Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth

[Prentis]

Many people also believe to follow the word, but they do not because they do not follow the work of the Spirit as we are told to. :)

Here's the thing, Insight, I do agree that the word is very important. God can provide if one doesn't have it, but if we have it, it is like a map, and the spirit like a compass. We need both. But it is the Spirit we follow, while the word confirms and teaches us, or rather, God through it.

 

[Insight]

Here's the thing, Insight, I do agree that the word is very important.

Still not there Prentis but you are moving closer to truth each time!

Maybe you could use words like essential for salvation or the power of salvation or word of salvation or the Word came by the Spirit and its the Word that gives life.

But keep going.

God blessed me with some measure of patience.

Praised be to God and His Most Holy Blameless Word!!!

Insight

 

[whirlwind]

It is the Lord who reveals it by his Spirit. Yes, scripture is one of the Lord's instruments to reveal it to us, but as always it is by his spirit.

As James said, if any of you lack wisdom, ask the Lord to grant you this. Wisdom is not head knowledge, and neither is revelation.

The scriptures is like a map, but without the compass, the Spirit, we are lost. Again, Christ IS the bread of life, he IS the truth, he IS the life.

There is much wisdom in your words...especially for one so young. I agree with your thought.



.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Still not there Prentis but you are moving closer to truth each time!

Maybe you could use words like essential for salvation or the power of salvation or word of salvation or the Word came by the Spirit and its the Word that gives life.

But keep going.

God blessed me with some measure of patience.

Praised be to God and His Most Holy Blameless Word!!!

Insight

Insight, what exactly is your main problem, here?

Prentis made it clear exactly what he believes about this...

Insight, I agree with what Vengle said. :)

1. that the Word is just ink on a page.
2. that the Word cannot save

Here is what I am saying. 1. Words written in the Bible have no power just by being ink on paper, but it is the spirit of God that gives life to them. 2. Merely reading the word cannot save, otherwise with the amount of Bibles around, the world would be swallowed up in glory already, if you get what I mean.

I greatly respect the word, and believe it to be from the Lord. But I think it important that we understand that it is by the Spirit that all things are brought into effect. The Lord can speak NOW, and what he says come to pass, as it was in Genesis. :)

And he is correct.

Why is it so important to you that he convey HIS feelings/beliefs with YOUR words?

At this point, I have to agree with Vengle's take (Expressed in post #17) on this situation.

 

[Insight]

Insight, what exactly is your main problem, here?

Prentis made it clear exactly what he believes about this...

Hi Gypsy

This all started when Prentis made a very poor statement, which by the way he is yet to correct.

Prenits wrote:

Once again, your whole premise is wrong. All life comes from God, and all things were created in Christ, from him we draw life, not the scriptures.

This comment goes against Paul & Peter's teaching in 2 Tim 3:15 & 2 Peter 1:21

He also is denying the Power which alone is found in the Spoken Word of God. Gen 1:2,3 "God said...."

This statement aims to lessen the importance of the Scriptures and their purpose to save. John 6:63.

He also denies the Word as recorded in the Scriptures is the Spirit as Jesus taught many times over.

"John the apostle says, 'the spirit is the truth’ and that truth can only be found in the Scriptures.

I am waiting for Prentis to acknowledge this fact i.e The Word of God is His Power and that Power is within the Scriptures when these commands take possession of the mind and bring us into harmony with the thinking of God this is life and peace.

John learnt this from Jesus, and I am trying to teach Prentis the same lesson. Now Prentis has half the story which I have agreed; I am waiting for him to acknowledge the second truth.

1. “It is the spirit that quickeneth:

And then Jesus goes on to define the Spirit…

2 “the words (as recorded in the Scriptures) that I speak unto you are spirit and life”

Like His Father Jesus knew the Power was in the spoken word, hence faith comes only by hearing the Scriptures Rom 10:17.

Now the apostles understood the power of the Scriptures but Prentis does not. His above comment has been taken to task in the hope of him acknowledging their true place in our lives.

