Rome vs Melchizedek

[BreadOfLife]

The word 'them' speaks to 'nations'. The word 'people' is not there.

Stranger

WRONG:
καὶ συναχθήσονται ἔμπροσθεν αὐτοῦ πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, καὶ ἀφορίσει αὐτοὺς ἀπ᾿ ἀλλήλων, ὥσπερ ὁ ποιμὴν ἀφορίζει τὰ πρόβατα ἀπὸ τῶν ἐρίφων,

Nations – ἔθνη (eth'-nos)
People – αὐτοὺς (ow-tos')

Don't you ever tire of being publicly humiliated?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thank you.

As I said, which you show, 'they have a knowledge but they are not saved'. And, 'they had a knowledge but were not believers'. Knowledge alone does not make a believer.

See (Rom.1:32) " Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

So, a definition of a 'word' alone does not interpret the verse or verses. How it is used in 'context' is what you should look for.

No where in Scripture does knowledge of God equal faith in Christ for salvation.

I can bear the humiliation.

Stranger

WRONG again, my spiritually-prideful friend.

Actually – you’re right about the fact that having a “knowledge” (oida/gnosis) of God doesn’t mean you have faith. HOWEVER, you are embarrassingly incorrect about full, experiential knowledge of God (Epignosis) – as I have amply proven on this thread.

Gee, I hate to have to tell you this but the word for “knowing” in Rom. 1:32 is also – you guessed it – EPIGNOSIS.
Do your linguistic homework before responding . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

A bit like this bit

Mar 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

yet than he says

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

so many without oil in there lamps

Not really sure how you think these verses pertain to the conversation at hand - but whatever makes you feel better . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

i notice ignoring all of my questions on that other thread, and instead finding new victims to attack seems to make you feel better...

 

[Stranger]

WRONG:
καὶ συναχθήσονται ἔμπροσθεν αὐτοῦ πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, καὶ ἀφορίσει αὐτοὺς ἀπ᾿ ἀλλήλων, ὥσπερ ὁ ποιμὴν ἀφορίζει τὰ πρόβατα ἀπὸ τῶν ἐρίφων,

Nations – ἔθνη (eth'-nos)
People – αὐτοὺς (ow-tos')

Don't you ever tire of being publicly humiliated?

Not at all.

'Thayers Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament' says of 'AUTOS', " In itself it signifies nothing more than again, applied to what has either been previously mentioned or, when the whole discourse is looked at, must necessarily be supplied." (p.85, copyright 1978)

And what has previously been mentioned in (Matt. 25:32) is 'nations'. Which means 'them' refers to 'nations', not individuals.

Context.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

WRONG again, my spiritually-prideful friend.

Actually – you’re right about the fact that having a “knowledge” (oida/gnosis) of God doesn’t mean you have faith. HOWEVER, you are embarrassingly incorrect about full, experiential knowledge of God (Epignosis) – as I have amply proven on this thread.

Gee, I hate to have to tell you this but the word for “knowing” in Rom. 1:32 is also – you guessed it – EPIGNOSIS.
Do your linguistic homework before responding . . .

I'll be...sure is the same word. What a coincidence. Seems like those in (Rom.1:32) had a full knowledge of God's judgement. Didn't do anything for them, did it?

Likewise, those in (2 Peter 2:19-21), had a full knowledge, which only benefited them in cleaning up their outward acts. Such knowledge didn't get them saved. They remained unclean hogs and dogs.

Thus they return to what they are. Their nature was never changed.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not at all.

'Thayers Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament' says of 'AUTOS', " In itself it signifies nothing more than again, applied to what has either been previously mentioned or, when the whole discourse is looked at, must necessarily be supplied." (p.85, copyright 1978)

And what has previously been mentioned in (Matt. 25:32) is 'nations'. Which means 'them' refers to 'nations', not individuals.

Context.

Stranger

Your argument all along is that the WORD "People" was not in this verse and now you have conceded that it is.

REMEMBER what I have repeatedly warned you about:
Cherry-picking is NEVER a good idea - whether it's from Scripture or from scholarly sources.

Here is the consensus of scholarly thought on Matt. 25:32 . . .

Vincent's Word Studies
“All the nations” ( πάντα τὰ ἔθνη )
The whole human race; though the word is generally employed in the New Testament to denote Gentiles as distinguished from Jews.

“Separate them” ( αὐτοὺς )
Masculine, while the word “nations” is neuter. “Nations” are regarded as gathered collectively; but in contemplating the act of separation the Lord regards the INDIVIDUALS.

