Romans 11 (verse 22)

[Behold]

Of course.
But we were talking about your interpretation of Romans 11, which doesn't speak about individuals; it speaks about Israel as a nation.

First Your confusion i think, is with my Thread's TITLE< ...and that is because you didnt read the THREAD, as you stated, so you dont realize that im teaching only one VERSE out of Roman's 11:22
And that verse, is. talking about "God Goodness", and so that is my Thread. Its about the one verse, and the context of God's Goodness, applied as making the distinction between works and Grace.
So, even when Paul is talking about the Gentiles and the Jews.....the grafted in, and those who are of the House, He is still explaining the same Gospel that you use when you preach Jesus.
So, Had you read the Thread, you might have realized this, and that would have been to your benefit.

Realize also, . """ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."""
So, all verses are designed to be rightly divided, and all of them are for the READER, per person.

 

[CadyandZoe]

First Your confusion i think, is with my Thread's TITLE< ...and that is because you didnt read the THREAD, as you stated, so you dont realize that im teaching only one VERSE out of Roman's 11:22
And that verse, is. talking about "God Goodness", and so that is my Thread. Its about the one verse, and the context of God's Goodness, applied as making the distinction between works and Grace.
So, even when Paul is talking about the Gentiles and the Jews.....the grafted in, and those who are of the House, He is still explaining the same Gospel that you use when you preach Jesus.
So, Had you read the Thread, you might have realized this, and that would have been to your benefit.

Realize also, . """ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."""
So, all verses are designed to be rightly divided, and all of them are for the READER, per person.

My response was focused on your initial post wherein you attempt to prove that one can not lose his salvation due to God's goodness, based on Romans 11:22. Romans 11:22 does not apply to individual salvation. The topic of Romans 11 is the status and disposition of Israel, not individual believers.

 

[Behold]

My response was focused on your initial post wherein you attempt to prove that one can not lose his salvation due to God's goodness, based on Romans 11:22. Romans 11:22 does not apply to individual salvation. The topic of Romans 11 is the status and disposition of Israel, not individual believers.

I think i explained clearly that my Thread is not designed as a Exegesis on Romans 11.
And again, Romans 11:22 discussed the Goodness of God, and continuing in it.
Perhaps you can recognize that being Grafted in (Gentiles) according to their faith in Christ, is the Gospel of "All that call on the name of Jesus".
Its the same event, if the "gentiles: do it, or if a the last gentile on earth believes.
Same Christ. Same Offer. Same Salvation that is a Free Gift.

John 3:16 says that God gave Christ to the WORLD.... So, Jew, Greek, or Gentile, is the WORLD, and Jesus died for all.

So, you can't lose Salvation, as its not something you perform or something you keep. Its Christ on the Cross and what He accomplished being applied to you.
You can't lose that, as its not possible.
You can refuse to believe in Jesus, and never receive salvation, but once you have believed, you are born again, and you can't stop being born again.

 

[Robert Gwin]

He has a few.

When He became the God man....1 Timothy 3:16, His name is known as Emmanuel, or "God with us".
This is Jesus.
If you are talking about the OT as God the Father in Eternity, then "Lord", "Jehovah" or "Yahweh", or "I Am". are some of His Names.

Many people feel that way Be, and yes He has many titles. satan has been good at hiding His name from many, but God has but one name, Jehovah. You mentioned I am, but that wasn't the name He gave there, He actually gave the name Jehovah to Moses in verse 15 and said that would be His name forever. How does that name affect you Be? Does it have more importance now that you see this sir?

 

[Behold]

Many people feel that way Be, and yes He has many titles. satan has been good at hiding His name from many, but God has but one name, Jehovah. You mentioned I am, but that wasn't the name He gave there, He actually gave the name Jehovah to Moses in verse 15 and said that would be His name forever. How does that name affect you Be? Does it have more importance now that you see this sir?

Here is the name God wants me and all the born again to call Him.

"Father".

 

[Robert Gwin]

Here is the name God wants me and all the born again to call Him.

"Father".

Why is God's name recorded more than any other name in the Bible Be, if He does not want you to use it? Why did Jesus use it and make it known to his disciples? Jn 17:6

 

[Behold]

Why is God's name recorded more than any other name in the Bible Be, if He does not want you to use it? Why did Jesus use it and make it known to his disciples? Jn 17:6

"Abba".

This is who the born again will meet after they die, or in the Rapture.

 

[Robert Gwin]

"Abba".