Peter declared that the “words” he delivered were 'the words of eternal life' i.e The Scriptures.

Paul's testimony upon this point is equally forcible: 'The word of God' saith he, 'is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart'.

Where do we go to get such powerful words?

The Scriptures of Truth.

Another point in mention is his denial of the Word and Spirit being one. This Word was developed and given by the Spirit moving holy men of old to write the purposes, promises and teaching of God in a Book called the Scriptures. Hence the truth revealed in these is styled 'Spirit', because it came by spirit, and is quickening. He that is quickened by the truth, then, is quickened by spirit, and he that is not quickened by the truth, is not quickened by spirit.

Prentis attitude towards the Scriptures is in error for he cannot place his confidence in the Spirit and despise the Word (as per his above quote)

Conclusion:

Paul declares the “converting” power is the scripture which is given by inspiration of God, in testifying that it is able to make “wise to salvation” through the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

From Prentis’ comment it appears he is not satisfied that the Scriptures can can make him wise for salvation.

Paul taught the Scriptures (when understood in faith) in the mouth of faithful men can teach others a saving message.

He says, 'it is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. Scriptures are profitable for what?
​

1. Teaching
2. Correction
3. Instruction in righteousness
4. Can bring perfection before God
5. Salvation

My suggestion for Prentis and anyone who holds similiar beliefs are this.

Anyone who is taught of the written word, is taught of God; and that a man hath as much of the Spirit of God in him, as he has truth in him which is understood in mind and lovingly believed.

I will wait for Prentis to amend his comment as per 2 Tim 3:15 and 2 Peter 1:21 Rom 10:17 John 6:63 Gen 1:2,3 and so on...

 

[Prentis]

Jesus doesn't say the 'words recorded in scripture', he says the 'words that I SPEAK to you', and those weren't recorded in scripture yet, by the way. He quoted scripture, but he also said many things that weren't directly said in scripture, like in the sermon on the mount.

I do not retract what I said, because all life does come from God. :)

When Jesus speaks words, his life and power is within them. The scriptures are a record of those words.

We must seek the life of God, he speaks to us today and gives us life today. Through the Bible? It is definitely one of his ways of doing it.

I have shown you I agree with what Timothy says, but I agree with it in a way that also agrees with this, where as you don't:
[sup]19[/sup]But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
[sup]20[/sup]For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

You confuse the words a man speaks, and the power behind them. Otherwise, when men who did not follow Jesus tried to cast out demons, it would of worked, but rather the demon attacked them, because they did not have the Spirit.

We were born of one Spirit, not one Bible. :)

 

[Insight]

Jesus doesn't say the 'words recorded in scripture',

Pride comes before a fall.

Where are his words recorded Prentis?

 

[Prentis]

When he said them, where they recorded or audible?

The scriptures are the word of the Lord, but the life is in the Spirit. Otherwise just repeating them would somehow be magical! But we both know it isn't so.

 

[Insight]

[sup]20[/sup]For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

Once again you are taught the elementary things of God...But will you listen?

Paul is saying from the Word mind you :)

The kingdom of God is not only what you say, but also (and especially) what you do!

You know Prentis...be ye doers of the Word (Scriptures)

When he said them, where they recorded or audible?

The scriptures are the word of the Lord, but the life is in the Spirit. Otherwise just repeating them would somehow be magical! But we both know it isn't so.

Once again Prentis where are Jesus Words recorded?

When he said them, where they recorded or audible?

Otherwise just repeating them would somehow be magical!

So you are saying by preaching the Word of the Gospel (Audible) they have no power at all?

From here you are going from bad to worse Prentis.

 

[Prentis]

Once again, are they audible or are they written down when he says it?

Does reading the word transform people? Can you say it does as a rule, always? Or is there some other force at work?

 

[Insight]

Once again, are they audible or are they written down when he says it?

Does reading the word transform people? Can you say it does as a rule, always? Or is there some other force at work?

You might like to answer the previous post...it appears you have yourself in a bind.

