Sabbath-Keeping

[mjrhealth]

But that one day...that one special day each week...has been set aside, and sanctified as a day of rest. A time to rejuvenate. Time to spend with family, or just off by yourself.
It is a gift, though there are those who try to turn it into a burden.

Every day with God is special to me, I cannot put anyone above another, God is always with me as is Christ, everyday everymoment i spend with them is pure gold, there is nothing better. As for rest, I rest in Jesus everyday, from my works, I have no burdens to carry, no day is a burden to me nor to those who are His.He is our life.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In all His Love

 

[Barrd]

Every day with God is special to me, I cannot put anyone above another, God is always with me as is Christ, everyday everymoment i spend with them is pure gold, there is nothing better. As for rest, I rest in Jesus everyday, from my works, I have no burdens to carry, no day is a burden to me nor to those who are His.He is our life.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In all His Love

That's all great, MJ...but what about the people around you?
Do you have enough love in you to extend the gift of a day away from labors to your family? Your friends? Your servants, if you have any, or your employees, if you own a business? Does someone cook for you on the Sabbath, or do any other chores for you?

I love the quote from Matthew. But do you know what the yoke is, or the burden? Or are these just pretty words to you?

 

[UppsalaDragby]

I still believe that God's laws are for all people and for all time.

I can understand that you believe so, but do you think that physical circumcision was for all people for all time?

Of course you don't, and I don't really think that you are trying to make that kind of argument, but my aim is to get you to think, and not to rashly say things that actually contradict scripture. The book of Hebrews teaches us that there actually WAS a "change in the law". Does that mean that God himself changed? No it doesn't. But he changed the law due to his desire to show mercy to those who acknowledge that they cannot keep the law - including both you and I.

On the other hand, God does have a standard for perfection. The idea that he does is not something that I am arguing against.

But having a standard of perfection is not the same thing as having an eternal law. We can obviously learn from the law what God's requirements for perfection are, but it make no difference whatsoever which laws we consider ourselves to be under if we fail to keep that law.

I still believe that God is the source of morality, and that His laws are basic common sense.
Although we are not "under the law" in the sense that if we trespass even a wee little bit, we are condemned to hell, yet we may not break God's laws with impunity.

Exactly! And I think that this is a very important point - basic common sense.

Just as Paul pointed out:

"The acts of the sinful nature are obvious".

What ISN'T obvious is that we are therefore "under the 10 commandments", when scripture, in SEVERAL places, indicates that:

1) the 10 commmandments do not prevent the acts of the sinful nature.

2) the Old Covenant is obsolete, and that we are no longer under the Mosaic law.

3) we have a superior covenant that DOES do what the old covenant failed to do, and

4) scripture singles out the old covenant law and SPECIFICALLY the sabbath as being a shadow, pointing towards Christ.

We don't need the Old Covenant law any more. We have the Spirit of Christ!

Does the Spirit of Christ teach us what is morally right or wrong? Yes! Does the Spirit of Christ do what the OT laws failed to do? Yes! Does the Spirit of Christ ever contradict what the OT laws taught us? No!

Once we have that Spirit of Christ then the old covenant laws, just as scripture declares, are obsolete.

I don't know why everyone is so insistent on taking the joy out of my worship.

No one is trying to do that!!! At least not me!

Relax on saturday! Worship on saturday! Focus, and dedicate your time, on fellowshipping with the Lord on saturday. Experience joy on saturday!

I don't have a problem with that!

Just look back at what I said earlier on. I made a referrence to Romans 14, did I not? That chaptere deals with different ways we try to approach God. Here is the context:

"Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.
One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God."

Now MY theology completely accepts the fact that SDAs and others consider saturday to be more sacred than another. It also does not have a problem with the fact that you think it helps you to eat certain foods. And even if your faith requires that you stand on your head every day for an hour or so then that too is no "problem" for me.

The problem is when people try to peddle the false doctrine that dictates that the 10 commandment were given to everyone and that we therefore are REQUIRED to keep the sabbath. That stands in DIRECT contradiction to what scripture says.

 

[mjrhealth]

That's all great, MJ...but what about the people around you?
Do you have enough love in you to extend the gift of a day away from labors to your family? Your friends? Your servants, if you have any, or your employees, if you own a business? Does someone cook for you on the Sabbath, or do any other chores for you?

I love the quote from Matthew. But do you know what the yoke is, or the burden? Or are these just pretty words to you?

You have missed the whole point of the sabbath rest. In fact I spend most of my days looking after my granddaughter, who is no burden to me, even oi my days off and weekends. I could tell you thinhgs about my life that confound even the people at work. But that is just the way it is for those who are in Christ.

