Right Doctrines-Beliefs of the true NATURE of God and his Son is a BIG DEAL!

[Mungo]

Let's do scripture then if you want Mungo. no worries

Excellent. I'll look out for your posts that have evidence to back up your opinions - scriptural or otherwise.

 

[BarneyFife]

If we could just agree on this one area it would greatly harmonize the Body of Christ.

Then why do people who agree on this subject argue so much about others? Is this a fair question?

 

[amadeus]

... To get out of our comfort zone, spiritually thinking. The Spirit is talking and we must listen for the voice when it happens. It is the transmission from God to our hearts into our minds. Yes, God always knows our current status and we should believe that he does. And then wait on him to provide his will, however small the tug on our heart is from him. We must make it a habit...to know when he is calling us...

In the flesh before meeting Jesus all of us formed bad habits. When we did meet Jesus taking hold of what he brought our sins were gone, but not so those bad habits [the ways of men] which when followed lead a person back to the same old besetting sins. The bad habits have to be overcome as well [the work of the Holy Spirit if a person is not continually quench ing the Spirit] and be replaced by good habits [God's Way] as he is led by the Holy Spirit. But as they develop a new habit of regularly quenching the Spirit many people continue to hold onto their old bad habits [from the days before they met Jesus] and before long may they not find themselves in a place seven times worse?

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

 

[APAK]

But as they develop a new habit of regularly quenching the Spirit many people continue to hold onto their old bad habits [from the days before they met Jesus] and before long may they not find themselves in a place seven times worse?

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

I would think this person cannot be saved under this scenario, as this person still clings on to the 'old man' and develops new bad habits ...... this person is considered wicked as one of the wicked generation Matthew is speaking about IAW Matt 12:43-45

 

[amadeus]

I would think this person cannot be saved under this scenario, as this person still clings on to the 'old man' and develops new bad habits ...... this person is considered wicked as one of the wicked generation Matthew is speaking about IAW Matt 12:43-45

The important thing for a believer is, I believe, to continue to surrender until every single thing that separates him from God, or that could separate him from God, is overcome, we have a problem that must be dealt with... The Holy Spirit in us is able to do this. I cannot emphasize too much the need to stop quenching the Spirit. Most churches in my experience teach people to quench the Spirit of God. Without that Spirit we are leading ourselves blindly and will end up in a ditch.

 

[APAK]

The important thing for a believer is, I believe, to continue to surrender until every single thing that separates him from God, or that could separate him from God, is overcome, we have a problem that must be dealt with... The Holy Spirit in us is able to do this. I cannot emphasize too much the need to stop quenching the Spirit. Most churches in my experience teach people to quench the Spirit of God. Without that Spirit we are leading ourselves blindly and will end up in a ditch.

These churches leaders, if they are true in Spirit, must emphasize that we as believers have the presence of God within us, and not in some type of mystical wrote ritual as part of a church service or part of the sermon given on a Sunday or Saturday. And we must acknowledge the Spirit of God every day within us. We are always in the company of Christ and his Father!

The Father's presence, as his temple is established within us, to glorify himself within us, and by us doing his will. Each one of us are a temple within the Kingdom of God today. I think many believers and preachers forget they have God's presence and access to the Almighty, through Christ everyday. This is the 'bread and butter' sermon and belief that goes with any day of worship...

1 Corinth 3:16-17
16 cDo you not know that you3 are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? dGod’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

 

[Wrangler]

What Anti-Trinitarians fail to grasp is that unless Christ was and is God, He could not have paid for the sins of the whole world. Which means that you could not be saved.

Except Scripture does not say this.

 

[ScottA]

There are many various doctrines and beliefs that incorporate what we call Christianity today. There were already many different beliefs being formed after Pentecost concerning the 'way' and the word of God. Nothing changes. Nothing is new today. The real difference is that today, these doctrines and beliefs have just been refined and formally categorized and recognized over time and called denominations, groups and sects. The roots of them ALL go back to the 1st -4th centuries AD.

