Romans 6:22

[Michiah-Imla]

In regards to receiving eternal life, only genuine believers will receive it

And only genuine believers are subject to the warnings against falling away from the faith and becoming reprobate.

Only genuine believers are standing in the faith that Paul warned to not be highminded in, lest they get cut off like the unbelievers (Romans 11:20-21).

 

[Johann]

It matters. In regards to receiving eternal life, only genuine believers will receive it. Certain areas of everyday living is not the same thing. We all have made mistakes from not listening, suffered some type of consequence and learned from it.

Rom 8:27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Correct in saying only genuine believers will receive life eternal.
J.

 

[Wrangler]

“Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.” (Psalms 119:140)

Really? You consider that to be a command to love parchment? Bless your heart!

 

[ButterflyJones]

Unless, of course, you wilfully commit sin again.

Please post that scripture

 

[mailmandan]

And only genuine believers are subject to the warnings against falling away from the faith and becoming reprobate.

Only genuine believers are standing in the faith that Paul warned to not be highminded in, lest they get cut off like the unbelievers (Romans 11:20-21).

Only genuine believers truly believe the gospel and do not believe in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Only genuine believers believe to the saving of the soul and do not draw back to perdition. (Hebrews 10:39)

 

[Johann]

Only genuine believers are standing in the faith that Paul warned to not be highminded in, lest they get cut off like the unbelievers (Romans 11:20-21).

I know where you are going with this, genuine believers can make mistakes but you forget that we are in a covenant relationship with our Father and our Lord Christ Jesus, sealed with the Ruach HaKodesh....

Joh_10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Joh_10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Have you notice that no one will snatch the believer out of Christ's hand
No one will snatch the believer out of our Father's hand?

Yes, of course we are tried and tested, but in Christ we have our eternal security and the Holy Spirit interceding in our stead, as well as Messiah, making priestly intercession in and for us.

J.

 

[Johann]

Please post that scripture

Heb_10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Only genuine believers truly believe the gospel and do not believe in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Only genuine believers believe to the saving of the soul and do not draw back to perdition. (Hebrews 10:39)

And yet still, the warnings come:

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.” (Hebrews 12:14-17)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Really? You consider that to be a command to love parchment? Bless your heart!

God seems to care about his words on parchment:

“Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying, Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned.” (Jeremiah 36:27-28)

Bless your heart!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Please post that scripture

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-29)

 

[ButterflyJones]

Heb_10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

That's not saying what you think it says.

If our sins are not fully put under the blood of Christ, then he cannot be crucified again to cover new sins .

I think the issue in many cases is that people do not fully realize what sin is. So that when our sins are put under the blood of Jesus as those redeemed from sin by Jesus blood and death on the cross where he became sin and took our sins upon him there, God remembers our sins no more.

That scripture is telling us those who wilfully disobey God are not redeemed in Christ. And given they have not been redeemed of their sins by Jesus on the cross, while invoking his name and claiming to be in Christ, they have no savior in future to heal them. Jesus doesn't need be sacrificed over and over again to cover a person's sins if that person wilfully chooses to sin repeatedly while claiming to know the meaning of sin and redemption.

What is overlooked when advocating works salvation wherein that verse is often cited as scriptural support is, anyone who continues to live in Jesus will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.
1 John 3:6.

To answer your question now in brief per the scripture you posted, it is telling us the same thing 1 John 3:6 is.

Those who wilfully, which means knowingly, commit sin do not know Christ. When they do not know Christ and all that pertains to being in him, per 1 John 3:6 and other similar passages, there is no sacrifice yet again Christ can make to change their heart when they claim to have knowledge of Christ's truth and yet wilfully transgress him. Because those who do that do not know Christ, there can be no other sacrifice Christ can make again for them when they are not in the covenant with him in the first place. As their wilfully sin, and 1 John 3:6 tell us.