Best we unravel this mess before we see further entanglement.

So far we have you on record as saying:

1. The (Word) Scriptures cannot save
2. They have no power
3. Jesus Words are not found within the Scriptures

Let’s fix this mess first Prentis.



Insight

Once again, are they audible or are they written down when he says it?

Does reading the word transform people? Can you say it does as a rule, always? Or is there some other force at work?

Rom 10:17KJV Answers your question.

Where do we get faith Prentis? Some ethereal power floating in the sky? A gust of wind?

BTW Prentis...Where do we go to get the Word of God?

Prentis,

If I may, allow me to correct your statement which I took offence.

Prenits wrote:

All life comes from God, and all things were created in Christ, from him we draw life, this "life" can be obtained in the scriptures (the Living Word of truth).
.
As per Jesus spoken and written words as recorded for us by the Spirit (that same Word) in the Bible as per John 6:63 Rom 10:17 2 Tim 3:15 2 Peter 1:21 and so on...

Now that wasnt hard...was it?

I would have preferred it come from you Prentis

The Power is in the Word of God...in His Word alone...Jesus knew this, David knew this and hopefully after this you will also appreciate this and take it to heart.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Hi Gypsy

This all started when Prentis made a very poor statement, which by the way he is yet to correct.



This comment goes against Paul & Peter's teaching in 2 Tim 3:15 & 2 Peter 1:21

He also is denying the Power which alone is found in the Spoken Word of God. Gen 1:2,3 "God said...."

This statement aims to lessen the importance of the Scriptures and their purpose to save. John 6:63.

He also denies the Word as recorded in the Scriptures is the Spirit as Jesus taught many times over.

"John the apostle says, 'the spirit is the truth’ and that truth can only be found in the Scriptures.

I am waiting for Prentis to acknowledge this fact i.e The Word of God is His Power and that Power is within the Scriptures when these commands take possession of the mind and bring us into harmony with the thinking of God this is life and peace.

John learnt this from Jesus, and I am trying to teach Prentis the same lesson. Now Prentis has half the story which I have agreed; I am waiting for him to acknowledge the second truth.

1. “It is the spirit that quickeneth:

And then Jesus goes on to define the Spirit…

2 “the words (as recorded in the Scriptures) that I speak unto you are spirit and life”

Like His Father Jesus knew the Power was in the spoken word, hence faith comes only by hearing the Scriptures Rom 10:17.

Now the apostles understood the power of the Scriptures but Prentis does not. His above comment has been taken to task in the hope of him acknowledging their true place in our lives.

Peter declared that the “words” he delivered were 'the words of eternal life' i.e The Scriptures.

Paul's testimony upon this point is equally forcible: 'The word of God' saith he, 'is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart'.

Where do we go to get such powerful words?

The Scriptures of Truth.

Another point in mention is his denial of the Word and Spirit being one. This Word was developed and given by the Spirit moving holy men of old to write the purposes, promises and teaching of God in a Book called the Scriptures. Hence the truth revealed in these is styled 'Spirit', because it came by spirit, and is quickening. He that is quickened by the truth, then, is quickened by spirit, and he that is not quickened by the truth, is not quickened by spirit.

Prentis attitude towards the Scriptures is in error for he cannot place his confidence in the Spirit and despise the Word (as per his above quote)

Conclusion:

Paul declares the “converting” power is the scripture which is given by inspiration of God, in testifying that it is able to make “wise to salvation” through the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

From Prentis’ comment it appears he is not satisfied that the Scriptures can can make him wise for salvation.

Paul taught the Scriptures (when understood in faith) in the mouth of faithful men can teach others a saving message.

He says, 'it is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. Scriptures are profitable for what?
​

1. Teaching
2. Correction
3. Instruction in righteousness
4. Can bring perfection before God
5. Salvation

My suggestion for Prentis and anyone who holds similiar beliefs are this.

Anyone who is taught of the written word, is taught of God; and that a man hath as much of the Spirit of God in him, as he has truth in him which is understood in mind and lovingly believed.

