Already moved and deleted my posts, and moved his, as well as I could.... a little while ago.
to "split thread" .... (title) ... somewhere...
Romantic Love In Eternity?
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to "split thread" .... (title) ... somewhere...
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
I gave my opinion to the OP and an explanation in post #102. It got a few likes so people obviously understood my reasoning
I've also gone through the thread and read every post now. People are discussing the possibility of sex in heaven. So why me?
Why have i been singled out here? I found some of your responses to my posts quite odd - "nice try" like im up to something nefarious.
The bible doesn't tell us they were fallen angels in Gen6, but for argument sake lets suppose that they were...
If fallen angels are capable of having sex then holy angels probably can as well.
Given that Jesus says we will be like the angels in heaven i think it's possible that romantic love does exist in heaven.
U may claim not to see any connection but there are people that understood and accepted the logic which i presented in #102.
Anywayz... watevz
It might be worth it to start a thread on the nephilim. I know I don't read every thread, I don't have time so I read the ones that interest me the most. There could be people who didn't participate in this thread (perhaps didn't read it even) but who would be interested in a thread about the nephilim. Who knows?
Genesis is rather vague on what was going on; but there are other sources that give more information. I can think of potential sources. There are problems with those other books to be sure, but I think they provide clues. I think even the pagan myths contain some elements of the truth. This thread is not the place to discuss pagan myths however. The Book of Enoch and the Book of Jasher are perhaps more reliable -- although I have reservations about the last chapters in the Book of Enoch. The earlier chapters are frequently quoted in the New Testament.
Why not start a thread and see what happens? It might be interesting.
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
LoL u must of read my mind because I have been thinking about the Nephilim recently and been considering opening a thread on them.
Was tossing up weather to just present the simple facts and let others build up the discussion or to present a theory I have along with the evidence ive come across that supports the claim that giants existed...
Want to look more into the other texts that mention the Neph as well first then i'll make a thread. Keep an eye out for it if your keen
footnote: might just as well open. a thread on casper the friendly ghost !
He is more true to life than the nephilim as angels which was proven a fraud thousands of years ago,
yet used by the anti-christ system to deceive many.
He is more true to life than the nephilim as angels which was proven a fraud thousands of years ago,
yet used by the anti-christ system to deceive many.
VictoryinJesus
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???
What do you see there in the lyrics/ song ?
The last line is (appears to be) :
"Yeah, I'm running out of places I can run
Looking for a place in the sun
Oh, won't you shine down on me sunshine?"
As if it is someone not abiding in Christ at all ?!
Ok, Joseph. This is very involved study because you are dealing with multiple Greek words and cognates surrounding the word πάθος. Only a few could rightly be translated as affections or passions in the sense we are talking about, so I have eliminated those verses you cited where these are not used, and added one verse where the word could be.
I'll deal with them by category:
The qualifier here is that the passions specifically of the flesh are being discussed, and by this he means the passions excited by the body, i.e. sexual passion. Even when the mind is referenced, it is in keeping with "carrying out the desires of the body and the mind." The earthly body plays no part in the type of affection I am taking about in Heaven.
This one is again talking about bodily passions, as is evident from the company it keeps. Every one of these words in the Greek is talking about sexual (bodily) desire and lasciviousness, including the last one, which is sometimes inaccurately translated as "greed" but is referring to sexual covetous, something commanded against in the 10 commandments when God warned against coveting another man's wife.
Now, these two are hitting more closer to home, IMO. The first is a warning against adultery, the second against homosexuality. Both could refer more strictly to bodily passions in this context, but there is certainly a soulish component to it as well. After all the first is warning about what could happen to Christians, and in most cases with Christians it is not just a matter of sexual attraction. More often than not it will be something like a pastor and his secretary, who worked together well for years until they really started to draw closer to one another on an emotional level, and then one night something happened that they couldn't turn back from.
Now, all these verses speak of passion and affection in a negative light, but they are all in contexts where a sexual component is present. But there are cognates of πάθος where the word is used positively. συμπαθής is often translated "compassion" in English, which contains the word "passion" within in, and it is not simply a form of pity. It describes a feeling or great sympathy; almost a yearning for.
Paul, speaking of his chains and what he suffered for their sakes, told his readers:
Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For you had compassion (συμπαθής) of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. (Hebrews 10:33-34)
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling (συμπαθής) of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:14-15)
This second is talking about our Lord having compassion upon us, being touched with feelings over our struggles where sin is concerned.
1 Peter 3:7-8
Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. Finally, be ye all of one mind, having affection for one another (συμπαθής), love as brethren, be piteous, be courteous.
This last passage again brings to mind that "loving as brethren" is more than just a handshake. The words "love as brethren" is followed with "be piteous" which means have compassion, deep compassion upon one another in our struggles, loving one another as we would our own family members, people who had cared for us and have known us our whole lives, and who had great loyalty to us and we to them.
This is precisely the sort of thing I was talking about that can bring about a greater affection for some than others, and that that affection is not simply going to disappear when we get to Heaven. Moreover the command from 1 Peter seems to be that we are to all have such a depth of love for one another, to greater or lessening degrees.
I'll deal with them by category:
The qualifier here is that the passions specifically of the flesh are being discussed, and by this he means the passions excited by the body, i.e. sexual passion. Even when the mind is referenced, it is in keeping with "carrying out the desires of the body and the mind." The earthly body plays no part in the type of affection I am taking about in Heaven.
