Romans 11:25-27. New prophecy about the future or old prophecy about an ongoing reality?

[Charlie24]

Oxymoron, they are lost but still God's chosen

"Big Smiles"!

"Christian Zionism" on full display

There are 2 groups in the world (1. saved) destined forth eternal kingdom (2. unsaved)and destined for the lake of fire

Have it your way, you will be humbled in due time!

 

[Charlie24]

The Olive Tree Is "Jesus Christ" not a Nation named Israel in a geographical location

The Church is the Israel of God as Romans 9:6-8 clearly teaches, those Jews whom God has called through foreknowledge will be saved and grafted into Jesus Christ the olive tree and added to the Church on earth

Truth, you seriously need some Scripture lessons!

Did not Paul say that the branches of the olive tree all get their strength from the root, which is Christ?

The Olive tree is Israel, the chosen of God, and you are a wild olive branch that has been grafted in with them!

 

[Truth7t7]

Truth, you seriously need some Scripture lessons!

Did not Paul say that the branches of the olive tree all get their strength from the root, which is Christ?

The Olive tree is Israel, the chosen of God, and you are a wild olive branch that has been grafted in with them!

When Israel rejected the chief corner stone Jesus Christ, the Kingdom of God was taken from Israel and given to the Holy Nation "The Church"

Your claim Israel In Ethnic Jews is presently God's chosen is once again "Laughable"!

Matthew21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The Church, A Holy Nation

1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[Charlie24]

When Israel rejected the chief corner stone Jesus Christ, the Kingdom of God was taken from Israel and given to the Holy Nation "The Church"

Your claim Israel In Ethnic Jews is presently God's chosen is once again "Laughable"!

Matthew21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The Church, A Holy Nation

1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

It's passages like this that are found throughout the Scripture that you ignore, or don't even know exist.

Isaiah 14:1-3

"For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the Lord for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,"

The world is going to see a huge flip in power. The "times of the Gentiles" will be over, and guess who will reign supreme?

 

[Truth7t7]

The Olive tree is Israel, the chosen of God, and you are a wild olive branch that has been grafted in with them!

Your claim is "False" Jesus Christ is the root and the olive tree, Unbelieving Israel are "Branches" that were broken off, once again "Branches" not the root or olive tree as you falsely claim

Jesus Christ Is (The Root) and (The Olive Tree)

Romans 11:17-21KJV
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

 

[Charlie24]

Your claim us "False" Jesus Christ is the root and tree, Unbelieving Israel are "Branches" that were broken off, once again "Branches" not the root or olive tree as you falsely claim

Jesus Christ Is (The Root) and (The Olive Tree)

Romans 11:17-21KJV
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

LOL, now at least you are admitting the branches are Israel instead of Christ as you said before.

You are making progress!

 

[Truth7t7]

It's passages like this that are found throughout the Scripture that you ignore, or don't even know exist.

Isaiah 14:1-3

"For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the Lord for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,"

The world is going to see a huge flip in power. The "times of the Gentiles" will be over, and guess who will reign supreme?

The prophecy you quote once again surrounds the king of Babylon, and King Ahaz of Israel "Fulfilled" long ago

Your claims this prophecy in Isaiah Chapter 14:1-4 represents future events upon this earth is "False"

Charlie you are desperate to create a future Zionist Kingdom on this earth where Jews rule, pulling scripture out of context in total disregard

Isaiah 14:4 & 28KJV
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.

 

[Truth7t7]

LOL, now at least you are admitting the branches are Israel instead of Christ as you said before.

You are making progress!

At no time did I claim "Jesus Christ" was the "Branches" as you "Falsely Claim"!

As My Post #17 in this string clearly claimed, "The Olive Tree Is Jesus Christ"

Quote Truth7t7 Post #17

"The Olive Tree Is "Jesus Christ" not a Nation named Israel in a geographical location"

 

[Charlie24]

The prophecy you quote once again surrounds the Babylonian Captivity and Israel returning to Jerusalem the Golden City "Fulfilled" long ago

Your claims this prophecy in Isaiah Chapter 14:1-4 represents future events upon this earth is "False"

Isaiah 14:4KJV
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Isaiah is looking back at the Babylonian empire and comparing them to the coming anti-christ.

He said, "that you shall take up this proverb against the King of Babylon," referring the this king as the anti-christ who will be destroyed and cast into hell.

At the Second Coming Christ destroys the anti-christ, who is at that very moment destroying Israel. This is when Israel will see that Jesus is the Messiah, it's when they are all saved as Paul said.