The ones I chose to believe in and have been driven into over the course of my lifetime, I believe by the Spirit of truth, are those that are the same or very similar to the teachings laid out by Christ and his apostles and disciples - concerning the nature of God and his Son!

All other religious subjects are subordinate to it IMO.

If we could just agree on this one area it would greatly harmonize the Body of Christ.
Unfortunately this will not happen...for another subject.

Before listing the pros and cons on my very short cherry-picked list from other denominations, sects and groups of Churches, I would say I firmly believe there are born-again, converted folks in all of them. Some more that others however.

There are the Jehovah Witnesses that I love for their stance on being non-Trinitarian. They are also great as Bible Study and interpretation of the Bible.

I still have not reconciled their Michael though as being a reborn Christ from scripture. And then their novel translation of John 1:1 to make it fit as a god. The word being divine (of of divinity) would be more accurate, without the def. article in front of 'theos.'

There is the SDA (not LDS) group that are marked by their adherence to the Saturday Sabbath worship Day, and their strong anti-RCC stance. I like them not for these so much, only for some of them being 'still' non-Trinitarian, as its founder once was I believe.

Then there is the RCC - I dislike most of what they stand for as they invented Trinitarianism, and the worship of idols and Mary, and more. I was raised in their presence and this 'made' me turn to Christ later, in a personal way.

Then there are the various denominations of Protestantism. They still follow the RCC view of the nature of God and his Son, that I consider a critical err.

The closest I gravitate to are the true NT monotheists, the Christadelphians and the BIBLICAL Unitarians. They hold the close true doctrines and beliefs of God the Father and his Son. They are the 'best' at Bible Study. I do disagree with some of their lesser doctrines however. I disagree with their Eschatology as being Futurists and Pre-millennialists, like many Christians. I was draw 40 years ago to this Futurist mode and found it was very difficult to reconcile it with scripture. I also disagree with these two groups' and their emphasis of actual immersion and submersion in water as an essential ingredient for spiritual baptism for salvation. And yet before I found these two groups, I was already 'immersed' in a Baptist church as the outward sign of my faith and belief in Christ as I died to sin and death and rose with him to new life.

First the rant? That's cool.

Well then, how important is the nature of God and his Son to you, even for your salvation?!

The thread is meant to discuss the NATURE of God and his Son. Deviations are permitted of course, that help facilitate and infuse and edify each believer as necessary.

The floor is open to your thoughts and comments.

The nature of God and His Son...is Emmanuel: God with us...at least at First.

This is a bridge given to mankind amidst the manifestation of all things good and evil in the world...a bridge back to God. That first, is the nature of the world--it is us and our falling away from God in this place where it is made manifest in physical form. And because God is not physical as we understand physical, but is spirit and cannot be seen by we who have been born of the flesh--like doubting Thomas, we need a visual. Jesus Christ is that visual. However, being fathered by the Holy Spirit of God, the bridge is not so much to bring God to men, or bring him low. But rather that we might be raised up, or back to our own rightful Father in heaven.

That is the nature of God and his Son. Just as God is spirit, that bridge of Christ Jesus is leading us back to our spiritual roots to dwell in the spirit with our spiritual God.

But I don't have to tell you, many would have us all believe that God has devolved into the Son, giving glory to the flesh rather than to our Father in heaven. Not to worry--the Son does not return in the glory of the flesh, but in the glory of the Father...as is His nature.

 

[APAK]

First the rant? That's cool.

The nature of God and His Son...is Emmanuel: God with us...at least at First.

This is a bridge given to mankind amidst the manifestation of all things good and evil in the world...a bridge back to God. That first, is the nature of the world--it is us and our falling away from God in this place where it is made manifest in physical form. And because God is not physical as we understand physical, but is spirit and cannot be seen by we who have been born of the flesh--like doubting Thomas, we need a visual. Jesus Christ is that visual. However, being fathered by the Holy Spirit of God, the bridge is not so much to bring God to men, or bring him low. But rather that we might be raised up, or back to our own rightful Father in heaven.

