righteousness

[justbyfaith]

Only when we abide in Christ. It is His life that is without sin.

Galatians 2:20; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17.

 

[CharismaticLady]

How can this person ever be wrong? She is well above everyone else. And believes that the apostle John was seriously in error.

John is not the one in error. Misinterpreting him is the error, which false teachers started, and itching ears lap up. John used a style of contrasts, which westerners cannot understand and fall into gross error. And even when you are shown, you still prefer ignorance. Have it your way. It is your lives. But if you are going to accuse me falsely about John, you might like to take some advanced studies, or not and just continue to look foolish. This is not the first time you've been shown the Truth.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Apples and oranges discuss steak....the meat of the matter will evade them. Credit to you that you have the patience. Sad for Christians that they think a God was nailed to a piece of wood, and the best He could do was produce such shaky and unsure salvation. Good to know the truth, pray for those that do not. Good that we have confidence in Christ's saving grace.

Unfortunately for them, they have never experienced the power of Jesus' Spirit through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I have. So their itching ears accepts false doctrines that explain what they are experiencing - a lack of power over sin - and change the meaning of scripture to accommodate their ignorance. Thankfully, I have a thick skin and will continue to try to help them open their eyes. At least, they haven't stopped listening like Ezra, even if it is to scoff at what I say. Hopefully, they will have a light bulb moment.

Their assurance is in believing they can continue to sin and they are justified. But their assurance has a leak and they are on a sinking ship. It is 1 John 3:21-23 that tells us His assurance is given to those who keep His commandments. And the proof is in His answering our prayers.

 

[justbyfaith]

Both Jesus and John the Baptist and Paul were among those whose message was to repent of sin.

And repentance means that you turn away from your sins ("Thanks, Captain Obvious!"); which means that you don't commit them any more.

 

[Grailhunter]

@CharismaticLady @justbyfaith Hope you have a Very Merry and Blessed Christmas!

 

[justbyfaith]

@CharismaticLady @justbyfaith Hope you have a Very Merry and Blessed Christmas!

A Very Merry and Blessed Christmas to you also, @Grailhunter.

 

[Episkopos]

He may have indeed confessed all of them. But if he did, he would not have known his own soul, that it was without sin (1 John 1:7, Psalms 51:7, Job 9:21) and therefore would have never proclaimed it as a reality. See also John 9:41, Isaiah 42:19.

Job 9:21, Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.

Jhn 9:41, Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Isa 42:19, Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD'S servant?



Nevertheless, we can be righteous even as Christ is righteous (1 John 3:7), pure even as He is pure (1 John 3:3), and walk even as He walked (1 John 2:6).

btw, "sinless perfection" is a misnomer that creates a straw-man argument, easily toppled by 1 John 1:8.

The real name for what we are preaching is entire sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24). In it, sin is not eradicated from the system, so that we can say that we have no sin. Instead, it is rendered dead (Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:6, Romans 7:8) so that it has no say or authority over our behaviour or what we do.

Very well said!

The sinless perfection is found only in Christ...and they who have believed into Him attest to His grace and resurrection power over sin. They who deny His power have not known Him.

 

[Ezra]

Just say, "Thanks, Captain Obvious..."

o have nothing to say you was not there on the message i preached .i dont need your pharisee judgment

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

not sure where to post this but looking see postings on righteousness

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. i understand what christ is saying .. there is self righteousness and there is true righteousness . in isaiah 64;6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away so we know any thing we do to make us righteous .is like filthy rags which refers to discarded menstrual cloth .
we know paul wrote in philippians Christ is our righteousness
Philippians 3:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

other words we could use is justified sanctified . feel free to comment please no arguments . the moment we are saved we are declared righteous . but i will leave this question open . is that the end of righteousness for those truly saved as in nothing else to do. or is there some things in scripture we are to follow ?

Romans 10:3 "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

There is a difference between one doing his own righteousness that cannot save and doing God's righteousness that does save. Unfortunately many do not want to see this plain and obvious difference as Paul points it out in Rom 10:3 in that those Jews were lost for they went about doing their own righteousness and had not obeyed God's righteousness. Also, unfortunately many want to avoid the fact that righteousness is what one DOES and is not a mere mental assent of the mind.

Israel in Isa 64 was in iniquity and not doing God's righteousness......."and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" and " for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities". So this context specifically refers to Israel at a time when they were in iniquity and cannot be applied universally to all men. For those who do God's righteousness, we are told in Isaiah 64:5 that God meets, intreats, helps those who work His righteousness, see also Acts of the APostles 10:35 where those who worketh God's righteousness are the one's accepted with God. It's also important to note that no one was ever seen as righteous/justified by God without that person first doing/obeying God's righteous commands.

 

[marks]

Do you buy that we can go in and out of a house? Or do you think it is weird to think that when we enter into a house...we must always remain in that house?

So it is your understanding of the man-made construct of "saved" that stops you from understanding the way of salvation.

Salvation isn't a house.

Do you seek the terrestrial conventions of man to define the spiritual realities of God?

 

[Steve Owen]

Believe what you like. It is your life.

But, for you to say "covering" instead of "take away" is a sure sign you believe the false teaching

Romans 4:3-8, quoting Genesis 15:6 & Psalms 32:1-2. 'For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness." Now to him who works, the wages are not accounted as grace but as debt. Bu to him who does not work but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute iniquity."'

