Righteousness

[aspen]

thinking of Hell and Heaven as actual places rather than conditions of the heart first, almost objectifies them. They do become clubs.

It is sort of like thinking about the process of dying and imagining Hospice.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Episkopos,

You've said many things in your posts in this thread which mostly I don't understand, so it's difficult to know if I agree!

My first attempt at re-reading didn't yield any light, and today I seem to be concentrating better, so at least I'm spotting specific statements which I'd like to discuss further, if that's okay - beginning in post #2.

The other level (the upper floor) of righteousness is the righteousness of God based on the knowledge of truth.

Whose knowledge of the truth? Is knowledge of the truth the same as the righteousness of God?

Jesus did not come to call the righteous to repentance.

I presume you're placing this statement where Jesus made it, namely, within His ministry to children of Israel. Right?

You are not (in your mind, or by implication) extending it to Gentiles who have never heard of Christ, of whom Paul speaks in Romans 2 quite a few years later. Nor are you extending it indefinitely down through the centuries.... because Paul when preaching in Athens said:

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:
31 Because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he has given assurance to all [men], in that he has raised him from the dead.

If a Christian is still walking in his own strength and sinning...yet claims he is righteous because of his faith AND then condemns others who are not of his religion calling their righteousness unrighteousness...then he will lose his righteous standing and be judged as unrighteous himself.

How is a Christian who is sinning, righteous? It seems to me that everything else you said in that sentence becomes irrelvant for both that reason, and the quotation from Paul - that there is no other religion by which a person can be saved, today. John 4:21, 22, 23, 24, 25.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Yahweh shall be saved.


From post #4.

I would say that one does not need to hear the gospel in order to be saved for eternity. To be saved NOW we must obey the gospel. God will save many AT JUDGMENT. But these will be surprised (and grateful) that they have been forgiven.

A saved righteous person does not have a place is the city of God. Only the saints do. You will remember that the righteous a scarcely saved... they are not in the bride. But they will attend the wedding!

Do you have scripture for any of these claims, (apart from 'To be saved now we must obey the gospel')?


This is the first tranche.... Very many thanks in advance. :)

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos,

You've said many things in your posts in this thread which mostly I don't understand, so it's difficult to know if I agree!

My first attempt at re-reading didn't yield any light, and today I seem to be concentrating better, so at least I'm spotting specific statements which I'd like to discuss further, if that's okay - beginning in post #2.



Whose knowledge of the truth? Is knowledge of the truth the same as the righteousness of God?

The knowledge of the truth is the doorway to the righteousness of God. We know the truth and it sets us free...this freedom is found within the righteousness of God.

I presume you're placing this statement where Jesus made it, namely, within His ministry to children of Israel. Right?

You are not (in your mind, or by implication) extending it to Gentiles who have never heard of Christ, of whom Paul speaks in Romans 2 quite a few years later. Nor are you extending it indefinitely down through the centuries.... because Paul when preaching in Athens said:

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:
31 Because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he has given assurance to all [men], in that he has raised him from the dead.

We have covered this before... a person who is not able to hear the gospel cannot reject it.

While there were righteous among the Jews owing to the fervency and consecration of devout people...Jesus clarified that a righteous man is known and judged by his works....like the non-Jew( Samaritan) who was an enemy of the Jews. The gospel message was always a call to general repentance. Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. All men are called to repent...but the righteous need not do so since they are already facing the proper way.

How is a Christian who is sinning, righteous? It seems to me that everything else you said in that sentence becomes irrelvant for both that reason, and the quotation from Paul - that there is no other religion by which a person can be saved, today. John 4:21, 22, 23, 24, 25.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Yahweh shall be saved.

I said CLAIMED to be righteous...

It does not say all who call on Yahweh will be eternally saved. Saved also means delivered, preserved....so we are to call on God many times as we need salvation at that time.

From post #4.






Do you have scripture for any of these claims, (apart from 'To be saved now we must obey the gospel')?


This is the first tranche.... Very many thanks in advance. :)

To understand the bigger picture you will have a lot of reading to do...The city is holy...the righteous live among the nations. Check our the last 3 chapters in Revelation.


Isa 4:3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: This is a reference to the Lamb's book of life.

:)