This is who the born again will meet after they die, or in the Rapture.

That is not God's name Be, and only occurs I believe 3x in the Bible. Jehovah's name is the most recorded name in the Bible.

We believe the first resurrection has already occurred, therefore those who were born again that have died through the centuries have already met in heaven, those who die not will like you said meet in a twinkling of the eye, and those who are still alive at Jesus' return will meet them in the air at that time 1 Thes 4:15-17; Rev 20:6

 

[Behold]

That is not God's name Be, and only occurs I believe 3x in the Bible. Jehovah's name is the most recorded name in the Bible.
We believe the first resurrection has already occurred, therefore those who were born again that have died through the centuries have already met in heaven, those who die not will like you said meet in a twinkling of the eye, and those who are still alive at Jesus' return will meet them in the air at that time 1 Thes 4:15-17; Rev 20:6

You can know all the names of God, as provided by the OT.
If you are not born again, it does not matter that you can list them all.

What matters is that God has become DADDY..."abba"....>"Father".

 

[Robert Gwin]

You can know all the names of God, as provided by the OT.
If you are not born again, it does not matter that you can list them all.

What matters is that God has become DADDY..."abba"....>"Father".

One that was truly born again knows the name of God. What do you mean by names of God sir.

 

[Behold]

One that was truly born again knows the name of God. What do you mean by names of God sir.

Just for you...
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[CadyandZoe]

You can know all the names of God, as provided by the OT.
If you are not born again, it does not matter that you can list them all.

What matters is that God has become DADDY..."abba"....>"Father".

While it is true that "abba" is a term of endearment, this is not the central focus of that term anymore. Paul says that we have the same spirit of Christ if we say "Abba Father" but this phrase is shortened for efficiency of language. The phrase "Abba Father" comes from a longer sentence that Jesus spoke just before his arrest. He said,

Mark 14:36
“Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.”

The significance of this sentence comes from the attitude it exemplifies. The attitude of every follower of Jesus should be "not what I will, but what you will."

 

[Taken]

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Paul's verse says.. (Romans 11)....."if you continue in HIS Goodness."..Your Salvation is secure.

And who is "His", and what is the "goodness" you are to ""CONTINE IN"" ?

"HiS" : is God. And God's GOODNESS< is the mercy of God's GRACE extended to the WORLD as the Cross of Christ, that is John 3:16.

So, the verse says, if you continue in GODS GOODNESS, "HIS"... which is "the GIFT OF SALVATION"< CHRIST ON THE CROSS... then certainly you can't be cut off, as you are become a Child of God, "ONE with GOD". "In Christ". Born Again.

However, if you try to "CONTINUE" to be accepted by God, based on water, works, commandments, lifestyle, then you are not IN God's Grace, (His Goodness) so, you can't continue in it, as you are OUTSIFE OF IT...
Reader, to "continue in it", as that is SALVATION, which is God's Goodness given to you as a GIFT, is to be born again.

Heretics and CULTS teach = YOUR OWN GOODNESS, and YOUR OWN HOLINESS< as your OWN Salvation......you are to DO for yourself.

See the Difference ????? , between continuing in GOD's GOODNESS< as FAITH in CHRIST on the CROSS, and being BORN AGAIN... vs.... The Heresy of : "im trying to be holy so that i can go to heaven"....which is NOT GOD's Goodness.
Its your own SELF EFFORT., and that is NEVER ACCEPTED BY GOD., as that is the "error of CAIN" that JUDE Teaches about..
Understand Reader.......God only accepts CHRIST's GOODNESS, that He has FINSIHED ON THE CROSS, to accept you and me.
And when you have RECEIEVED this FROM GOD as "The gift of Salvation", then that is HOW you "continue"= in HIS (GOD's) Goodness. And that is your Eternal LIFE, and your "Gift of Rightouesness", fulfilled.

= SALVATION

Disagree.

The KEY is a bodily Death, Before Salvation IS GIVEN.
...Crucified with Christ Jesus, bodily death satisfied for Salvation.
...Belief until Physical Death, bodily death satisfied for Salvation.

IF...one continues in BELIEF, (without Conversion) he Shall be Saved.
IF...one has BECOME “SAV-ED”, (with Conversion) his Salvation IS secured.

 

[Behold]

While it is true that "abba" is a term of endearment, ."