So to have your sins covered is to have them forgiven and means that sin will not be imputed to you, but you will be accounted righteous. Isn't it all wonderful?

No time for the rest of your post just now. I will come back to it as I have time and energy.

 

[Episkopos]

For those who do God's righteousness, we are told in Isaiah 64:5 that God meets, intreats, helps those who work His righteousness, see also Acts of the APostles 10:35 where those who worketh God's righteousness are the one's accepted with God.

You are close....but in Acts 10:35 Peter is not talking about God's righteousness....but only what God sees as righteous in people that don't even know Him.

Jesus did not come to call the righteous to repentance.

I realize that people are conditioned to add in their own interpretations into the word by adding things in...like "God's righteousness" or "Christ's righteousness" when the bible only says..."righteousness."

Or else adding in from self the word self...to make "the righteous" say "self-righteous".

So in all these cases the text is turned upside down to mean the very opposite thing.

One must be careful of adding our own understandings and brainstorming to the word.

Peace

 

[justbyfaith]

o have nothing to say you was not there on the message i preached .i dont need your pharisee judgment

Hey...

Jesus said,

Mat 5:20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And also,

Isa 56:1, Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Isa 56:2, Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Paul also wrote,

Phl 1:9, And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

And apparently you don't know what it says in James 3:1, if you consider it to be a Pharisee judgment.

 

[justbyfaith]

Concerning Romans 10:3...the context is Romans 9:30-33.

It tells us that God's righteousness is the righteousness of faith; the righteousness which is of God by faith (Philippians 3:9)...that the Jews missed out on the righteousness of God because they were attempting to obtain it through the keeping of the law. But the Gentiles obtained it because they came to the Lord in simple faith.

 

[Episkopos]

Concerning Romans 10:3...the context is Romans 9:30-33.

It tells us that God's righteousness is the righteousness of faith; the righteousness which is of God by faith (Philippians 3:9)...that the Jews missed out on the righteousness of God because they were attempting to obtain it through the keeping of the law. But the Gentiles obtained it because they came to the Lord in simple faith.

This is where attention to detail is so important. God's righteousness is NOT the righteousness of faith even though both are attained by faith.

The thief on the cross did not have God's righteousness....but he had faith. Likewise the centurion who had great faith....but he was not OF God.

Being baptized in the Spirit is only for believers...and the faith that takes them to God...in HIS presence is by a higher kind of faith. The faith OF Jesus brings us under God's righteousness. Whereas the Phoenician woman who was a "dog" in Jesus' own words...had faith but NOT God's own righteousness. A dyslexic person might confuse dog with God...but the woman had a dog's (puppy's) righteousness. Even the puppies can eat the crumbs that fall from the children's table...hardly a witness of God's level of righteousness. She had her own righteousness by faith that Jesus acknowledged.

 

[justbyfaith]

God's righteousness is NOT the righteousness of faith even though both are attained by faith.

Scripture?

I believe that the scriptures that I have mentioned (Romans 9:30-33) in context of the others (Romans 10:1-4) do substantiate what I have said about God's righteousness being the righteousness of faith (see also Philippians 3:9).

 

[Episkopos]

Scripture?

I believe that the scriptures that I have mentioned (Romans 9:30-33) in context of the others (Romans 10:1-4) do substantiate what I have said about God's righteousness being the righteousness of faith (see also Philippians 3:9).

Again...that is an interpretation due to a quick reference. But you are the one supposedly connecting the dots. Nowhere in the bible does it say that the righteousness of faith is the same thing as the righteousness of God. In fact the opposite case is to be made...seeing that humans are NOT God. And...God does not choose just anyone to be His ambassadors.

The righteousness OF God is for holy people who do the works of God by miraculous anointing. Jesus walked among us in the righteousness of God. As did Peter and Paul. But it is a HUGE stretch to say that every time a person shows faith in God they become a minister of the gospel and a worker of miracles.

Look more closely at the text...without the pre-conceived idea that men and God are the same.

 

[justbyfaith]

Rom 9:30, What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31, But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32, Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33, As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:1, Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom 10:2, For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3, For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4, For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Phl 3:9, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[Episkopos]

Rom 9:30, What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31, But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32, Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Part 1. Where do you read that the Gentiles now all have the righteousness that God has??? Where do you add the word "God" in there that is not there...on purpose?

Rom 10:3, For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4, For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Part 2. NOW we are talking about God's judgment. The Jews...just like most modern Christians do NOT go to God for His judgment...they go by human opinions...just as the Jews did before them.

Exactly the same.

So then these...like we...have not submitted themselves to God's righteousness...His judgments. But instead these follow their own judgments.

Phl 3:9, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Part 3 The key here is IN HIM....I don't think you are seeing this. An average person that believes in a deity is not at all the same as somebody who is walking in resurrection power doing miracles as Jesus did. That's the problem with evangelicalism. No sense of reality.

The way into God is by faith. Paul doesn't say...the righteousness of faith which is from God.....he says the opposite (which appears the same to people who don't understand opposites)....the righteousness of GOD which is by faith.

So you are making faith and God to be the same thing. But faith is faith and God is God. Don't confuse these two biblical sounding words for the vast difference of these in reality.

 

[marks]

This is where attention to detail is so important. God's righteousness is NOT the righteousness of faith even though both are attained by faith.

Agreed . . . attention to detail is very important!

Philippians 3:8b-9
"that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith"

Much love!