That is the nature of God and his Son. Just as God is spirit, that bridge of Christ Jesus is leading us back to our spiritual roots to dwell in the spirit with our spiritual God.

But I don't have to tell you, many would have us all believe that God has devolved into the Son, giving glory to the flesh rather than to our Father in heaven. Not to worry--the Son does not return in the glory of the flesh, but in the glory of the Father...as is His nature.

I agree with what you said Scott/..and to clarify...the last line...the Son returns in the glory of his Father and the Father's nature it to be glorified...

 

[Taken]

Right Doctrines-Beliefs of the true NATURE of God and his Son is a BIG DEAL!
OP ^

Agree.

Exclusively the Lord God Almighty IS ONE God.
His Nature is Beyond Natural.
Natural Nature is the Lord God Almighty’s “CREATIONS”.
The Lord God Almighty’s Creations Are Subject to His Authority He “MAKES” His Creations Exist, according to His Pleasure.
Thus...The Lord God Almighty’s Creations Are “Created and Made” BY Him.

The Lord God Almighty, IS:
A Spirit.
Has Spirits.
Unseen
Without Beginning
Without Ending
All Powerful
All Knowing
Present in all places.

EVERY THING that IS “IN” God, IS God.
Every Thing that “comes forth OUT from God” “IS” God....AND Remains “IN” God, even when it “comes forth OUT from God”.

When Gods, Light, power, knowledge, wisdom, understanding, word, thoughts, truth, life, promises, grace, ECT. comes forth OUT from God, it Remains IN God.

WHAT God ELECTS to “CALL what comes Forth OUT from God”, IS according to Gods Pleasure.

WHAT God ELECTS to OFFER “TO any His Creations”, IS according to Gods Pleasure.

WHAT God ELECTS to GIVE “TO any of His Creations”, IS according to Gods
Pleasure.

WHAT God ELECTS to MAKE “any of His Creations”, IS according to Gods Pleasure.

God DOES NOT “copulate”, “reproduce”.
(Things that “reproduce”, HAVE a beginning and their offspring Have a beginning. God has NO Beginning, and does not “REPRODUCE” something that has “no beginning”! )

Gods WORD HAS come forth OUT from Gods MOUTH, “FOR CENTURIES”, (according to a mans knowledge and understanding of Time established By God, For mankind).

Gods WORD, having come forth OUT from Gods MOUTH...has Spoken, Gods Thoughts, And By Gods Power, What God Thought, What God Spoke, By Gods Power, BECAME MANIFESTED —-> VISIBLE.

Gods Thought, Gods Word, Gods Power;
ARE ALWAYS IN COMPLETE HARMONY, and AGREEMENT.
AND
ARE the SUPERNATURAL Nature OF GOD.

Gods Thoughts, Word, Power....HAVE MULTIPLE:
Names, Titles, Characteristics, Roles..etc. ALL in complete harmony, TO ACCOMPLISH ONE THING....——> GODS WILL <——

Without Beginning, Without Ending:
One Lord God Almighty.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

Except Scripture does not say this.

Oh yes. Scripture says this over and over again. But you CHOOSE to ignore every passage which insists upon the deity of Christ. That is called wilful blindness.

 

[quietthinker]

Making up your own definition of worship.
You can claim anything doing that.

the question of who makes definitions....hmmmm. Any self honest person can figure out the truth of certain statements.

 

[APAK]

If someone gets the nature of God wrong, they are not practicing the truth because it inherently means their belief lies in a false god. Someone who gets the nature of God wrong can't be worshiping the true God any more than a counterfeiter carrying a counterfeit 20 dollar bill can honestly claim it is legal tender. Trinitarians and unitarians get the gospel of Christ wrong because their understanding about the nature of God is absolutely wrong.

