ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL

[Doug]

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

There are many who say that the church, the body of Christ, is now spiritual Israel. A member of the body of Christ has become a Jew inwardly. Neither this verse, nor any others, confirm this.

Israel thought their righteousness would come by the law: they stumbled at the stumblingstone, which is Christ (Romans 9:32).

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

The Lord set Israel apart from all the Gentile nations. To say that the body of Christ is spiritual Israel would dilute this distinction and ignore the existing separation between Jew and Gentile; Christ by the body of Christ has removed the separation and made of Jew and Gentile believers one new man, there is no longer any Jew in the body (Ephesians 2:15). If in the body there is no more Jew, how could it be said there is now one.

Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Paul is saying that his Israelite kinsman are so according to the flesh. To say that the body of Christ is now spiritual Israel is in error; to say all the promises given to Israel are now given to the body of Christ is not spiritual but fleshly.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The children of the promise is not according to the flesh, but the promise. It is believing Israel who are the children of the promise.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

They which are of faith are counted as children of Abraham not by the law, but by faith. The Gentile heathen nations are to be blessed in Abraham. They which be of faith are blessed with Abraham. This however, does not say the believing Gentiles are to be given the promises of Israel, but rather, are blessed.

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


The body of Christ has not been made a holy nation, priests, nor kings. As can be seen in Exodus 19:6 it is only the children of Israel that will be so.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

To say Israel has been stripped of all the promises and it's prophetic future as a result of their unbelief, and has been replaced by the body of Christ, the church, is to make the faith of God without effect; let God be true.

 

[Dave L]

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

There are many who say that the church, the body of Christ, is now spiritual Israel. A member of the body of Christ has become a Jew inwardly. Neither this verse, nor any others, confirm this.

Israel thought their righteousness would come by the law: they stumbled at the stumblingstone, which is Christ (Romans 9:32).

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

The Lord set aside Israel from all the Gentile nations. To say that the body of Christ is spiritual Israel would dilute this distinction and ignore the existing seperation between Jew and Gentile; Christ by the body of Christ has removed the seperation and made of Jew and Gentile believers one new man, there is no longer any Jew in the body (Ephesians 2:15). If in the body there is no more Jew, how could it be said there is now one.

Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Paul is saying that his Israelite kinsman are so according to the flesh. To say that the body of Christ is now spiritual Israel is in error; to say all the promises given to Israel are now given to the body of Christ is not spiritual but fleshly.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The children of the promise is not according to the flesh, but the promise. It is believing Israel who are the children of the promise.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

They which are of faith are counted as children of Abraham not by the law, but by faith. The Gentile heathen nations are to be blessed in Abraham. They which be of faith are blessed with Abraham. This however, does not say the believing Gentiles are to be given the promises of Israel, but rather, are blessed.

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


The body of Christ has not been made a holy nation, priests, nor kings. As can be seen in Exodus 19:6 it is only the children of Israel that will be so.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

To say Israel has been stripped of all the promises and it's prophetic future as a result of their unbelief, and has been replaced by the body of Christ, the church, is to make the faith of God without effect; let God be true.

“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20) = Jesus and the church are Israel.

 

[Doug]

“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20) = Jesus and the church are Israel.

Hi

I don't see how 2 Corinthians 1:20 shows that

Could you please show me scripture that says Jesus is the church and the church is Israel

 

[Dave L]

Hi

I don't see how 2 Corinthians 1:20 shows that

Could you please show me scripture that says Jesus is the church and the church is Israel

If the promises are for Israel, and Paul says they are for Jesus, Jesus is Israel along with the church.

 

[Doug]

If the promises are for Israel, and Paul says they are for Jesus, Jesus is Israel along with the church.

Hello

But that verse does not say that

Please show me scripture that says that

 

[Dave L]

Hello

But that verse does not say that

Please show me scripture that says that

I have several proofs. Here's one for now;

The Church is the Israel of God. Here's why. Abraham's seed were called the Hebrews and then Israel interchangeably by Moses. So Abraham's seed = Israel. Paul tells us Jesus and those who believe in him are Abraham's seed and not the unbelievers. = The church is the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16.

 

[Doug]

I have several proofs. Here's one for now;

The Church is the Israel of God. Here's why. Abraham's seed were called the Hebrews and then Israel interchangeably by Moses. So Abraham's seed = Israel. Paul tells us Jesus and those who believe in him are Abraham's seed and not the unbelievers. = The church is the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16.

Hi there

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Paul is saying that it is not all of Israel that is counted for the seed but only the believing remnant


Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Paul is speaking of being children by faith and being blessed not replacing Israel.

The Israel of God is only used one time and there is no basis to say it is the church instead of the believing remnant of Israel.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
The new creature is the new man in Christ

6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Paul is not saying the new creature is the Israel of God
Paul is saying peace and mercy upon those who believe in Christ who are a new creature
And upon the Israel of God as well....the Israel of God is the remnant

 

[marks]

I have several proofs. Here's one for now;

The Church is the Israel of God. Here's why. Abraham's seed were called the Hebrews and then Israel interchangeably by Moses. So Abraham's seed = Israel. Paul tells us Jesus and those who believe in him are Abraham's seed and not the unbelievers. = The church is the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16.