 

[Johann]

And yet still, the warnings come:

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.” (Hebrews 12:14-17)

Well...

12:14-17 this is the lasts warning (cf. Heb. 2:1-4; 3:7-4:11; 5:11-6:12; 10:19-39; 12:14-17).

12:14 "Pursue peace" This is a present active imperative. In the context of

1. persecution from without

2. unbelief among friends (Jewish unbelievers with whom the believing Jews were still worshiping)

3. doubt within (the danger of "shrinking back" (cf. Heb. 10:38) this discussion of peace is very important.

There are several related passages about "peace."

1. Ps. 34:14, "seek peace, pursue it"

2. Mark 9:50, "be at peace with one another"

3. Rom. 12:18, "If possible, so as it depends on you, be at peace with all men"

4. 1 Cor. 7:15, "Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave. . .but God has called us to peace"

5. 2 Tim. 2:22, "pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart"



"and the sanctification" This term "sanctification" must relate to Heb. 12:10 and is connected to "discipline." God disciplines believers for holiness. The goal of salvation is Christlikeness.

This is not positional (instantaneous) sanctification, but experiential (progressive) sanctification.

*There is a brother here that denies progressive sanctification, @Episkopos *
probably missed the Imperative...

The gospel presents salvation and the Christian life in two tension-filled ways. In one sense it is a finished, free, once-for-all gift from God (indicative), but it is also a life of faith, obedience, service, and worship (imperative).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is also denied "as works" yet in the Imperative.....

Many believers emphasize one aspect to the exclusion of the other (Augustine vs. Pelagius; Calvin vs. Arminius).

Next time we should ask each other: hey, are you a Calvinist, Reformed, Arminius, Pelagian.....?

Believers' relationship with God begins at a point in time, a point of conviction, culminating in repentance and faith, but it must also move through time to a culmination at death or the Second Coming; faithfulness, righteousness, perseverance are important, crucial evidences of a true salvation.

Nope, says some, no need for perseverance! Forgetting the Imperatives!

Compare the following texts on sanctification.


Positional (indicative)

Acts 26:18
Romans 15:16
1 Corinthians 1:2-3; 6:11
2 Thessalonians 2:13
Hebrews 2:11; 10:10,14; 13:12
1 Peter 1:2


Progressive [Imperative]....blows me away that this brother denies progressive sanctification. Maybe believing in the Wesleyan doctrine of instant sinlessness, the corrupt nature wholly and totally "surgically removed?

Romans 6:19
2 Cor. 7:1
Ephesians 1:4; 2:10
1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3-4,7; 5:2
1 Timothy 2:15
2 Timothy 2:21
Hebrews 12:14
1 Peter 1:15-16

"that no one comes short of the grace of God" This is a present active participle used in an imperatival sense meaning "falling short of the grace of God."

This word is used in Heb. 4:1 in the sense of "fail to attain," but in this verse the preposition "away" (apo) forms a prepositional phrase implying "a falling away from something previously possessed" (cf. Heb. 6:4-6; 10:23,38-39; 12:25). Apostasy was a real possibility in this cultural situation.

Or, as I have maintained, there are two groups being addressed:

(1) believing Jews in danger of "shrinking back" (Heb. 12:15) and.....

(2) unbelieving Jews having clearly understood the gospel in the lives and testimonies of their believing synagogue companions, rejecting Jesus (Heb. 12:25).

Now THIS is sad

Whichever theory is correct, the truth remains that salvation is not a product, but a relationship. It is more than an initial response. The warnings are serious, challenging, and real. In this context it is a call to help believers in danger of "shrinking back" (cf. Heb. 10:38).

We are not unbelieving Jews, are we?

 

[Johann]

Those who wilfully, which means knowingly, commit sin do not know Christ. When they do not know Christ and all that pertains to being in him, per 1 John 3:6 and other similar passages, there is no sacrifice yet again Christ can make to change their heart when they claim to have knowledge of Christ's truth and yet wilfully transgress him. Because those who do that do not know Christ, there can be no other sacrifice Christ can make again for them when they are not in the covenant with him in the first place. As their wilfully sin, and 1 John 3:6 tell us.