In all His Love

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Upp, your problem is that you fail to understand the difference between the just man who falls seven times and rises up again (Proverbs 24:16 KJV) and the unjust man to whom Jesus will say, "Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:23 KJV).

Well, talk about someone who JUST DOESN'T LISTEN!

I told you in post #1052 (I can hardly believe that there are so many posts in this thread, but someone just talking past everyone else might explain it!) that:

"Now there is a difference between stumbling, and wallowing. What Paul was adressing was the attitude that it doesn't matter if I wallow because I am under grace. That is the attitude he was addressing. The fact that you try to twist this around to make it say that we are under a law that Paul taught us we are NOT under, is laughable."

Once again, you ignore what is being said, for the sake of missrepresenting what someone else believes. And you do this because it is more important for you to promote your doctrine than to be honest. Your entire theology is based on insinuating that others love sin, whereas you are righteous. Now doesn't that remind you of a similar group of people, who were righteous in their own eyes and thought they were special?

The just man "falls" into the pit of sin, and with a tearful, sorrowed heart, he clasps the hand of Jesus and is put back on the path of righteousness with renewed determination to do as His Savior bids him from there on out. Do you finally get it? He "falls" into it. When a child learning to walk falls down, does the father scold the child or slap the child? No, he lifts him up, wipes away the tears, encourages him saying, "you can do this! you can do this!" and taking by the hand, he bids him to keep trying until he finally learns to walk. Grace is ever proffered for the man who strives to learn to "walk even as He walked." (1 John 2:6 KJV)

Another strawman.

You get it? Probably not..

Why not get back to me when you have run out of strawmen?

Conversely, the professed Christian who almost breaks his neck hurrying over to the pit, leaps down into it, sits down among the filth and makes himself at home with no intent to leave is "unjust and filthy" (Revelation 22:11 KJV) and will soon hear Jesus say, "Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." This is exactly the fate which awaits those who deliberately "break any one of the least of these commandments and teaches men to do so." (Matthew 5:19 KJV) Stop teaching people that we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments.

And get back to me when you can scripturally prove that teaching people that they are obligated to keep the 10 commandments prevents them from doing works of iniquity. Scripture teaches us that legalism does not do that, but that folling the Spirit does.

Why are you trying to reintroduce legalism, when scripture teaches us that it leads to death and condemnation?

 

[mjrhealth]

Now doesn't that remind you of a similar group of people, who were righteous in their own eyes and thought they were special

Yes i think that has being around at least twice.

Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

Enjoying your posts Upsalla

 

[Phoneman777]

Every day with God is special to me, I cannot put anyone above another, God is always with me as is Christ, everyday everymoment i spend with them is pure gold, there is nothing better. As for rest, I rest in Jesus everyday, from my works, I have no burdens to carry, no day is a burden to me nor to those who are His.He is our life.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In all His Love

It doesn't matter what's "special to me". God never made every day "special". He made only one day "special" by blessing and sanctifying it and commands you, mrhealth, as well as the rest of us to work the six days He hasn't blessed and only then rest on the one He has blessed. Yes, do rejoice in every day that the Lord has made, but "Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it HOLY".

The continuous rest in Christ of which His servants partake does not grant them liberty to disobey Jesus, the Master to Whom they are to be yielded in obedience. (Romans 6:16 KJV) The claim that this rest in Christ supersedes obedience to the Ten Commandments which He Himself wrote with His own finger in stone is the great sin of presumption.

 

[Phoneman777]

Well, talk about someone who JUST DOESN'T LISTEN!

I told you in post #1052 (I can hardly believe that there are so many posts in this thread, but someone just talking past everyone else might explain it!) that:

"Now there is a difference between stumbling, and wallowing. What Paul was adressing was the attitude that it doesn't matter if I wallow because I am under grace. That is the attitude he was addressing. The fact that you try to twist this around to make it say that we are under a law that Paul taught us we are NOT under, is laughable."

Once again, you ignore what is being said, for the sake of missrepresenting what someone else believes. And you do this because it is more important for you to promote your doctrine than to be honest. Your entire theology is based on insinuating that others love sin, whereas you are righteous. Now doesn't that remind you of a similar group of people, who were righteous in their own eyes and thought they were special?




And get back to me when you can scripturally prove that teaching people that they are obligated to keep the 10 commandments prevents them from doing works of iniquity. Scripture teaches us that legalism does not do that, but that folling the Spirit does.

Why are you trying to reintroduce legalism, when scripture teaches us that it leads to death and condemnation?