Then is the fulfillment of Israel in the 3 verses I've shown you! All Israel will be saved and will rule over this world for 1000 years with Christ. All the nations of the world will send representatives to Jerusalem and will have to go through the Jews to get to Christ. If not, they will receive no rain as Zechariah said.

 

[Charlie24]

At no time did I claim "Jesus Christ" was the "Branches" as you "Falsely Claim"!

As My Post #17 in this string clearly claimed, "The Olive Tree Is Jesus Christ"

Quote Truth7t7 Post #17

"The Olive Tree Is "Jesus Christ" not a Nation named Israel in a geographical location"

You didn't? Then why did you say this in post #17

"The Olive Tree Is "Jesus Christ" not a Nation named Israel in a geographical location"

 

[Truth7t7]

Isaiah is looking back at the Babylonian empire and comparing them to the coming anti-christ.

He said, "that you shall take up this proverb against the King of Babylon," referring the this king as the anti-christ who will be destroyed and cast into hell.

At the Second Coming Christ destroys the anti-christ, who is at that very moment destroying Israel. This is when Israel will see that Jesus is the Messiah, it's when they are all saved as Paul said.

Then is the fulfillment of Israel in the 3 verses I've shown you! All Israel will be saved and will rule over this world for 1000 years with Christ. All the nations of the world will send representatives to Jerusalem and will have to go through the Jews to get to Christ. If not, they will receive no rain as Zechariah said.

My response was revised just prior to your response

The prophecy you quote once again surrounds the king of Babylon, and King Ahaz of Israel "Fulfilled" long ago

Your claims this prophecy in Isaiah Chapter 14:1-4 represents future events upon this earth is "False"

Charlie you are desperate to create a future Zionist Kingdom on this earth where Jews rule, pulling scripture out of context in total disregard

"The Year That King Ahaz Died Was This Burden" Historical Fulfilled

Isaiah 14:4 & 28KJV
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.

 

[Truth7t7]

You didn't? Then why did you say this in post #17

"The Olive Tree Is "Jesus Christ" not a Nation named Israel in a geographical location"

Stop playing childish games, Jesus Is The Olive Tree, simple and in your face Charlie and you know it, your claim that I referenced Jesus Christ as being branches is "False"!

You have falsely claimed throughout this thread that "Israel" represents the Olive Tree

At no time did I claim "Jesus Christ" was the "Branches" as you "Falsely Claim"!

As My Post #17 in this string clearly claimed, "The Olive Tree Is Jesus Christ"

Quote Truth7t7 Post #17

"The Olive Tree Is "Jesus Christ" not a Nation named Israel in a geographical location"

 

[Charlie24]

My response was revised just prior to your response

The prophecy you quote once again surrounds the king of Babylon, and King Ahaz of Israel "Fulfilled" long ago

Your claims this prophecy in Isaiah Chapter 14:1-4 represents future events upon this earth is "False"

Charlie you are desperate to create a future Zionist Kingdom on this earth where Jews rule, pulling scripture out of context in total disregard

"The Year That King Ahaz Died Was This Burden" Historical Fulfilled

Isaiah 14:4 & 28KJV
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.

LOL, I'm the one desperate, lol! No one can show the Replacement Theologists anything!

The Lord will have to do that!

 

[Truth7t7]

LOL, I'm the one desperate, lol! No one can show the Replacement Theologists anything!

The Lord will have to do that!

No such thing as "Replacement Theology" it's propaganda in a created buzzword for by those within the Zionist camps of Dispensationalism

If there was ever a thought such as "Replacement Theology" then Jesus is it's teacher, because the Kingdom of God has been taken from Israel and given to the Church on this earth

Matthew21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The Church, A Holy Nation

1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[Charlie24]

Stop playing childish games, Jesus Is The Olive Tree, simple and in your face Charlie and you know it, your claim that I referenced Jesus Christ as being branches is "False"!

You have falsely claimed throughout this thread that "Israel" represents the Olive Tree

At no time did I claim "Jesus Christ" was the "Branches" as you "Falsely Claim"!

As My Post #17 in this string clearly claimed, "The Olive Tree Is Jesus Christ"

Quote Truth7t7 Post #17

"The Olive Tree Is "Jesus Christ" not a Nation named Israel in a geographical location"

Now to show you that you have no idea what you are talking about, let's go to the Scripture.

Rom. 11:24
"For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?"

Who does Paul say the olive tree is here, Truth?

They are grafted back into "their own olive tree." That would be the natural branches, Israel.

I have no time for this ridiculous conversation! You plainly do not have any idea what we are talking about.