So, what is the context, and to whom was this written, Perfect Tense?

Was it not to Jewish believers in danger of going back to Judaism?

 

[amigo de christo]

Who are the "they" that twisted even Romans out of context, so that I may use the ignore feature more often.
Thx
J.

So many as the sands of the beach . Way too many for me to name .

 

[Johann]

What is overlooked when advocating works salvation wherein that verse is often cited as scriptural support is, anyone who continues to live in Jesus will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.
1 John 3:6.

You used one verse, this is the context

1Jn 3:5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.

Now....

1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

Again....

1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning,[This is not sinless perfection] because he has been born of God.

1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

See here...whoever does not/do practice righteousness, and, whoever love/do not love his brother.

Do what is right, and fervent love toward the brethren.

Those who wilfully, which means knowingly, commit sin do not know Christ. When they do not know Christ and all that pertains to being in him, per 1 John 3:6 and other similar passages, there is no sacrifice yet again Christ can make to change their heart when they claim to have knowledge of Christ's truth and yet wilfully transgress him. Because those who do that do not know Christ, there can be no other sacrifice Christ can make again for them when they are not in the covenant with him in the first place. As their wilfully sin, and 1 John 3:6 tell us.

Those who habitually, in the sphere of never ending sinning, do not know Christ.

But brother, back to my question, who were the recipients in the book of Hebrews?

Welcome to the Forum, I notice you are new here.
Johann

 

[ButterflyJones]

You used one verse, this is the context

1Jn 3:5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.

Now....

1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

Again....

1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning,[This is not sinless perfection] because he has been born of God.

1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

See here...whoever does not/do practice righteousness, and, whoever love/do not love his brother.

Do what is right, and fervent love toward the brethren.


Those who habitually, in the sphere of never ending sinning, do not know Christ.

But brother, back to my question, who were the recipients in the book of Hebrews?

Welcome to the Forum, I notice you are new here.
Johann

Thank you for the welcome. Yes, I responded to your one verse post with one from scripture.

We should all know context in every chapters teaching is vital to understanding.

 

[Johann]

So many as the sands of the beach . Way too many for me to name .

First rule

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
1Jn 4:4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them.
1Jn 4:6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

We are not to judge the person, but discern truth from error brother, too many fingers pointing, forgetting three fingers pointing to ourselves.
Our warfare is not against BLOOD AND FLESH, and yet, this is exactly what is happening, warring among the brethren.
Shalom
J.

 

[Johann]

DELIVERANCE
ILLUMINATION
SIMPLIFICATION OF GOD'S WORD
CAPACITY TO INSTRUCT
ESTABLISHMENT
REJOICING
NOURISHMENT
SUBMISSION
AMPLIFICATION
D - DELIVERANCE

Prov 2:11-12
11Discretion shall preserve thee: understanding shall keep thee, 12 To deliver
thee from the way of evil man, from the man that speaketh froward things,
Job 28:28

28 And to man He said, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom,
And to depart from evil is understanding.'"
I - ILLUMINATION

Prov 14:33
Wisdom resteth in the heart of him that hath understanding, but that which is
in the midst of fools is made known.

Prov 10:23
23 It is as sport to a fool to do mischief, but a man of understanding hath
wisdom.

1 John 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come and hath given us an
understanding, that we may know Him that is true; and we are in Him that is
true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Eph 1:17-21
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto
you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of
your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of
His calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19
and what is the exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe,
according to the working of His mighty power 20. which He wrought in Christ,
when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the

heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and
dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world but also in that
which is to come. (KJV)

S - SIMPLIFICATION OF GOD'S WORD

Prov 8:9
They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find
knowledge.