I don't read most of your posts because they are nauseatingly lengthy and based in, from the occasions that I do read them, Scriptural distortion (like your idea that we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments but we are not at liberty to act in a way that is contrary to them). I don't waste my time addressing ideas which emanate from such a confused, deluded mind, and I mean no offense by saying that, bro.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments" and if you are not willing to declare publicly that we are at liberty to break the other Ten Commandments, then stop weaving these tangles webs and inventing these ridiculous theories that seek to characterize behavior that is contrary to them as behavior that is in harmony with them, ie: telling people that ignoring the directive to work six days and rest the seventh is the same as acting in harmony with it.

 

[Barrd]

Well, talk about someone who JUST DOESN'T LISTEN!

Yeah....some people are like that. They JUST WON'T LISTEN!
They just want to talk over the top of everyone else, as if whatever they have to say is the end-all and be-all...

In your daft insistence that I am trying to peddle the Old Covenant, I think you missed something I said, so I'm going to repost for you.
Maybe this time you'll answer my actual question to you, instead of totally ignoring what I'm saying in order to keep pushing your own agenda.
One can always hope, anyway...

Are the Ten Commandments still binding in our time?
You tell me.
What Christian would dare to suggest that it would be alright if I:
1. Worshiped some other god? Perhaps I might want to add the Roman pantheon of gods to my worship of the Christian God? Or, being female, maybe I could also worship the Wiccan goddess?
2. Had an idol and worshiped it? Athena, the goddess of wisdom makes a pretty statue...she'd go very well with my living room decor. And who couldn't use a bit of wisdom?
3. Yeah, I used God's name to curse! That guy cut me off just as I was about to make my turn!
4. For some reason, Christians don't seem too worried about this one. Strange...
5. My Mom makes me so mad! She criticizes every thing I do! I just want to smack her face and get it over with! Would that be okay?
6. I know my uncle left all his money and property to me and I'm broke. I need to kill him, so I can collect. I'm not "under the law"...so it'd be okay, right? As long as I plan it well and don't get caught?
7. I'm bored with my husband. An exciting new man has moved into the neighborhood, and he's been giving me "the look". Would it be okay if I go and play a little? What hubby doesn't know won't hurt him, right?
8 Back to that rich uncle...murder is so messy, you know? Maybe I could just steal something valuable from him? Why not? I'm not "under the law" any more, right?
9. I hate that new girl at work! She thinks she's all that. She's younger than I am, and she's getting all the attention that I was used to! I think I'll start a few rumors about her...after all, I'm not "under the law"...and this is a matter of keeping my place!
10. All of these sins start in the heart...but if we're not "under the law" it's alright to think this way, isn't it?

Do you see where I'm going, here? Of course, none of these things are now okay...how silly! Nor should any Christian even think this way.
Don't you see that God's laws are natural, and right? The whole world keeps these laws, without even realizing that they are keeping God's law. To say that these necessary rules for life have been "abolished" or, fapeetsakes "nailed to the cross" is just the height of ridiculous, and Paul never meant any such nonsense.
Of course, it is not possible for us to keep these laws perfectly. Thoughts such as those I outlined above do slip into our unruly minds and we'd be liars if we tried to deny it.

Now I'm looking for your opinion. You say we are no longer "under the law". I wonder if you've ever really thought about what that means?

 

[Phoneman777]

No it is not impossble! This is EASY to prove. The Bible teaches us that there was a time when there was NO LAW, but that sin was in the world. During that time morality existed

You cannot have "sin" without first having a law to transgress because sin is "transgression of the law". (1 John 3:4 KJV)
"Where there is no law, there is no transgression." (Romans 4:15 KJV)
"By the law is the knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:20 KJV)

Until heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle shall in any wise pass from the law (that remains un-nailed to the Cross) until all is fulfilled.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yeah....some people are like that. They JUST WON'T LISTEN!
They just want to talk over the top of everyone else, as if whatever they have to say is the end-all and be-all...

In your daft insistence that I am trying to peddle the Old Covenant, I think you missed something I said, so I'm going to repost for you.
Maybe this time you'll answer my actual question to you, instead of totally ignoring what I'm saying in order to keep pushing your own agenda.
One can always hope, anyway...