Someone might insist that being a trinitarian or unitarian has nothing to do with the gospel, but that would only prove they subscribe to a false gospel. The gospel Christ was sent to deliver from His Father has everything to do with the nature of God. It is not a stretch to say the nature of God is the very centerpiece of the gospel message. Get the nature wrong, and a person will subscribe to a false gospel and place their belief in a false view of Christ. That's how serious a matter it is.
God repeatedly had to punish the Israelites for worshiping a false view of Him, starting with the golden calf incident in Exodus. God couldn't be more serious when He stated in Isaiah that He will not share His glory with false gods. I highly recommend you read Jesus' interaction with the Samaritan woman where He outright says her people have spent generations worshiping a false god, despite her claim that they worshiped the God of Jacob. It matters a lot more than you think it does. God cannot and will not associate Himself with lies or the people who love hearing and spreading them. According to this absurd logic, the 1st century apostles were "removed from God" because i don't see them tolerating false doctrines of any kind in their writings.
Nowhere in the Bible does it teach the Holy Spirit is God though, especially because it's a known fact that the trinity doctrine was formulated by pagan philosophers and theologians passing themselves off as Christian. Just because you sincerely believe it is true doesn't mean it is true. Jhn 1:1 clearly describes 2 Beings that have existed throughout eternity as a God Being, and that the Holy Spirit isn't named as being one of them. There is only the God that became Christ and the God that became His Father. That's it.

DOAN: What is your clear take on the nature of the Father God and the Son? Thanks

 

[Stumpmaster]

Right Doctrines-Beliefs of the true NATURE of God and his Son is a BIG DEAL!

I'm wary of anyone who believes everyone should agree with them because their beliefs are right.

Only The Lamb That Was Slain is worthy to open the seven-sealed scroll. To me that's a bigger deal than any denominational or sectarian set of beliefs.

Rev 5:2-5 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?" (3) And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it. (4) So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. (5) But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."

Rev 5:6-7 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. (7) Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

 

[amadeus]

These churches leaders, if they are true in Spirit, must emphasize that we as believers have the presence of God within us, and not in some type of mystical wrote ritual as part of a church service or part of the sermon given on a Sunday or Saturday. And we must acknowledge the Spirit of God every day within us. We are always in the company of Christ and his Father!

The Father's presence, as his temple is established within us, to glorify himself within us, and by us doing his will. Each one of us are a temple within the Kingdom of God today. I think many believers and preachers forget they have God's presence and access to the Almighty, through Christ everyday. This is the 'bread and butter' sermon and belief that goes with any day of worship...

1 Corinth 3:16-17
16 cDo you not know that you3 are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? dGod’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

The ministers in so many places never knew, or have forgotten, or purposely neglect, to work toward the purposes Apostle Paul stated here:

"For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph 4:12

Their essential purpose should be to work themselves out of a job... hmmm?

 

[Stumpmaster]

The ministers in so many places never knew, or have forgotten, or purposely neglect, to work toward the purposes Apostle Paul stated here:

"For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph 4:12

Their essential purpose should be to work themselves out of a job... hmmm?

Yes, I don't disagree.

I also have this to say:

From My Notes:
The apostle is sent forth to maintain the flock.
The prophet speaks forth to tell the flock.
The evangelist calls forth to increase the flock.
The pastor guides forth to care for the flock.
The teacher instructs forth to train the flock.

The online author of this poem draws an analogy between the five smooth stones made fit for purpose by the waters of the brook and the preparing of the saints for minstry, cleansed by the washing of the Word.