Hi Dave,

Would this mean then that Gentiles who are Christians are also Hebrew?

Much love!

 

[Dave L]

Hi Dave,

Would this mean then that Gentiles who are Christians are also Hebrew?

Much love!

Paul says there is neither jew nor gentile in Christ.

 

[Dave L]

Hi there

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Paul is saying that it is not all of Israel that is counted for the seed but only the believing remnant


Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Paul is speaking of being children by faith and being blessed not replacing Israel.

The Israel of God is only used one time and there is no basis to say it is the church instead of the believing remnant of Israel.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
The new creature is the new man in Christ

6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Paul is not saying the new creature is the Israel of God
Paul is saying peace and mercy upon those who believe in Christ who are a new creature
And upon the Israel of God as well....the Israel of God is the remnant

Jesus is Israel. Another proof;

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1)

“Then he [Joseph] got up, took the child and his mother during the night, and went to Egypt. He stayed there until Herod died. In this way what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet was fulfilled: “I called my Son out of Egypt.”” (Matthew 2:14–15)

 

[marks]

Paul says there is neither jew nor gentile in Christ.

So then no, correct?

 

[Dave L]

So then no, correct?

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:28–29)

“And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.” (Colossians 3:10–11)

 

[Doug]

Jesus is Israel. Another proof;

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1)

“Then he [Joseph] got up, took the child and his mother during the night, and went to Egypt. He stayed there until Herod died. In this way what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet was fulfilled: “I called my Son out of Egypt.”” (Matthew 2:14–15)

Hello

I agree that there appears to be scripture that refers to Jesus as Israel...see Isaiah 49:1-3

That does not mean that from this scripture you can say Israel is the church

 

[Dave L]

Hello

I agree that there appears to be scripture that refers to Jesus as Israel...see Isaiah 49:1-3

That does not mean that from this scripture you can say Israel is the church

The Church is the Israel of God. Here's why. Abraham's see were called the Hebrews and then Israel interchangeably by Moses. So Abraham's seed = Israel. Paul tells us Jesus and those who believe in him are Abraham's seed and not the unbelievers. = The church is the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16.

 

[Doug]

The Church is the Israel of God. Here's why. Abraham's see were called the Hebrews and then Israel interchangeably by Moses. So Abraham's seed = Israel. Paul tells us Jesus and those who believe in him are Abraham's seed and not the unbelievers. = The church is the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16.

Hi

The church is the body of Christ....if I may say,you are making a lot of assumptions in saying otherwise

Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

It is Israel who received the promises

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

God has not cast away Israel and has not replaced Israel.

 

[Davy]

Hi Dave,

Would this mean then that Gentiles who are Christians are also Hebrew?

Much love!

Per the parable of the husbandmen and vineyard of Matthew 21, Jesus showed care of the symbolic vineyard would be taken away from the unbelieving Jews, and instead be given to another "nation" that would bear its fruit. Those unbelieving Jews even pronounced their own sentence when Jesus asked them what the lord of the vineyard would do when he returns.

Matt 21:40-43
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
KJV

To fully understand what our Lord Jesus was revealing there, one must first understand what that "vineyard" represents. Per Isaiah 5, that vineyard represents the "house of Israel", i.e., the ten lost tribes of Israel which were scattered out of the holy land first, and never returned to this day. In Romans 9, Paul quoted from the Book of Hosea to Roman Gentile believers, a passage in Hosea which was originally only given to the house of Israel. It involves God having mercy on a people that were not a people, and that they eventually would be called the sons of the living God. Now that friends is about Christ's Church, of BOTH believing Israelite and believing Gentiles, together as ONE body in Christ Jesus. Thus this vineyard given to another "nation" our Lord Jesus spoke of is HIS CHURCH. And it is His Church that has borne the fruits of The Gospel.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Jesus Christ is the King of Israel ! this is a fact and all who reject such are of Satan.

Israel means Servant of God.

Jesus Christ has come ! so any who turn from him making claims that their is another Israel, other than that of Jesus are of Satan, because anyone who makes a claim of another Israel are in fact rejecting Jesus Christ totally in fact, because they are looking for another, they can't see the forest for the trees. they are under grate delusions.

Why do new age reject Jesus Christ ? why are they looking for another Jesus ? can't Jesus Christ cut it for them ? well for sure that is the problem and all, it's because they do not know him as they are not truly born again ! they are only water baptised, they do not have the Holy Spirit nor will they abide in Jesus.
They are looking to Satan and his works that's why they follow Political Correctness and claim that all people are equal, the only equal that people are in fact is, Equal under God.

The Satanic Socialist view is that all people are equal to each other and that's never been correct ever, not even under Communism was that crap true, as all were equal nothings only for a few who dominated over all like a mongrel dog, that could kill you if you have a view. your lot in like is to follow orders because you are owned and you are just only a number.