C - CAPACITY TO INSTRUCT

Dan 11:33
And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall
fall by sword, and by flame, by captivity and by spoil, many days.
E - ESTABLISHMENT

Prov 24:3
Through wisdom is an house builded, and by understanding it is established;
R - REJOICING

Prov 3:13
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth
understanding;
N - NOURISHMENT

Prov 16:22
Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it. But the instruction
of fools is folly.
S – SUBMISSION

Ps 119:34
4 Give me understanding, and I shall keep Thy law, yea, I shall observe it with
my whole heart.

Shalom

And to encourage you........................

E - EQUIPPED
A ready spiritual soldier is equipped with the following:
1. ARMOUR OF GOD
See Ephesian 6:11-18.
2. PRAYER
Eph.6:18
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching
thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
1Thess.5:17
pray without ceasing,
3. WATCHING
Eph.6:18
being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the
saints
WATCHING INCLUDES:
3.1. SOBERNESS AND VIGILANCE
1Pet.5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion,
walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
3.2. WALKING CIRCUMSPECTLY
Eph.5:15
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
3.3. NOT GIVING PLACE TO THE DEVIL
Eph.4:27
27 Neither give place to the devil.
3.4. KEEPING ONESELF
1John 5:18

18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten
of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
A - ANOINTED
The term "anointed" refers to being filled with the Holy Spirit, i.e. controlled by
the Holy Spirit. The Christian soldier must be filled with the Spirit of God.
1. The anointing sets the believer apart from the world.
2 Tim.2:4
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he
may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
2. The Spirit warns the believer of danger. John 16:13 tells us that He will
show you things to come.
3. The Spirit convicts of sin and inaccuracy.
John 16:8
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness,
and of judgment:
D - DISCIPLINED
The spiritual soldier has the marks of a disciple (See disciple).
Y - YOKE OF CHRIST
Matt.11:28-29
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you
rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart:
and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
The yoke helps the beast to draw its burden. The burden that Christ gives us
is the cross.
Mark 8:34
34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said
unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up
his cross, and follow me.
The Old Testament yoke was the law. It was a yoke of iron.
THE YOKE OF CHRIST IS LOVE.
1. LOVE HELPS US TO "CARRY THE CROSS" WITH EASE.
The love of Christ "constrains us" (2Cor.5:14). The motivation for involvement
in battle is not duty but love for Christ.
2. LOVE GIVES US REST.
Matt.11:29
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart:
and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
3. LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR i.e. LOVE INSPIRES BOLDNESS.
1John 4:18
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath
torment…
This love is the Agape Love that Jesus prayed for in John 17:26.
4. THIS LOVE CONFIRMS OUR REGENERATION.
1John 4:7
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that
loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

Now you can hit the trenches while I stand still on this battlefield, helmet askew, lost my lance, armor dented, but cannot turn my back, dare not turn my back....you either pray for me or you are against me.
Can two walk together lest they agree?

J.

 

[Johann]

We should all know context in every chapters teaching is vital to understanding.

I really hope you feel welcome here.
Shalom to you and family.
Amen, we should know context, vitally important.
J.

 

[mailmandan]

And yet still, the warnings come:

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.” (Hebrews 12:14-17)

In regards to Hebrews 12:14, I often hear works-salvationists cite this verse with the implication that if you are not living a "holy enough" life (in of yourself, in addition to placing your faith in Christ for salvation) then you won't be saved. The NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

To be "sanctified" is to be "set apart, made holy." Those who have been justified by faith are also sanctified/set apart/made holy before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

In regards to Hebrews 12:15, eternal IN-securists typically cite "fail of the grace of God" and assume that such a person was saved and lost their salvation, yet other translations clear up this confusion. The NIV says, "falls short of the grace of God." The NASB says, "comes short of the grace of God" and the ESV says, "fails to obtain the grace of God." Never saved. Also, Esau blew it.