I will wait for Prentis to amend his comment as per 2 Tim 3:15 and 2 Peter 1:21 Rom 10:17 John 6:63 Gen 1:2,3 and so on...

Insight...I understand what you are saying however...IMO...you are getting caught up in semantics.

You DO know those "scriptures" you are quoting did not even exist back then, right?

 

[Insight]

Insight...I understand what you are saying however...IMO...you are getting caught up in semantics.

You DO know those "scriptures" you are quoting did not even exist back then, right?

That's not the point I am making.

In the Beginning God spoke Words (when no one was around to hear them) but the Words themselves contain the Power.

When God Speaks things happen.

Now God has recorded these words for us in these last days Rom 1:1,2,3?

Now whether those Words are spoken, learnt by wrote, written on a handkerchief, written in sand, inscribe on papyrus...

They have been recorded? Why? Rom 15:4 2 Tim 3:15 Rom 10:17

Because there is no other way but via the Scriptures that we can have faith.

I will say it again – No other way that we can be saved except through an understanding of the Word of God as recorded and preserved in the Holy Scriptures…called the Bible (Biblios)

BTW Gypsy, has God spoken to you through a burning bush lately? Has he guided you through the wilderness by a cloud & fire? Have you seen an Angel or spoken to one? Has God spoken personally to you in visions?

It is not for me (His servant) to question how or why God choose to place the knowledge of salvation in a book.

But the Words of God and Christ are recorded for our learning Rom 15:4 – Prentis can speak out against this work – But I Fear Yahweh, His Son and their Word.

Eph 6:17

and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, (That is the Holy Scriptures)

 

[THE Gypsy]

That's not the point I am making.

In the Beginning God spoke Words (when no one was around to hear them) but the Words themselves contain the Power.

When God Speaks things happen.

Now God has recorded these words for us in these last days Rom 1:1,2,3?

Now whether those Words are spoken, learnt by wrote, written on a handkerchief, written in sand, inscribe on papyrus...

They have been recorded? Why? Rom 15:4 2 Tim 3:15 Rom 10:17

Because there is no other way but via the Scriptures that we can have faith.

I will say it again – No other way that we can be saved except through an understanding of the Word of God as recorded and preserved in the Holy Scriptures…called the Bible (Biblios)

BTW Gypsy, has God spoken to you through a burning bush lately? Has he guided you through the wilderness by a cloud & fire? Have you seen an Angel or spoken to one? Has God spoken personally to you in visions?

It is not for me (His servant) to question how or why God choose to place the knowledge of salvation in a book.

But the Words of God and Christ are recorded for our learning Rom 15:4 – Prentis can speak out against this work – But I Fear Yahweh, His Son and their Word.

Eph 6:17

and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, (That is the Holy Scriptures)

You're playing word games.

In the following quote, Prentis, in meekness and humility, cleared up any misconceptions he made have left.

Insight, I agree with what Vengle said. :)

1. that the Word is just ink on a page.
2. that the Word cannot save

Here is what I am saying. 1. Words written in the Bible have no power just by being ink on paper, but it is the spirit of God that gives life to them. 2. Merely reading the word cannot save, otherwise with the amount of Bibles around, the world would be swallowed up in glory already, if you get what I mean.

I greatly respect the word, and believe it to be from the Lord. But I think it important that we understand that it is by the Spirit that all things are brought into effect. The Lord can speak NOW, and what he says come to pass, as it was in Genesis. :)

That's not the point I am making.

In the Beginning God spoke Words (when no one was around to hear them) but the Words themselves contain the Power.

When God Speaks things happen.

Now God has recorded these words for us in these last days Rom 1:1,2,3?

Now whether those Words are spoken, learnt by wrote, written on a handkerchief, written in sand, inscribe on papyrus...

They have been recorded? Why? Rom 15:4 2 Tim 3:15 Rom 10:17

No one is disputing that. However, Prentis was correct in saying the Bible cannot "save". Do you believe there is another way for salvation other than the blood of Christ?

