Sabbath-Keeping

[ATP]

Not one of those verses addresses the question, ATP, and I think you know that.
All of them are about how Jesus died for our sins....something we are all aware of.

Now, once again, hear the words of Jesus Christ:

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Yes, I know...it isn't Paul.
But this Guy just might be worth listening to....

And please, ATP....stop with the rude posts.
It is possible to disagree without being nasty about it.
Do try....I'm sure you can do it...

Jesus dying for all sins does address the question. You just do not accept what Jesus did on the cross.

 

[ATP]

If you are not able to produce a verse that proves they can, then you must accept that the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV are saints who will be lost because they allowed iniquity to kill their AGAPE, but thankfully anyone who endures the same iniquitous influence and - by placing his will on the side of God's will - refuses to allow it to kill his AGAPE shall be saved. I love the sensibility of Scripture, praise God!

Quenching the spirit does not mean they are lost. Lost is only a term given to nonbelievers. Praise God!

Luke 19:9-10 NIV Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

 

[ATP]

Thanks, bro. The Lord will always have a few of His own who refuse to bow the knee to the pathetically weak, lilly-livered doctrines of Baal. I just can't understand why people today who sit in church are so preoccupied with human weakness when the saints of old willingly went to the jaws of lions or the fires of the fagot for what these pew warmers would consider inconsequential issues. If only these saints of old had been "enlightened" they would have realized that sprinkling a little incense on a false idol or bowing to Caesar as "god" is no big deal in the eyes of God like is claimed by these "enlightened ones" of today LOL.

We who believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints in no way profess a dead faith, nor are we antinomians...yet when it comes to soteriology we do believe we are saved through the belief of the death of Jesus Christ for our sins and His resurrection. This is the entirety of the gospel for salvation.

What we believe about works is it is the natural progression and out working of being born again. These works do nothing to secure or maintain our salvation. These works are accredited to God as working in and through us.

We do not believe that sin will disqualify any born again believer for the free gift of salvation. All sin is deliberate, yet repentance is the natural working of God in us through the conviction He places on us. We believe as His children we are chastised but not condemned.

 

[ATP]

Wow, that was unnecessary, especially since he advocates obedience and you advocate rebellion - which is what got Lucifer kicked out of heaven. SMH

Well, it is necessary. The devil is speaking through you, lying to you, telling you that Phoneman can lose his salvation and be thrown into hell if he sins. You are teaching a Hitler doctrine to all those guests who are reading your posts. You simply refuse to accept what Jesus did on the cross for you, dying for all of Phoneman's sins, even your sins you will commit tomorrow.

The premise of your entire belief is that a born again believer can be thrown into the lake of fire, when in fact the lake of fire is God's wrath poured out on nonbelievers Rev 14:10 NIV, and scripture clearly states that believers are not appointed to wrath Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 9:22 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV.

 

[ATP]

Jesus died once for all time for all sins, past present and future. How does one lose their salvation if even my future sins are covered in the blood of Jesus.

Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

2015 is the year of light..2 Cor 11:14 NIV And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

 

[Phoneman777]

Matt 24:12 agape love is the love of believers quenching the spirit.


You didn't answer my question. Are the blood moons from aliens, the devil or God. Oh how easy it is to answer it. Will Phoneman answer it, we shall see.

ATP, I can't tell you how proud I am of you for acknowledging that the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV are in fact "saints", which you claim retain salvation although their AGAPE has grown cold and dead.

However, if the saints are known by their AGAPE for one another (John 13:35 KJV), are known by their AGAPE for God Whom they have not seen (1 John 4:20 KJV), and are known for having the AGAPE of God perfected in them (1 John 2:5 KJV), HOW CAN ANYONE WHO NO LONGER POSSESSES AGAPE BE ANY LONGER NUMBERED WITH THE SAINTS?????

(BTW, this thread is not about blood moons, it's about the Sabbath. Please start another thread if you want to talk about that stuff.)

 

[Phoneman777]

We who believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints in no way profess a dead faith, nor are we antinomians...yet when it comes to soteriology we do believe we are saved through the belief of the death of Jesus Christ for our sins and His resurrection. This is the entirety of the gospel for salvation.

What we believe about works is it is the natural progression and out working of being born again. These works do nothing to secure or maintain our salvation. These works are accredited to God as working in and through us.

We do not believe that sin will disqualify any born again believer for the free gift of salvation. All sin is deliberate, yet repentance is the natural working of God in us through the conviction He places on us. We believe as His children we are chastised but not condemned.