Plus you are not being honest in this conversation by any standard. I'm finished with you, Truth!

 

[Truth7t7]

They are grafted back into "their own olive tree." That would be the natural branches, Israel.

I have no time for this ridiculous conversation! You plainly do not have any idea what we are talking about.

Plus you are not being honest in this conversation by any standard. I'm finished with you, Truth!

"Their own olive tree" in the old testament was the very same olive tree as the new testament "The Lord Jesus Christ"

The root and olive tree is Jesus Christ, the Church isn't grafted into "Israel" as you falsely suggest

The "Remnant Jew" will be saved and grafted back into the Olive Tree who is The "Lord" Jesus Christ, right along with the Church being grafted in also

Of course your done, because your claim "Israel" represents the "Olive Tree" isn't found in scripture, its found in the Zionist teachings of John N. Darby and C.I. Scofield's Dispensationalism

Romans 11:17KJV
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

 

[Charlie24]

"Their own olive tree" in the old testament was the very same olive tree as the new testament "The Lord Jesus Christ"

The root and olive tree is Jesus Christ, the Church isn't grafted into "Israel" as you falsely suggest

The "Remnant Jew" will be saved and grafted back into the Olive Tree who is The "Lord" Jesus Christ, right along with the Church being grafted in also

Of course your done, because your claim "Israel" represents the "Olive Tree" isn't found in scripture, its found in the Zionist teachings of John N. Darby and C.I. Scofield's Dispensationalism

Romans 11:17KJV
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Christ is not the olive tree! He is the root of the tree that the tree derives it's life.

The tree is Israel, the branches of the tree, and we Gentiles, only by the Grace of God, are grafted into that tree with Israel, the natural branches.

We Gentiles are the inferior branches of the tree. This means that God called Israel to introduce Christ to the world. He gave the Law to them, not the Church. He gave them the womb of the Christ, not the Church.

We are second, they were first. This is revealed when Christ said the "first shall be last, and the last first."

Israel was called first, but will be the last saved, The Church was called last/second choice, but will be the first saved.

Casting away Israel is contrary to the writing of Paul. He said they are not cast away, but have been placed in temporary blindness until the Gentiles are saved. Then God will call on Israel again, and this time they will not fail. They will fulfill their calling, but it will be during the 1000 year reign of Christ when they do it.

 

[Truth7t7]

We are second, they were first. This is revealed when Christ said the "first shall be last, and the last first."

Israel was called first, but will be the last saved, The Church was called last/second choice, but will be the first saved.

Casting away Israel is contrary to the writing of Paul. He said they are not cast away, but have been placed in temporary blindness until the Gentiles are saved. Then God will call on Israel again, and this time they will not fail. They will fulfill their calling, but it will be during the 1000 year reign of Christ when they do it.

Your claims are out of context once again, in the fairy tale dreams of Zionism, trying to elevate a ethnic people "Jews" and creating two people's of God within his Church, Christian Jew First, Christian Gentile Second, "Laughable"!

To be first and last has to do with humility and being a servant, and has absolutely nothing to do with being a Jew or Gentile, as you bend and twist the holy scripture, creating division within the Church falsely, based upon ethnic heritage "Sad"

Mark 9:34-35KJV
34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

 

[Charlie24]

Your claims are out of context once again, in the fairy tale dreams of Zionism, trying to elevate a ethnic people "Jews" and creating two people's of God within his Church, Christian Jew First, Christian Gentile Second, "Laughable"!

To be first and last has to do with humility and being a servant, and has absolutely nothing to do with being a Jew or Gentile, as you bend and twist the holy scripture fasley, creating division within the Church falsely, based upon ethnic heritage "Sad"

Mark 9:34-35KJV
34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

Further proof, I'm sorry, that you don't know what you are talking about.

In the parable of the laborers in Matt. 20, let's read the 8th verse.

"So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first."

Then in vs. 16, Christ says, "so the last shall be first and the first last, for many be called but few chosen."

He is referring to the laborers of the Church being chosen last/second, but first paid, remember the parable, they were paid last unto the first?

 

[Truth7t7]

Casting away Israel is contrary to the writing of Paul. He said they are not cast away, but have been placed in temporary blindness until the Gentiles are saved. Then God will call on Israel again, and this time they will not fail. They will fulfill their calling, but it will be during the 1000 year reign of Christ when they do it.

Your claims are false again, bending and twisting

God has called "The Remnant" which God foreknew and has called, while "Israel" remains blinded

Israel Hath Not Obtained

The Election Hath Obtained

Romans 11:1-8KJV
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.