Because there is no other way but via the Scriptures that we can have faith.

I disagree. I came, by faith, to the cross and accepted the death and resurrection of Christ and therefore my salvation. The "words printed on paper in ink" had nothing to do with it. Now...My faith GREW through the Scriptures, however, they were not involved in my salvation...Only the blood of Christ can do that.

I will say it again – No other way that we can be saved except through an understanding of the Word of God as recorded and preserved in the Holy Scriptures…called the Bible (Biblios)

You are incorrect. "No man comes to the Father but by me." NOWHERE does God, or Jesus, say "No man comes to the Father but through the reading of the scriptures".

BTW Gypsy, has God spoken to you through a burning bush lately?

No.

Has he guided you through the wilderness by a cloud & fire?

No.

Have you seen an Angel or spoken to one?

Yes and yes.

Has God spoken personally to you in visions?

Yes.

It is not for me (His servant) to question how or why God choose to place the knowledge of salvation in a book.

Unlike other forms of knowledge..."The knowledge of salvation" is placed in the "heart" and one can never receive it through a "book".

But the Words of God and Christ are recorded for our learning Rom 15:4 – Prentis can speak out against this work – But I Fear Yahweh, His Son and their Word.

That is true and I have not heard Prentis say otherwise.

Eph 6:17

and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, (That is the Holy Scriptures)

And? That has nothing to do with the act of salvation itself and everything to do with Gods' instruction to us for growth.

 

[Insight]

Gypsy

I agree with most of what you say.

Of course you would not know the Blood of Christ if it were not for the Scriptures. And the Blood of Jesus could not save if it were not for the Word of God that purified him.

Either way...everything you know about God, Christ, The blood, Faith, Life, Creation, Angels everything, is as a result of the Word of Truth as recorded in your Bible styled the Spirit
(i.e The Scriptures).

BTW please do not follow Prentis’ foolish taunts of “ink on a page”! Rom 10:17 should teach you their use!

That “Word of Reconciliation” is able to save you through faith in Christ Jesus. 2 Cor 2:19

It is the Implanted Word; the incorruptible seed which can only give life.

The seed is in His Word.

Rom 7:25 then applies.

Insight

 

[THE Gypsy]

Gypsy

I agree with most of what you say.

Of course you would not know the Blood of Christ if it were not for the Scriptures. And the Blood of Jesus could not save if it were not for the Word of God that purified him.

Either way...everything you know about God, Christ, The blood, Faith, Life, Creation, Angels everything, is as a result of the Word of Truth as recorded in your Bible styled the Spirit
(i.e The Scriptures).

BTW please do not follow Prentis’ foolish taunts of “ink on a page”! Rom 10:17 should teach you their use!

That “Word of Reconciliation” is able to save you through faith in Christ Jesus. 2 Cor 2:19

It is the Implanted Word; the incorruptible seed which can only give life.

The seed is in His Word.

Rom 7:25 then applies.

Insight

With all due respect...There is only one way to be saved and...If you do not have the basics of salvation down, nothing else you say or do matters much.

 

[Insight]

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Where do you get Faith from?

Rom 10:17 "Faith comes from hearing and hearing comes from the Word of God"

Where is the Word of God found?

The Scriptures 2 Tim 3:15 2 Peter 1:21 John 6:63 Rom 1:12,3 Heb 1:1,2,3 and so on....

With all due respect...these are not my words...they belong to God.

 

[Prentis]

You make a false association when you basically say the word of God is scriptures, and scriptures is the word of God exclusively.

The Lord HIMSELF spoke to people. Ananias did not read the scriptures to be told 'go to a street called straight', he heard it from the Lord himself! (Acts 8)

Is this extinct, Insight? Does this not happen anymore?

Salvation is in Christ, the Word, not scriptures, though the scriptures testify of him.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Where do you get Faith from?

Rom 10:17 "Faith comes from hearing and hearing comes from the Word of God"

Where is the Word of God found?

