serious?????????????? after 20 years you think i dont know that ? are you my holy spirit
righteousness
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I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with this stuff which is pretty basic and found in several commentaries. It does not alter the fact that 1 John 1:8-10 is in the Bible. Note that John uses the 1st Person Plural, 'We.' John is including himself with his readers. If John and his readers say that they have no sin, they are deceiving themselves. Therefore they confess their sins and are forgiven. If they were to suggest that they had not sinned, they would be making God out to be a liar. Was John a liar? If he wasn't he had sins that he needed to confess.
The fact that the Present Tense in Greek denotes continuity is also pretty basic and is found in any Greek grammar, and in every commentary on 1 John that I possess. To continue in a sin is to be walking in darkness, so we need to be confessing our sins and to be putting them to death (Colossians 3:5). However, we will never be rid of them (cf. Romans 7:22-23; Galatians 5:17), which is why we need to be constantly confessing them, and if you are not confessing your sins because you think you don't have any, well........just read 1 John 1:8-10 again, particularly noting the portions that you have underlined.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
You are welcome. I was curious to know what you thought of my post : ) I hope it didn't come off like another wild rabbit chase.
Hope your message went well, and blessings in Christ.
Hidden
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, WE must all test ourselves to see if we are of God. It is a teaching. Of course 1 John 1:8-10 is in the Bible, but so is 1 John 1:6 the key to unlocking the truth that 8 and 10 are before conversion. Verse 9 is how to become a Christian. Ever since Adam sinned, we are all born with a sin nature (except Christ because He was born from the seed of God 1 John 3:9). Confessing our sins after coversion? Don't you know we have been given power to no longer commit sins of lawlessness? Why sin if you don't have to. 1 John 1:9 is the same as Acts 2:38. It is to receive the powerful Holy Spirit, the gift of Jesus to take away all desire to sin. He who still sins is a slave to sin. Romans 6 and John 8:34-36 and 1 John 3. To enter heaven we must already be righteous or holy. And that doesn't mean the false teaching of an invisibility cloak of the blood of Jesus covering our sin while we continue to sin underneath. We must have the Holy Spirit in us working through us to perfection. Revelation 22:11
This is just wrong. The whole passage is written in the Present Tense. He's not saying, "If we used to say that we had no sin we would have been deceiving ourselves and the truth would not have been in us," which is what you're trying to make him say, but the grammar of the text won't let you do it.
Your own righteousness is filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6), quite unable to cover up your sin. You cannot stand before God dressed in that.
'......That I may gain Christ, and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith............Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected, but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me..........' (Philippians 3:8-12).
'I will greatly rejoice in the LORD,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness.....' (Isaiah 61:10).
The very first couple, when they fell into sin, needed a covering for that sin. The covering that they made themselves was totally unsuitable; God could see right through it to the sin beneath (Genesis 3:7ff). It was God Himself who supplied a covering for the guilty couple, and for that, and innocent creature had to die (Genesis 3:21), prefiguring the suffering and death of the Lord Jesus Christ to provide us with a suitable covering.
Why do we try to make things more complicated than they are?
God first declares us righteous (imputed righteousness), and then works out His righteousness in us by the power of the Holy Spirit. That is called walking in the Spirit.
This does not mean that anyone will be sinlessly perfect (as some deluded, self-deceived individuals claim). It does mean that sin must not and cannot have dominion over righteousness for those who are genuinely saved.
How can this person ever be wrong? She is well above everyone else. And believes that the apostle John was seriously in error.
Actually why get Jesus involved right? You can do all that you stated on your own...that's why you believe in it....God's not in it. No miraculous power, no grace....just self-effort. As if God is powerless over sin. So then if you sin...God's NOT in it.
Why make things more truthful than they are?
God only imputes righteousness to they who act righteously. There is no pretend righteousness.
When we enter into Christ we take on His UN-SINFUL life and righteousness...in HIS holiness. No one can sin and claim to be God's righteousness. But many falsely claim to sin IN Christ's righteousness...which isn't possible because in Him is NO sin!
So then they who don't believe in that salvation and DENY His power over sin are yet unbelievers. We need to avoid these people as the bible states. Having an outward form of godliness (like Pharisees) but who deny God's power. (grace)
Nonsense. How can WE be the righteousness of God in Him if we sin? In Him is no sin.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
LoL! Well, it's probably still there if you ever decide to do some backtracking <chuckle> : )
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Believe what you like. It is your life.
But, for you to say "covering" instead of "take away" is a sure sign you believe the false teaching, even morphing God's clothing for a covering for Adam and Eve to be sufficient to cover their sin. Wrong. That is comparable only to the blood of bulls and goats if it applies at all. And just as with the OT sacrifices, their sin was still there. And that is what you believe also with the blood of Jesus! That the sins are only covered, not taken away! What a heresy.
Hebrews 10:4 "4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
1 John 3:5 "5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." Of course, that is the verse you tried to change.
You mentioned commentaries, but not what they say? Need to know whose commentary you are reading instead of the Word of God.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Apples and oranges discuss steak....the meat of the matter will evade them. Credit to you that you have the patience. Sad for Christians that they think a God was nailed to a piece of wood, and the best He could do was produce such shaky and unsure salvation. Good to know the truth, pray for those that do not. Good that we have confidence in Christ's saving grace.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Romans 4:15 “for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there violation.”
1st John 3:9 “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
1st John 5:18 “We know of no one that is born of God sins; but he who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him.”
Romans 4:7&8 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, and whose sins have been covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
Romans 5:13 “For until the Law sin was in the world; sin is not imputed when there is no Law.”
This one is important but long, basically chapter 6. Romans 6:1 “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be! How shall we who died in sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in the newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin…….10 & 11 “For the death that He died, He did to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Jesus Christ. 14 “For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the law, but under grace” 18 “Being then free from sin, you become the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 7:8 “But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.”
Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath me free from the law of sin and death.”
2nd Corinthians 5:21 “He made Him that knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him”
1st John 3:9 “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
1st John 5:18 “We know of no one that is born of God sins; but he who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him.”
Romans 4:7&8 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, and whose sins have been covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
Romans 5:13 “For until the Law sin was in the world; sin is not imputed when there is no Law.”
This one is important but long, basically chapter 6. Romans 6:1 “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be! How shall we who died in sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in the newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin…….10 & 11 “For the death that He died, He did to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Jesus Christ. 14 “For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the law, but under grace” 18 “Being then free from sin, you become the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 7:8 “But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.”
Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath me free from the law of sin and death.”
2nd Corinthians 5:21 “He made Him that knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him”
He may have indeed confessed all of them. But if he did, he would not have known his own soul, that it was without sin (1 John 1:7, Psalms 51:7, Job 9:21) and therefore would have never proclaimed it as a reality. See also John 9:41, Isaiah 42:19.
Job 9:21, Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
Jhn 9:41, Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
Isa 42:19, Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD'S servant?
Nevertheless, we can be righteous even as Christ is righteous (1 John 3:7), pure even as He is pure (1 John 3:3), and walk even as He walked (1 John 2:6).
btw, "sinless perfection" is a misnomer that creates a straw-man argument, easily toppled by 1 John 1:8.
The real name for what we are preaching is entire sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24). In it, sin is not eradicated from the system, so that we can say that we have no sin. Instead, it is rendered dead (Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:6, Romans 7:8) so that it has no say or authority over our behaviour or what we do.
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Only when we abide in Christ. It is His life that is without sin.
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