For those who know Him, that 'whispering in your ear' is not going to stop! And it is that 'whispering in your ear' which we are proclaiming - preaching - shouting - and making known!! And that so people would come to know Him personally!!
I cannot help to think what type of perverted generation do we have that trying to twist words so that the Bible is made out to be that 'whispering in your ear"? They try and put a spin on everything so that they don't have to face the truth!! Jesus Christ is the Truth, and His sheep hear His voice! Which is why His name is and was called "The Word of God" or word of the Lord. He is that Voice, and He is not your Bible!! He is the One written about in your Bible - both the New and Old Testament - and some keep rejecting Him, just like it is written! They have rejected the Truth to their own shame and destruction.
Maybe I can get them to see that about themselves, so they will stop the non-sense and start seeking the Lord of lords, King of kings, who sits on the throne of God and so is with God and is God. God sits on the throne of God, or have you not seen that personally?
Luke 9:41 And Jesus answered and said, “You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you and put up with you?
The Bible says we don't argue over semantics -and that is correct!! Yet it was written to not argue over semantics because people want to change the semantics hoping to argue over them!
During my 20 years with the Lord, and He started talking to me personally, it became apparent that the Bible had started to be called "The Word of God", even though the Bible called Jesus Christ "The Word of God". So it was that people from the podium of Christian churches were raising the Bible over their heads (both literally and figurately) and proclaiming they were going to preach "The Word"!!! So they were not telling people about Jesus Christ, but were proclaiming that knowing the Bible would save them. They were in fact making an idol out of their Bible! And that was strange because what the said did not match up with the very Bible they were trying to proclaim. Obviously they didn't know the Bible or just didn't believe the Bible!
I also notice at those churches what was called "The Small Voice". Some people were testifying quietly and most in back rooms about hearing "the small voice". It was mostly just in the back rooms of the churches, because those in front of the church were loudly proclaiming the Bible, so a person talking about that 'small voice' might be and sometime was ridiculed in those Christian churches. I mentioned it at a meeting they required to become a member at one of those main-line Christian churches, and they promptly reject me from being a member. I was apparently the only one rejected of the 30 or so at that time.
It worked out great, because the Lord then too me to very nice and rather spectacular Charismatic Church where those behind the podium actually did hear the voice of the Lord. So they would say things which they heard from Him, and great things happened there, unlike that other church. I knew a man there who had a growth in him about the size of a tennis ball. He was poor and didn't know how he was going to get surgery to have it taken out, when one Sunday the person behind the podium announced they were hearing the Lord tell them (that would be by that small voice of his) that there was someone sitting there with a large growth in their stomach and that God was going to heal that! That man I knew told me that instantly the growth was gone! No surgery, not growth, just a normal stomach in an instant!
I had only known the Lord a few years then. Later He had me in a Christian healing ministry, and we saw that type of thing because we also listened to that "Small Voice". And what was weird was that even in those churches who listened to the small voice of the Lord, they still called the Bible "The Word of God", which still did not match up with what the Bible says except it explained Is 28:12,13 and fulfilled that prophecy.
Now some are wanting to call the Bible "The Voice"!! Are they sooooooo blind, and lack soooooooo much understanding that they can not figure out that the devil is behind that argument of semantics?????
It doesn't matter!! Jesus Christ still is going to talk to His sheep, just like it is written! So the devil can try and cause confusion and get people to call the Bible "The Word of God", or "The Voice of God", and they can even think the Bible is "Jesus Christ", but His sheep will still be hearing from the Lord personally!! That is what they can't understand!!
So shouldn't we who do actually hear Him spend a bit of our time trying to point that out to them, in the hope that perhaps someday they will seek Him and listen to Him???
If they don't they go to hell, quite literally! They are going to be told by Jesus Christ on that day of judgement, that He never knew them!! And they will come to a tragic ending! Shouldn't we love them enough to try and help them?
It is written:
“What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops.
For those who know Him, that 'whispering in your ear' is not going to stop! And it is that 'whispering in your ear' which we are proclaiming - preaching - shouting - and making known!! And that so people would come to know Him personally!!
I cannot help to think what type of perverted generation do we have that trying to twist words so that the Bible is made out to be that 'whispering in your ear"? They try and put a spin on everything so that they don't have to face the truth!! Jesus Christ is the Truth, and His sheep hear His voice! Which is why His name is and was called "The Word of God" or word of the Lord. He is that Voice, and He is not your Bible!! He is the One written about in your Bible - both the New and Old Testament - and some keep rejecting Him, just like it is written! They have rejected the Truth to their own shame and destruction.
Maybe I can get them to see that about themselves, so they will stop the non-sense and start seeking the Lord of lords, King of kings, who sits on the throne of God and so is with God and is God. God sits on the throne of God, or have you not seen that personally?
Luke 9:41 And Jesus answered and said, “You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you and put up with you?
Jesus told Jehovah "your word is the truth" and asked him to "sanctify his disciples" with the truth (John 17:17). HE DID NOT TELL HIM: "I am your word because I am the Logos".
Jesus used the written word of God as the foundation for his speeches, quoted from it many times, and his disciples also followed his example.
When the Devil tempted Jesus, he did not defend himself by saying: "I am the word of God" but he said "it is written".
When Jesus spoke of God's creation of the first human couple, he said:
Matt. 19:4 (...) “Did YOU not read that he who created them from [the] beginning made them male and female 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart.”
He didn't say: "when I created them I said". He quoted God's word: the inspired Scriptures. Jesus was a real spirit person in heavens before being human, not something abstract, and he didn't inspired the Scriptures, it was his Father through the spirit of Him on men ...
2 Pet. 1:21 (...) men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.
Jesus used the written word of God as the foundation for his speeches, quoted from it many times, and his disciples also followed his example.
When the Devil tempted Jesus, he did not defend himself by saying: "I am the word of God" but he said "it is written".
When Jesus spoke of God's creation of the first human couple, he said:
Matt. 19:4 (...) “Did YOU not read that he who created them from [the] beginning made them male and female 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart.”
He didn't say: "when I created them I said". He quoted God's word: the inspired Scriptures. Jesus was a real spirit person in heavens before being human, not something abstract, and he didn't inspired the Scriptures, it was his Father through the spirit of Him on men ...
2 Pet. 1:21 (...) men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.
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