If you lived in Israel...if you had a home there as I do, you could walk outside, most any day and you'll find Israeli's with their family.
Usually its 3-4 children, and often very young..... Baby Carriages, and a lot of toddlers just learning how to walk.
When they can speak, they often call out for their "ABBA".
This is not a term of endearment.. .Its a Jewish word for Father, and that is a Jewish Bible, and Jesus is a Jew, and interestingly enough God is our Father, "Abba".

 

[Behold]

IF...one continues in BELIEF, (without Conversion) he Shall be Saved.
IF...one has BECOME “SAV-ED”, (with Conversion) his Salvation IS secured.

Belief without conversion would be a religious person who is trying to "be like Christ".
If they die, they go to hell.

Being "saved"....is proven by being born again.
There is no other proof.
Being born again, has nothing to do water, works, Mary, commandments, law, the Catholic Church, or lifestyle.

 

[Behold]

Mark 14:36
“Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.”

You posted...>"not what I will, but what YOU will"......Jesus said.
And that is exactly the free will of Jesus submitting to The Father's will.
2 wills, and both are God.
That's a mystery and a fact.

Jesus is God become One of us.
He is the 2nd Adam come to restore us to the same eternal spiritual relationship 1st Adam had, before He rebelled and lost "one with God".
The born again have this spiritual relationship restored.

 

[Taken]

Belief without conversion would be a religious person who is trying to "be like Christ".
If they die, they go to hell.

No. A believer, (not converted), who physically dies believing, BECOMES SAVED THEN, converted by Gods Power, as any is Converted by Gods Power...
~ They have become Saved, “During” the Tribulation.
~ Raptured, lifting up of the Converted, body, soul, spirit, IS the Lord calling UP TO Him, those who Converted WHILE Alive in their flesh.
~ Those who BECOME SAVED, during the Tribulation, bodily die, their body’s remain on Earth. Their soul save, their spirit quickened, and soul and spirit rise up to Heaven to wait for their body’s during the First mass resurrection...
~ See 1 Thes 4:
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them (IN CHRIST) in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

~ See 1 Thes 4: (not converted, did not Confess Believe, but physically DIE Believing...
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Rapture IS Christ Jesus claiming HIS converted “IN CHRIST” Church.
First Resurrection IS God Bringing “WITH HIM”, ALL from beginning of days to end of days WHO Believed, IN God, IN Jesus, and physically DIED in Belief.

Being "saved"....is proven by being born again.
There is no other proof.
Being born again, has nothing to do water, works, Mary, commandments, law, the Catholic Church, or lifestyle.

Yes. However do not forget, MANY WILL BELIEVE to the day they physically DIE...but never Confess their Belief (and become Converted and SAVED) before their physical death.

If you have ever attended a Protestant Church service, Routinely you will SEE people going to an “altar call”, to call on the Lord and CONFESS their Belief. IF they do not Become Converted (by confessing) and physically die IN BELIEF, they shall be Saved and resurrected in the First Resurrection.

 

[CadyandZoe]

If you lived in Israel...if you had a home there as I do, you could walk outside, most any day and you'll find Israeli's with their family.
Usually its 3-4 children, and often very young..... Baby Carriages, and a lot of toddlers just learning how to walk.
When they can speak, they often call out for their "ABBA".
This is not a term of endearment.. .Its a Jewish word for Father, and that is a Jewish Bible, and Jesus is a Jew, and interestingly enough God is our Father, "Abba".

So children didn't love their fathers?

 

[CadyandZoe]

You posted...>"not what I will, but what YOU will"......Jesus said.
And that is exactly the free will of Jesus submitting to The Father's will.
2 wills, and both are God.
That's a mystery and a fact.

Jesus is God become One of us.
He is the 2nd Adam come to restore us to the same eternal spiritual relationship 1st Adam had, before He rebelled and lost "one with God".
The born again have this spiritual relationship restored.

Don't miss the point Paul makes in Romans 8.

12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Paul is talking about those who are being led by the Spirit.

 

[Behold]

No. A believer, (not converted), who physically dies believing, BECOMES SAVED THEN, converted by Gods Power, as any is Converted by Gods Power...

IF die unconverted, you have died a CHRIST REJECTOR.

Jesus said "if you do not believe in me, that i am the messiah, you will DIE IN YOUR SINS".

There is no CROSS in eternity.
THere is no Blood of Jesus and forgiveness for sin, after you die.
There is no such thing as a "conversion" after you die, as you have to BELIVE WHILE YOU ARE ON EARTH, or you die a CHRIST REJECTOR, and you go to hell a Christ Rejector.