ATP, Living Faith is what secures and maintains salvation because Living Faith is our faith in God that He died to redeem us and also to perform His works in us (Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV; James 2:20-26 KJV). What you preach is Dead Faith which is faith in God without God's works in us and Dead Faith can never obtain that which only Living Faith can obtain: Eternal Life (James 2:26 KJV).

 

[Phoneman777]

Well, it is necessary. The devil is speaking through you, lying to you, telling you that Phoneman can lose his salvation and be thrown into hell if he sins. You are teaching a Hitler doctrine to all those guests who are reading your posts. You simply refuse to accept what Jesus did on the cross for you, dying for all of Phoneman's sins, even your sins you will commit tomorrow.

The premise of your entire belief is that a born again believer can be thrown into the lake of fire, when in fact the lake of fire is God's wrath poured out on nonbelievers Rev 14:10 NIV, and scripture clearly states that believers are not appointed to wrath Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 9:22 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV.

ATP, I pray that every single guest who reads my exegesis will cast off this notion that anything less than a day by day, moment by moment surrender to Christ can result in eternal life and that by His grace past sins may be forgiven, as well as any future sins through repentance of the same. Deliberate, known sin from which we refuse to repent - like refusing to keep the Sabbath - is an act of rebellion by which the grace of God is cast aside and endangers the offender of eternal damnation.

 

[ATP]

HOW CAN ANYONE WHO NO LONGER POSSESSES AGAPE BE ANY LONGER NUMBERED WITH THE SAINTS?????

Matt 24:12-13 doesn't say they are no longer numbered with the saints. Matt 24:13 specifically is referring to being saved from war, not personal salvation. Waxing cold is in reference to 1 Thess 5:19 NIV. Quenching the spirit and losing salvation or polar opposite. Our example, once again, is Christ. He was never lacking in fervor, never tiring when an opportunity to serve His Father presented itself. Christ saw that there would be a decline in our fervor in times of evil: "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:12,13).

Naturally, the fire of our spirit wanes at times, blown cold by distractions of the world. The fuel for our spiritual fervor is the Spirit of God. As the fire of our spirit wanes, we should ask the Spirit of God to rekindle the flames in order to renew our fervor. Even in times when our fire burns bright, we should ask the Spirit to keep it burning strong.

Strong's #5594: psucho (pronounced psoo'-kho)

a primary verb; to breathe (voluntarily but gently, thus differing on the one hand from 4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of 109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), i.e. (by implication, of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively):--wax cold.

Thayer's Greek Lexiconsuchō

1) to breathe, blow, cool by blowing
2) to be made or grow cool or cold
3) metaphorically of waning love

5594 psýxō (originally, "to breathe out," cf. J. Thayer) – properly, "to blow, refresh with cool air" (Zod, Dict); (figuratively) "to breathe cool by blowing, to grow cold, 'spiritual energy blighted or chilled by a malign or poisonous wind' " (M. Vincent), used only in Mt 24:12.

ATP, Living Faith is what secures and maintains salvation because Living Faith is our faith in God that He died to redeem us and also to perform His works in us (Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV; James 2:20-26 KJV). What you preach is Dead Faith which is faith in God without God's works in us and Dead Faith can never obtain that which only Living Faith can obtain: Eternal Life (James 2:26 KJV).

Well no. I do believe faith without works is dead. I'm not debating that, rather it is our definition of works that we disagree with. There's that word believe again....

James 2:23 NIV And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness, and he was called God’s friend.

 

[ATP]

ATP, I pray that every single guest who reads my exegesis will cast off this notion that anything less than a day by day, moment by moment surrender to Christ can result in eternal life and that by His grace past sins may be forgiven, as well as any future sins through repentance of the same. Deliberate, known sin from which we refuse to repent - like refusing to keep the Sabbath - is an act of rebellion by which the grace of God is cast aside and endangers the offender of eternal damnation.

You're tossing "hell" into your doctrine. There is not one scripture that says if we quench the spirit we go to hell. Zero.

 

[Barrd]

Jesus dying for all sins does address the question. You just do not accept what Jesus did on the cross.

You just don't accept that His love requires a response. You think He went through all of that suffering so that you could sin with impunity.
OSAS is a vicious lie perpetrated by the Father of lies....it is designed to lure you into thinking that you have no responsibility for how you live your life, much less how you conduct yourself.
How is it that people do not recognize the oldest lie in the Book?
Listen...."Thou shalt not surely die"....doesn't that phrase sound even the slightest bit familiar?