Benson Commentary
Matthew 25:32-33. Before him shall be gathered all nations — That is, all the INDIVIDUALS of all nations and ages;

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And before him shall be gathered all nations..... That is, all that have professed the Christian religion in all the nations of the world, whether Jews or Gentiles, high or low, rich or poor, wise and foolish, such as have had greater or lesser talents; though it is also true of every INDIVIDUAL of mankind of every nation, tribe and family, of every sex, age, and state, etc.

Coffman's Commentaries on the Bible
The cataclysmic and simultaneous judgment of all nations depicted here should not be understood as some special kind of selection regarding earth's governments. The "all nations" here is the same as that of the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20) and, from the parallel account in Mark, it is learned that it means "EVER CREATURE," that is, "EVERY MAN born into the world." Paul said, "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things done in the body, whether it be good or bad" (2 Corinthians 5:10).

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'll be...sure is the same word. What a coincidence. Seems like those in (Rom.1:32) had a full knowledge of God's judgement. Didn't do anything for them, did it?

Likewise, those in (2 Peter 2:19-21), had a full knowledge, which only benefited them in cleaning up their outward acts. Such knowledge didn't get them saved. They remained unclean hogs and dogs.

Thus they return to what they are. Their nature was never changed.

Stranger

It's painfully obvious that didn't do your linguistic homework . . .

 

[Stranger]

Your argument all along is that the WORD "People" was not in this verse and now you have conceded that it is.

REMEMBER what I have repeatedly warned you about:
Cherry-picking is NEVER a good idea - whether it's from Scripture or from scholarly sources.

Here is the consensus of scholarly thought on Matt. 25:32 . . .

Vincent's Word Studies
“All the nations” ( πάντα τὰ ἔθνη )
The whole human race; though the word is generally employed in the New Testament to denote Gentiles as distinguished from Jews.

“Separate them” ( αὐτοὺς )
Masculine, while the word “nations” is neuter. “Nations” are regarded as gathered collectively; but in contemplating the act of separation the Lord regards the INDIVIDUALS.

Benson Commentary
Matthew 25:32-33. Before him shall be gathered all nations — That is, all the INDIVIDUALS of all nations and ages;

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And before him shall be gathered all nations..... That is, all that have professed the Christian religion in all the nations of the world, whether Jews or Gentiles, high or low, rich or poor, wise and foolish, such as have had greater or lesser talents; though it is also true of every INDIVIDUAL of mankind of every nation, tribe and family, of every sex, age, and state, etc.

Coffman's Commentaries on the Bible
The cataclysmic and simultaneous judgment of all nations depicted here should not be understood as some special kind of selection regarding earth's governments. The "all nations" here is the same as that of the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20) and, from the parallel account in Mark, it is learned that it means "EVER CREATURE," that is, "EVERY MAN born into the world." Paul said, "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things done in the body, whether it be good or bad" (2 Corinthians 5:10).

No, I have said and still say the word is 'them', not 'people'. And 'them' refer to the 'nations' which were previously mentioned. That is why it is so translated 'them'.

You say in post #182 for me to do my 'linguistic homework'. So, I present it. Then you say, 'cherry picking is never a good idea....from scholarly sources".

Your references are just commentaries. Not impressed. As for 'Vincent's word studies', you produce an incomplete statement.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

It's painfully obvious that didn't do your linguistic homework . . .

It's painful...I know.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, I have said and still say the word is 'them', not 'people'. And 'them' refer to the 'nations' which were previously mentioned. That is why it is so translated 'them'.

You say in post #182 for me to do my 'linguistic homework'. So, I present it. Then you say, 'cherry picking is never a good idea....from scholarly sources".

Your references are just commentaries. Not impressed. As for 'Vincent's word studies', you produce an incomplete statement.

Stranger

No, I have said and still say the word is 'them', not 'people'. And 'them' refer to the 'nations' which were previously mentioned. That is why it is so translated 'them'.

You say in post #182 for me to do my 'linguistic homework'. So, I present it. Then you say, 'cherry picking is never a good idea....from scholarly sources".

Your references are just commentaries. Not impressed. As for 'Vincent's word studies', you produce an incomplete statement.

Stranger

And this says it all . . .

“Separate them” ( αὐτοὺς )
Masculine, while the word “nations” is neuter.
“Nations” are regarded as gathered collectively; but in contemplating the act of separation the Lord regards the INDIVIDUALS.