The Scriptures 2 Tim 3:15 2 Peter 1:21 John 6:63 Rom 1:12,3 Heb 1:1,2,3 and so on....

With all due respect...these are not my words...they belong to God.

We're discussing SALVATION not GROWTH.

 

[Insight]

You make a false association when you basically say the word of God is scriptures, and scriptures is the word of God exclusively.

Not I Prentis...your accusation is against God Himself and the Holy Men of Old who recorded the Fathers Words for us to digest and live by.

Is the Word of God the Scriptures and the Scriptures the Word of God exclusively?

If by what you mean do the Scriptures limit Gods Word, no! of course not, there are books being recorded right now as I type. The Book of Life and the Book of Lives for instance…but they are not given to us now that we may be saved. Is the Word of God working through the Angels right now, of course! Is that same Word given that we may be saved? And is the same Word of Hope being spoken? Yes!

But that is not what we are discussing.

You said the Scriptures had no part at all in salvation.

I am waiting for you to retract that comment.

Can I ask you something Prentis?

Can you explain how James 1:18 works?

How do you personally receive the implanted Word? Which reveals to you salvation in Jesus Christ etc. Where do you go and what does it work? I suggest Phil 2:5 may assist.

How do you get this mind?

The Lord HIMSELF spoke to people. Ananias did not read the scriptures to be told 'go to a street called straight', he heard it from the Lord himself! (Acts 8)
Is this extinct, Insight? Does this not happen anymore?
Salvation is in Christ, the Word, not scriptures, though the scriptures testify of him.

Ok.I see where you are going.

How did you know about the Spirit of God working through people? You refer to the Scripture, but refute its power? Where did you get this knowledge?

Its in Acts 9:11 where we are told 'go to a street called straight’

Well let’s see if we can find the Word of God at work shall we?

Well, you may find it of interest that Ananias means "Yah shall be gracious". Of course that Graciousness comes through hearing a message of Salvation – we call that the Gospel of Good News of the Kingdom of God. It’s recorded in the Bible, delivered by the Spirit Word called the Scriptures, and the message is powerful to convert men’s hearts and bring them to salvation.

Now God selected Ananias for an important role in the development of the conversion of Saul; by the outworking of Gods Word He had protected him, becuase Ananias needed comfort from the danger of this reputed Judaiser (See Acts 9:13,14).

"and to him said the Lord in a vision" Acts 9:10

What did Jesus use to communicate this comfort and command?

"and to him said the Lord in a vision"

What did he use? Words? John 6:63? What Words? And where did they come from? The Spirit? The same Spirit working out the same purpose as revealed in the Bible and delivered to you today?

Yes Prentis!

Or do you believe there is still a mystery? That the Bible cannot provide you everything that pertains to godliness and salvation?

Do you believe the Bible is not enough for you to work out your salvation with trembling and fear? Is another independent message required for you to be saved?

Was it not God and His Word who taught Paul the exact same Gospel message of Salvation that you believe today? Of a coming Kingdom? Of Glory? Or was the Word given to Paul a different message one we don’t know?

The truth of the matter is this.

The Scriptures are able to make one wise and able to by faith enter a covenant and teach us to pray and grow in faith and love. The message comes from the heart of God and defines His very being.

God has deemed it enough for us to "know" intellectually and experientially salvation.

Those who understand the power of the Word, like Ananias treasure the wisdom and knowledge and they respond to the Word of Truth whether written on a page or spoken through an angel, or in a vision – The Word is the Word in whatever form it comes.

"Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord"

By the Word and its inner working we can develop a Spirit of willing service which was seen in the character of Abraham (Gen 22:1, 11) and Samuel (1 Sam. 3:4,10).

Because of the implanted Word in Ananias he was immediately receptive to the divine will.

Without this implanted Word which comes from the Scriptures, no man woman or child will show such a character which is pleasing to God.

Rom 10:17 Still stands!

We're discussing SALVATION not GROWTH.

Are you saying you can be saved without faith?

Surely not!