Wait...maybe this sounds more familiar to you:

“You will not certainly die”
Yes, I can hear the whisper in your ear even now..."Don't worry, Jesus died for your sins, didn't He? He won't mind if you do this thing. You will not certainly die..."

Don't be a chump, ATP. Eve at least had the excuse that she'd never heard a lie before. But still, she knew God had said not to eat from that tree. And her disobedience cost her everything.

You, on the other hand, live in a fallen world. You know very well what a lie is...and you know who it is who told that first lie, and who continues to tell that same lie today. You know better...or you should. Yet you not only believe that evil lie, you try to spread it to others, to lure them into the same trap.

Jesus can protect you from that old liar...but you have to get to know Him.
The Sermon on the Mount, ATP...
Some of the most important scriptures in the entire Bible. Jesus reveals His heart in these timeless words. Read it, believe it, and follow it...and that old liar will run from you as if he were on fire....

 

[Barrd]

Quenching the spirit does not mean they are lost. Lost is only a term given to nonbelievers. Praise God!

Luke 19:9-10 NIV Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Yes....and who is an unbeliever but the one who refuses to hear Jesus and obey Him?

The story of Zacchaeus is one of my favorites:

Luk 19:1 And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
Luk 19:2 And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
Luk 19:3 And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
Luk 19:4 And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
Luk 19:5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
Luk 19:6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
Luk 19:7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
Luk 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
Luk 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Notice, Zacchaeus responded to Jesus. He repented of his sin. He gave half of everything he had to the poor, and restored the money he had stolen, fourfold. None of that stuff meant anything to him anymore. He had met Jesus! And his whole world changed.

Oh, if Zacchaeus could be here with us, I'm sure he'd tell you what so many others are trying so hard to tell you. Run, ATP...run from that slimy trap that has been set for you! OSAS is a snare...do not get entangled in it! Do not listen to that vicious lie...come...come and follow Jesus, in peace, and in love. You won't be sorry!

 

[Barrd]

ATP, I pray that every single guest who reads my exegesis will cast off this notion that anything less than a day by day, moment by moment surrender to Christ can result in eternal life and that by His grace past sins may be forgiven, as well as any future sins through repentance of the same. Deliberate, known sin from which we refuse to repent - like refusing to keep the Sabbath - is an act of rebellion by which the grace of God is cast aside and endangers the offender of eternal damnation.

Phoneman, I humbly join with you in this prayer. May everyone who reads these words understand and grow in faith...and in the grace of God.

 

[Barrd]

We who believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints in no way profess a dead faith, nor are we antinomians...yet when it comes to soteriology we do believe we are saved through the belief of the death of Jesus Christ for our sins and His resurrection. This is the entirety of the gospel for salvation.

Yes, ATP. I believe this, too.
Although I would add that "perserverence" implies persistence...in this case, holding on to the faith that was once delivered to them.

What we believe about works is it is the natural progression and out working of being born again. These works do nothing to secure or maintain our salvation. These works are accredited to God as working in and through us.

Yes, ATP. That is why someone who has truly been born again will repent. They will seek to renew their faith on a daily basis. They will strive to be obedient to the law of God. The Holy Spirit within them will work through them...and the result is that they will live a holy life.
Someone who has truly been born again will not glorify themselves....they will glorify Christ.

 

[Barrd]

We do not believe that sin will disqualify any born again believer for the free gift of salvation. All sin is deliberate, yet repentance is the natural working of God in us through the conviction He places on us. We believe as His children we are chastised but not condemned.

Here is where we part company. Yes, sin can and often does disqualify the believer for the free gift of salvation.
Yes, as you say, the Spirit within the born again believer will lead him to repentance....but he must make the final decision. God will not force anyone to his or her knees. You can choose to repent...or you can choose to remain in your sin. Unfortunately, the idea that all sins have been paid for convinces many that they can continue in their sin, and while they might be "chastised", they will never go to hell.
The lie is that you can remain in your sin....and since Jesus' blood has covered your sin, you will still go to heaven.

 

[Barrd]

You're tossing "hell" into your doctrine. There is not one scripture that says if we quench the spirit we go to hell. Zero.

Luk 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

You should read what Jesus has to say in this chapter.

 

[ATP]

You just don't accept that His love requires a response. You think He went through all of that suffering so that you could sin with impunity.
OSAS is a vicious lie perpetrated by the Father of lies....it is designed to lure you into thinking that you have no responsibility for how you live your life, much less how you conduct yourself.