Beside - you've never answered whether you think that we will be judged according to what our country did instead of what WE did. That position is Scripturally-bankrupt. You'r all over the place on this, pal . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Not really sure how you think these verses pertain to the conversation at hand - but whatever makes you feel better . . .

Well you see, there where these men running around doing works in teh name of Jesus, it upset the disciples because these men where not called, just doing there own thing, and Jesus response was, its ok free advertising, as long as t they are for us, whats teh problem. But than came time for payment, Hey Jesus we demand payment, did we not do all these things in your name?? His response, hey I never sent you, you did this on your own account, i have no contract with you, depart from me, you will receive no payment. It has everything to do with this topic.

So many christians doing just that.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well you see, there where these men running around doing works in teh name of Jesus, it upset the disciples because these men where not called, just doing there own thing, and Jesus response was, its ok free advertising, as long as t they are for us, whats teh problem. But than came time for payment, Hey Jesus we demand payment, did we not do all these things in your name?? His response, hey I never sent you, you did this on your own account, i have no contract with you, depart from me, you will receive no payment. It has everything to do with this topic.

So many christians doing just that.

Yup - YOU need to join His Body - the Church, or you might wind up like those people in Matt. 7:21-23 . . .

 

[Stranger]

And this says it all . . .

“Separate them” ( αὐτοὺς )
Masculine, while the word “nations” is neuter.
“Nations” are regarded as gathered collectively; but in contemplating the act of separation the Lord regards the INDIVIDUALS.

Beside - you've never answered whether you think that we will be judged according to what our country did instead of what WE did. That position is Scripturally-bankrupt. You'r all over the place on this, pal . . .

Yes, 'them'. Them who? Them nations.

I did answer, you apparently didn't catch it. We are talking about saved nations and nations that are not saved. Ask me again.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, 'them'. Them who? Them nations.

I did answer, you apparently didn't catch it. We are talking about saved nations and nations that are not saved. Ask me again.

Stranger

And YOU didn't read the linguistic evidence I presented:

“Separate them” ( αὐτοὺς )
Masculine, while the word “nations” is neuter.
“Nations” are regarded as gathered collectively; but in contemplating the act of separation the Lord regards the INDIVIDUALS.


Hint: Pay attention to the BIGGEST word . . .

 

[Stranger]

And YOU didn't read the linguistic evidence I presented:

“Separate them” ( αὐτοὺς )
Masculine, while the word “nations” is neuter.
“Nations” are regarded as gathered collectively; but in contemplating the act of separation the Lord regards the INDIVIDUALS.


Hint: Pay attention to the BIGGEST word . . .

No, I read it. I just don't put much stock in your 'linguistic evidence'. Smoke mostly.

If 'nations' are regarded as 'nations' and 'nations' are separated, how do you say it is individuals? I showed you that 'them' refers back to what was before mentioned. 'nations'.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

And this says it all . . .

“Separate them” ( αὐτοὺς )
Masculine, while the word “nations” is neuter.
“Nations” are regarded as gathered collectively; but in contemplating the act of separation the Lord regards the INDIVIDUALS.

Beside - you've never answered whether you think that we will be judged according to what our country did instead of what WE did. That position is Scripturally-bankrupt. You'r all over the place on this, pal . . .

That is your 'opinion'. If individuals are all that are being addressed, then yes. But in (Matt.25:32) it is nations that are being addressed. 'them' speaks to 'nations'.

I did answer, you just were not paying attention...and probably didn't want to hear it anyway.

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

Yup - YOU need to join His Body - the Church, or you might wind up like those people in Matt. 7:21-23 . . .

Yep thats why we are Christians because we are a part of Christ Church.

You should join has no men running it just Jesus. No mens doctrines, no mens buildings no mens traditions, just Jesus. Does that offend you?? That we belong to Christ???

 

[bbyrd009]

Yep thats why we are Christians because we are a part of Christ Church.

You should join has no men running it just Jesus. No mens doctrines, no mens buildings no mens traditions, just Jesus. Does that offend you?

hmm, seems like the whole...world would be against that one, mjr

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, I read it. I just don't put much stock in your 'linguistic evidence'. Smoke mostly.

If 'nations' are regarded as 'nations' and 'nations' are separated, how do you say it is individuals? I showed you that 'them' refers back to what was before mentioned. 'nations'.

Stranger

[SIZE=10.5pt]And I showed you that just the opposite is true.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Besides – YOUR explanation is anti-Biblical for the simple reason that you are actually trying to convey the fairy tale that we will NOT be judged on our own merit - but on the merit of where we were born.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]This is asinine . . .[/SIZE]