FIVE STONES FROM THE BROOK

1.
Scripture speaks of a defiant giant,
Goliath is his name.
He stands opposed to the Will of God,
Whose people he wants to shame.
2.
But there is a brook of Living Water,
Which is the Word of God.
David the shepherd-boy knew its worth,
When a righteous path he trod.
3.
Five stones from the brook washed clean and rubbed smooth,
He gleans into his bag.
Equipped with these and a humble sling,
David's courage does not flag.
4.
Although the work of ministry is his,
The battle is the LORD's.
Complete in character and function,
David's faith has its rewards.
5.
He takes an anointed stone from his bag,
To smite Goliath's head.
With a slingshot throw and a sharp sword blow,
He proclaims the giant dead.
6.
Saints of God have complete authority,
For works of ministry,
As one building up the ekklesia,
Bringing down the enemy.
7.
Some apostles, prophets, evangelists,
Some pastors and teachers,
When He ascended Christ gave us these ,
To arm His Gospel preachers.

[Used by permission: RIVERS OF MEANING: FIVE STONES FROM THE BROOK ]

 

[Wrangler]

Oh yes. Scripture says this over and over again. But you CHOOSE to ignore every passage which insists upon the deity of Christ. That is called wilful blindness.

There is not one Scripture that says Jesus is God and none that insists upon the deity of Christ. Let’s take one example: before Abraham, I am.

This is taken by trinitarians one way but there are other valid interpretations from the text that does not “insist” on the divinity of Christ.

 

[Davy]

I guess you have gained this knowledge truly from the Spirit of truth inside of you Davy?

Yes, and that comes from our Heavenly Father, His Son Jesus Christ, by The Holy Spirit.

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

That verse right there, by itself, verifies the existence of GOD.

That idea, "so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" points back to the declaration, "the worlds were framed by the word of God." God spoke and it came to pass.

The idea that the material world of things we see did not originate from itself. In other words, material matter did not create material matter. Man's science even knows this, as material matter can neither be created nor destroy by us, but only change its state (liquid, solid, vapor, gas).

What that means is, that something outside... this material dimension of matter had to have created the universe of matter. That means by a different... dimension than this material dimension of matter. And it suggests an invisible... dimension not seen. That something is our Heavenly Father Who dwells in an invisible dimension that we can only see if He allows it (Isaiah 6).

Science thus confirms that Hebrew 11:3 verse with GOD as The Creator of the material universe. And there's no way I could understand that without His help by The Holy Spirit.

 

[APAK]

Yes, and that comes from our Heavenly Father, His Son Jesus Christ, by The Holy Spirit.

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

That verse right there, by itself, verifies the existence of GOD.

That idea, "so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" points back to the declaration, "the worlds were framed by the word of God." God spoke and it came to pass.

The idea that the material world of things we see did not originate from itself. In other words, material matter did not create material matter. Man's science even knows this, as material matter can neither be created nor destroy by us, but only change its state (liquid, solid, vapor, gas).

What that means is, that something outside... this material dimension of matter had to have created the universe of matter. That means by a different... dimension than this material dimension of matter. And it suggests an invisible... dimension not seen. That something is our Heavenly Father Who dwells in an invisible dimension that we can only see if He allows it (Isaiah 6).

Science thus confirms that Hebrew 11:3 verse with GOD as The Creator of the material universe. And there's no way I could understand that without His help by The Holy Spirit.

Davy, stay on topic. What does Hebrews 11:3 have to do with why I send you a post in the first place.
I sent it because you said, "because God's Word declares three Persons in The Godhead."
So since you believe this statement above, can you find it in the word of God? Reasonable request right?
Maybe, Col 2:9 or Romans 1:20 is something you might want to review and explain that comes close. Does it speak to the statement you made above? Yes/no?

Thanks

 

[Davy]

Davy, stay on topic. What does Hebrews 11:3 have to do with why I send you a post in the first place.
I sent it because you said, "because God's Word declares three Persons in The Godhead."
So since you believe this statement above, can you find it in the word of God? Reasonable request right?
Maybe, Col 2:9 or Romans 1:20 is something you might want to review and explain that comes close. Does it speak to the statement you made above? Yes/no?

Thanks

I see we have another doubter here brethren.

YES, God's written Word declares the existence of The Godhead as Three Persons, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

Now if you think I'm going to show you ALL the many Bible Scriptures where EACH ONE of those THREE are declared, then GO FISH!