We who believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints in no way profess a dead faith, nor are we antinomians...yet when it comes to soteriology we do believe we are saved through the belief of the death of Jesus Christ for our sins and His resurrection. This is the entirety of the gospel for salvation.

What we believe about works is it is the natural progression and out working of being born again. These works do nothing to secure or maintain our salvation. These works are accredited to God as working in and through us.

We do not believe that sin will disqualify any born again believer for the free gift of salvation. All sin is deliberate, yet repentance is the natural working of God in us through the conviction He places on us. We believe as His children we are chastised but not condemned.

How is it that people do not recognize the oldest lie in the Book?
Listen...."Thou shalt not surely die"....doesn't that phrase sound even the slightest bit familiar?

Wait...maybe this sounds more familiar to you:

“You will not certainly die”
Yes, I can hear the whisper in your ear even now..."Don't worry, Jesus died for your sins, didn't He? He won't mind if you do this thing. You will not certainly die..."

Sin bringing death vs losing salvation are two completely different subjects. Please stick to the topic at hand.

You, on the other hand, live in a fallen world. You know very well what a lie is...and you know who it is who told that first lie, and who continues to tell that same lie today. You know better...or you should. Yet you not only believe that evil lie, you try to spread it to others, to lure them into the same trap.

Jesus can protect you from that old liar...but you have to get to know Him.
The Sermon on the Mount, ATP...
Some of the most important scriptures in the entire Bible. Jesus reveals His heart in these timeless words. Read it, believe it, and follow it...and that old liar will run from you as if he were on fire....

And because we live in a fallen world is the main reason why we are covered in the blood of Jesus. Instead of actually learning what Matt 5:22 NIV really means, you continue on with your rants.

Luk 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

The "lost" represents nonbelievers Barrd.

Yes, ATP. That is why someone who has truly been born again will repent. They will seek to renew their faith on a daily basis. They will strive to be obedient to the law of God. The Holy Spirit within them will work through them...and the result is that they will live a holy life.
Someone who has truly been born again will not glorify themselves....they will glorify Christ.

I agree.

Unfortunately, the idea that all sins have been paid for convinces many that they can continue in their sin, and while they might be "chastised", they will never go to hell.
The lie is that you can remain in your sin....and since Jesus' blood has covered your sin, you will still go to heaven.

The devil has convinced you of what you think we believe. Walk away from the voices Barrd. We don't think these things. I have been posting these scriptures for the past month. Maybe you should read them this time...Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 John 3:6 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 1 John 5:18 NIV

Believers not being condemned is simply a fact of God. If you have issues with that, then I suggest you pray about it...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV

Luk 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

You should read what Jesus has to say in this chapter.

Believers no longer have the spirit of fear...Rom 8:15 ESV, 2 Tim 1:7 ESV, Heb 2:14-15 ESV, 1 John 4:18 ESV

And who is He casting into hell Barrd, Rev 20:15 NIV.....

Luke 10:18-20 NIV He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Phil 4:3 NIV Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Heb 12:22-24 NIV But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Rev 3:5 NIV The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

Rev 13:8 NIV All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

Rev 17:8 NIV The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

Rev 20:12-15 NIV And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:27 NIV Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

 

[Barrd]

We who believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints in no way profess a dead faith, nor are we antinomians...yet when it comes to soteriology we do believe we are saved through the belief of the death of Jesus Christ for our sins and His resurrection. This is the entirety of the gospel for salvation.

What we believe about works is it is the natural progression and out working of being born again. These works do nothing to secure or maintain our salvation. These works are accredited to God as working in and through us.

We do not believe that sin will disqualify any born again believer for the free gift of salvation. All sin is deliberate, yet repentance is the natural working of God in us through the conviction He places on us. We believe as His children we are chastised but not condemned.


Sin bringing death vs losing salvation are two completely different subjects. Please stick to the topic at hand.


And because we live in a fallen world is the main reason why we are covered in the blood of Jesus. Instead of actually learning what Matt 5:22 NIV really means, you continue on with your rants.


The "lost" represents nonbelievers Barrd.


I agree.


The devil has convinced you of what you think we believe. Walk away from the voices Barrd. We don't think these things. I have been posting these scriptures for the past month. Maybe you should read them this time...Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 John 3:6 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 1 John 5:18 NIV

Believers not being condemned is simply a fact of God. If you have issues with that, then I suggest you pray about it...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV


Believers no longer have the spirit of fear...Rom 8:15 ESV, 2 Tim 1:7 ESV, Heb 2:14-15 ESV, 1 John 4:18 ESV

And who is He casting into hell Barrd, Rev 20:15 NIV.....