 

[Davy]

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

There are many who say that the church, the body of Christ, is now spiritual Israel. A member of the body of Christ has become a Jew inwardly. Neither this verse, nor any others, confirm this.

On the contrary; that Christ's Church is now spiritual Israel is EXACTLY... what Apostle Paul was saying about becoming a Jew inwardly! And the word for "Jew" there actually means a Judean, pointing to Israelites born of the tribes of the southern "kingdom of Judah". (Paul was a Jew born of the tribe of Benjamin; a Jew because the tribe of Benjamin joined with the tribe of Judah when God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms per 1 Kings 11).

Israel thought their righteousness would come by the law: they stumbled at the stumblingstone, which is Christ (Romans 9:32).

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

The Lord set Israel apart from all the Gentile nations. To say that the body of Christ is spiritual Israel would dilute this distinction and ignore the existing separation between Jew and Gentile; Christ by the body of Christ has removed the separation and made of Jew and Gentile believers one new man, there is no longer any Jew in the body (Ephesians 2:15). If in the body there is no more Jew, how could it be said there is now one.

Abraham wasn't even born an Israelite yet the Promise Abraham believed by Faith is the SAME Promise those in Christ Jesus have believed, and thus those in Christ have become the "children of Abraham" (Gal.3). How is it that The Gospel continued throughout God's chosen seed of Israel even down to Jesus' Apostles who were Israelites? The Gospel of Jesus Christ did not come through Gentiles. It came through the chosen seed of Israel, even as Jesus chose Saul, a Pharisee and a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin, to take The Gospel to the Gentiles.


Anyone with just a little common sense ought to be able to see how your false doctrine has trapped itself. If the chosen believing seed of Israel was not involved in The Gospel of Jesus Christ as part of Christ's Body, His Church, then your Biblically ignorant theory would then be correct. But alas, Christ's Apostles even make up part of the 'foundation' of His Church, to include the Old Testament prophets also!!!

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
KJV


Eph 2:19-20
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;
KJV

 

[Doug]

On the contrary; that Christ's Church is now spiritual Israel is EXACTLY... what Apostle Paul was saying about becoming a Jew inwardly! And the word for "Jew" there actually means a Judean, pointing to Israelites born of the tribes of the southern "kingdom of Judah". (Paul was a Jew born of the tribe of Benjamin; a Jew because the tribe of Benjamin joined with the tribe of Judah when God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms per 1 Kings 11).




Abraham wasn't even born an Israelite yet the Promise Abraham believed by Faith is the SAME Promise those in Christ Jesus have believed, and thus those in Christ have become the "children of Abraham" (Gal.3). How is it that The Gospel continued throughout God's chosen seed of Israel even down to Jesus' Apostles who were Israelites? The Gospel of Jesus Christ did not come through Gentiles. It came through the chosen seed of Israel, even as Jesus chose Saul, a Pharisee and a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin, to take The Gospel to the Gentiles.


Anyone with just a little common sense ought to be able to see how your false doctrine has trapped itself. If the chosen believing seed of Israel was not involved in The Gospel of Jesus Christ as part of Christ's Body, His Church, then your Biblically ignorant theory would then be correct. But alas, Christ's Apostles even make up part of the 'foundation' of His Church, to include the Old Testament prophets also!!!

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
KJV


Eph 2:19-20
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;
KJV

Hello
Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

How you can take these verses that are saying a Jew is not a Jew outwardly, in the flesh by being born as a Jew, but is a Jew inwardly and apply them to the body of Christ is beyond me.

I am afraid I can't respond, as much as I would like to, to the rest of your post because I don't understand what you are getting at.

 

[Dave L]

On the contrary; that Christ's Church is now spiritual Israel is EXACTLY... what Apostle Paul was saying about becoming a Jew inwardly! And the word for "Jew" there actually means a Judean, pointing to Israelites born of the tribes of the southern "kingdom of Judah". (Paul was a Jew born of the tribe of Benjamin; a Jew because the tribe of Benjamin joined with the tribe of Judah when God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms per 1 Kings 11).




Abraham wasn't even born an Israelite yet the Promise Abraham believed by Faith is the SAME Promise those in Christ Jesus have believed, and thus those in Christ have become the "children of Abraham" (Gal.3). How is it that The Gospel continued throughout God's chosen seed of Israel even down to Jesus' Apostles who were Israelites? The Gospel of Jesus Christ did not come through Gentiles. It came through the chosen seed of Israel, even as Jesus chose Saul, a Pharisee and a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin, to take The Gospel to the Gentiles.


Anyone with just a little common sense ought to be able to see how your false doctrine has trapped itself. If the chosen believing seed of Israel was not involved in The Gospel of Jesus Christ as part of Christ's Body, His Church, then your Biblically ignorant theory would then be correct. But alas, Christ's Apostles even make up part of the 'foundation' of His Church, to include the Old Testament prophets also!!!

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
KJV


Eph 2:19-20
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;
KJV

If the church is not Israel, to whom are the broken off Jews reattached to by faith in Christ?