This one is again talking about bodily passions, as is evident from the company it keeps. Every one of these words in the Greek is talking about sexual (bodily) desire and lasciviousness, including the last one, which is sometimes inaccurately translated as "greed" but is referring to sexual covetous, something commanded against in the 10 commandments when God warned against coveting another man's wife.
Now, these two are hitting more closer to home, IMO. The first is a warning against adultery, the second against homosexuality. Both could refer more strictly to bodily passions in this context, but there is certainly a soulish component to it as well. After all the first is warning about what could happen to Christians, and in most cases with Christians it is not just a matter of sexual attraction. More often than not it will be something like a pastor and his secretary, who worked together well for years until they really started to draw closer to one another on an emotional level, and then one night something happened that they couldn't turn back from.
Now, all these verses speak of passion and affection in a negative light, but they are all in contexts where a sexual component is present. But there are cognates of πάθος where the word is used positively. συμπαθής is often translated "compassion" in English, which contains the word "passion" within in, and it is not simply a form of pity. It describes a feeling or great sympathy; almost a yearning for.
Paul, speaking of his chains and what he suffered for their sakes, told his readers:
Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For you had compassion (συμπαθής) of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. (Hebrews 10:33-34)
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling (συμπαθής) of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:14-15)
This second is talking about our Lord having compassion upon us, being touched with feelings over our struggles where sin is concerned.
1 Peter 3:7-8
Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. Finally, be ye all of one mind, having affection for one another (συμπαθής), love as brethren, be piteous, be courteous.
This last passage again brings to mind that "loving as brethren" is more than just a handshake. The words "love as brethren" is followed with "be piteous" which means have compassion, deep compassion upon one another in our struggles, loving one another as we would our own family members, people who had cared for us and have known us our whole lives, and who had great loyalty to us and we to them.
This is precisely the sort of thing I was talking about that can bring about a greater affection for some than others, and that that affection is not simply going to disappear when we get to Heaven. Moreover the command from 1 Peter seems to be that we are to all have such a depth of love for one another, to greater or lessening degrees.
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Well yes, Ma'am. If I understand your point, certainly any expressions of believers towards one another, whether here or in Heaven, must be holy. The question then becomes, to what extent or at what point does love become unholy. Certainly the flesh must be taken out of it. But I don't really see where godly love and affections become sinful.
Nor possible, LoL.
LoL. Well the passage is interesting in the discussion, but this passage is not intended to relate to us becoming as the angels. Though if one takes it that way, surely the angels of God have compassion on humans, including women. If not they would not exhibit the character of God. I mean what are they, impersonal robots? LoL. They are caring beings. No one could be in the Presence of Almighty God who wasn't. Angels praise God, and I'm sure some will think praise unto God could somehow be impersonal, but how would you feel if someone praised you for something with absolutely no feeling in it? I know how I'd react, and it would be with a finger down my throat to get rid of the sickness, LoL.
As the commander of (angels?) said : I am neither FOR YOU, nor for the opponent,
I AM FOR THE LORD (of HOSTS).... He only serves His Lord , absolutely faithfully, regardless of any
(if present) emotions and/or feelings and/or affections .... as also the Ekklesia are commanded to.
MOVED
(copying and moving to another thread, God Willing) >>>
-------------------QUOTE
="Hidden In Him, ]
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling (συμπαθής) of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:14-15)
This second is talking about our Lord having compassion upon us, being touched with feelings over our struggles where sin is concerned.[/QUOTE
QUOTE="Hidden In Him, ]For you had compassion (συμπαθής) of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. (Hebrews 10:33-34)[/QUOTE
----------------------------------
(copying and moving to another thread, God Willing) >>>
-------------------QUOTE
="Hidden In Him, ]
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling (συμπαθής) of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:14-15)
This second is talking about our Lord having compassion upon us, being touched with feelings over our struggles where sin is concerned.[/QUOTE
QUOTE="Hidden In Him, ]For you had compassion (συμπαθής) of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. (Hebrews 10:33-34)[/QUOTE
----------------------------------
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Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
Hi Hidden hope your well...
I wasn't clear enough I think. What im saying is the angels are from heaven, resided in heaven and had sexual capabilities in heaven, right...
Therefore i think it could be possible that romantic love is permitted in heaven...
How would you be with your earth partner in heaven, not being able to express your love to her in the most passionate way. How would that work?
Thanks. You know, I actually responded to her without looking it up, and it's a little different than what I thought. As a philosopher, I assumed it might be that empty sort of non-emotional sign of "affection." But if the current definitions are true to Plato, it runs close in line with what I feel is acceptable in Heaven and on earth:
Definition of platonic love
1: love conceived by Plato as ascending from passion for the individual to contemplation of the universal and ideal
2: a close relationship between two persons in which sexual desire is nonexistent or has been suppressed or sublimated
Definition of PLATONIC LOVE
Sexual desire being suppressed or sublimated is a very good way to put it in some cases. Husbands and wives will still have that type of affection for each other, but it will be sublimated into an ideal form without it. So, too, with those who might have married in this life had circumstances been different, but greatly desired to.
I have read visions that describe how every believer has their own garden in Heaven, filled with only the kinds of flowers, herbs, plants and fruit trees that they like best, and that the Lord comes to us there in times when He needs to speak to us alone. Now does that not speak to us of intimacy or what? : )
When the sons of God procreated they did so outside the will of God. I'm assuming you realize that, yes?
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