Luke 10:18-20 NIV He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Phil 4:3 NIV Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Heb 12:22-24 NIV But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Rev 3:5 NIV The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

Rev 13:8 NIV All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

Rev 17:8 NIV The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

Rev 20:12-15 NIV And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:27 NIV Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

:blink:
I'm not going through this wall of text at this hour, ATP....it's all stuff you've said before, over and over and over again, ad nauseaum. :wacko:
I will just say this...
Sin bringing death and losing salvation are not different topics.
To think that a believer can sin, and not lose his or her salvation is the same thing as believing that a believer can sin and not suffer the death that sin brings. Sin is sin, whether an atheist does it, or whether a devout Christian does it. The difference, of course, is that the Christian believes in God, and the atheist does not. Therefore, the Christian is held to a greater responsibility for his or her sin....to whom much is given much will also be required.

And how are we to model Christian behavior (i.e. be the light of the world) if we don't know ourselves how to behave?
How are we going to keep the world from corruption (i.e. be the salt of the earth...a task we have failed miserably at, by the way), if we allow corruption in ourselves?

No, ATP....all of your "Blessed Assurance" verses do not change the fact that sin has devastating effects, both on the sinner him or herself...and also on the people around him/her.

 

[Phoneman777]

Matt 24:12-13 doesn't say they are no longer numbered with the saints. Matt 24:13 specifically is referring to being saved from war, not personal salvation. Waxing cold is in reference to 1 Thess 5:19 NIV. Quenching the spirit and losing salvation or polar opposite. Our example, once again, is Christ. He was never lacking in fervor, never tiring when an opportunity to serve His Father presented itself. Christ saw that there would be a decline in our fervor in times of evil: "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:12,13).

Naturally, the fire of our spirit wanes at times, blown cold by distractions of the world. The fuel for our spiritual fervor is the Spirit of God. As the fire of our spirit wanes, we should ask the Spirit of God to rekindle the flames in order to renew our fervor. Even in times when our fire burns bright, we should ask the Spirit to keep it burning strong.

Strong's #5594: psucho (pronounced psoo'-kho)

a primary verb; to breathe (voluntarily but gently, thus differing on the one hand from 4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of 109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), i.e. (by implication, of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively):--wax cold.

Thayer's Greek Lexiconsuchō

1) to breathe, blow, cool by blowing
2) to be made or grow cool or cold
3) metaphorically of waning love

5594 psýxō (originally, "to breathe out," cf. J. Thayer) – properly, "to blow, refresh with cool air" (Zod, Dict); (figuratively) "to breathe cool by blowing, to grow cold, 'spiritual energy blighted or chilled by a malign or poisonous wind' " (M. Vincent), used only in Mt 24:12.


Well no. I do believe faith without works is dead. I'm not debating that, rather it is our definition of works that we disagree with. There's that word believe again....

James 2:23 NIV And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness, and he was called God’s friend.

ATP, "waning", "cooling" and "chilling" have to do with the process by which their agape would grow cold and dead, not the end result of that process which is COLD, DEAD AGAPE. Jesus didn't say their agape would "cool off somewhat but still remain" as you so desperately want the verse to mean. The little word "but" of the following verse is a "conjunction which contrasts what is previously mentioned" and when Jesus says "But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved", He is contrasting the many saints who allowed their agape to become cold and dead through the willful indulgence in sin with the saint who endures the temptation to do so and thus his agape remains "perfected in him by God" (1 John 2:5 KJV).

The saints are known by "the agape of God perfected in them", and "waning, cooled, agape" to be perfected agape, my confused friend.

Also, why do you accept Jesus' general definition of the "works of God" which is "believe" but reject Jesus' specific definition of "works" given to us through the Jesus-inspired writings of James, which clearly includes obedience to "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not commit adultery" through the indwelling power of Jesus in the life? Cherry picking is unacceptable exegesis, friend.

 

[Phoneman777]

You're tossing "hell" into your doctrine. There is not one scripture that says if we quench the spirit we go to hell. Zero.

Quenching the Spirit is the Unpardonable Sin because a backsliding saint's refusal to heed the pleadings of the Holy Spirit to return to Him will result in the loss of that saint's ability to ask for pardon due to the loss of the sense of need for that pardon, in the same way quenching your thirst causes you to no longer feel thirsty.