Are the Ten Commandments still binding in our time?
You tell me.
What Christian would dare to suggest that it would be alright if I:
1. Worshiped some other god? Perhaps I might want to add the Roman pantheon of gods to my worship of the Christian God? Or, being female, maybe I could also worship the Wiccan goddess?
2. Had an idol and worshiped it? Athena, the goddess of wisdom makes a pretty statue...she'd go very well with my living room decor. And who couldn't use a bit of wisdom?
3. Yeah, I used God's name to curse! That guy cut me off just as I was about to make my turn!
4. For some reason, Christians don't seem too worried about this one. Strange...
5. My Mom makes me so mad! She criticizes every thing I do! I just want to smack her face and get it over with! Would that be okay?
6. I know my uncle left all his money and property to me and I'm broke. I need to kill him, so I can collect. I'm not "under the law"...so it'd be okay, right? As long as I plan it well and don't get caught?
7. I'm bored with my husband. An exciting new man has moved into the neighborhood, and he's been giving me "the look". Would it be okay if I go and play a little? What hubby doesn't know won't hurt him, right?
8 Back to that rich uncle...murder is so messy, you know? Maybe I could just steal something valuable from him? Why not? I'm not "under the law" any more, right?
9. I hate that new girl at work! She thinks she's all that. She's younger than I am, and she's getting all the attention that I was used to! I think I'll start a few rumors about her...after all, I'm not "under the law"...and this is a matter of keeping my place!
10. All of these sins start in the heart...but if we're not "under the law" it's alright to think this way, isn't it?

Do you see where I'm going, here? Of course, none of these things are now okay...how silly! Nor should any Christian even think this way.
Don't you see that God's laws are natural, and right? The whole world keeps these laws, without even realizing that they are keeping God's law. To say that these necessary rules for life have been "abolished" or, fapeetsakes "nailed to the cross" is just the height of ridiculous, and Paul never meant any such nonsense.
Of course, it is not possible for us to keep these laws perfectly. Thoughts such as those I outlined above do slip into our unruly minds and we'd be liars if we tried to deny it.

Now I'm looking for your opinion. You say we are no longer "under the law". I wonder if you've ever really thought about what that means?

I have repeatedly asked Upp to publicly declare that we may worship Satan, engage in idolatry, blaspheme God, etc. since he claims that we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments. His response is this insane philosophy that "we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, but we are not at liberty to act contrary to them" - two ideas that are diametrically opposed to each other that he seeks to harmonize in one breath.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Yeah....some people are like that. They JUST WON'T LISTEN!
They just want to talk over the top of everyone else, as if whatever they have to say is the end-all and be-all...

In your daft insistence that I am trying to peddle the Old Covenant, I think you missed something I said, so I'm going to repost for you.
Maybe this time you'll answer my actual question to you, instead of totally ignoring what I'm saying in order to keep pushing your own agenda.
One can always hope, anyway...

Are the Ten Commandments still binding in our time?
You tell me.
What Christian would dare to suggest that it would be alright if I:
1. Worshiped some other god? Perhaps I might want to add the Roman pantheon of gods to my worship of the Christian God? Or, being female, maybe I could also worship the Wiccan goddess?
2. Had an idol and worshiped it? Athena, the goddess of wisdom makes a pretty statue...she'd go very well with my living room decor. And who couldn't use a bit of wisdom?
3. Yeah, I used God's name to curse! That guy cut me off just as I was about to make my turn!
4. For some reason, Christians don't seem too worried about this one. Strange...
5. My Mom makes me so mad! She criticizes every thing I do! I just want to smack her face and get it over with! Would that be okay?
6. I know my uncle left all his money and property to me and I'm broke. I need to kill him, so I can collect. I'm not "under the law"...so it'd be okay, right? As long as I plan it well and don't get caught?
7. I'm bored with my husband. An exciting new man has moved into the neighborhood, and he's been giving me "the look". Would it be okay if I go and play a little? What hubby doesn't know won't hurt him, right?
8 Back to that rich uncle...murder is so messy, you know? Maybe I could just steal something valuable from him? Why not? I'm not "under the law" any more, right?
9. I hate that new girl at work! She thinks she's all that. She's younger than I am, and she's getting all the attention that I was used to! I think I'll start a few rumors about her...after all, I'm not "under the law"...and this is a matter of keeping my place!
10. All of these sins start in the heart...but if we're not "under the law" it's alright to think this way, isn't it?

Do you see where I'm going, here? Of course, none of these things are now okay...how silly! Nor should any Christian even think this way.
Don't you see that God's laws are natural, and right? The whole world keeps these laws, without even realizing that they are keeping God's law. To say that these necessary rules for life have been "abolished" or, fapeetsakes "nailed to the cross" is just the height of ridiculous, and Paul never meant any such nonsense.
Of course, it is not possible for us to keep these laws perfectly. Thoughts such as those I outlined above do slip into our unruly minds and we'd be liars if we tried to deny it.

Now I'm looking for your opinion. You say we are no longer "under the law". I wonder if you've ever really thought about what that means?

I have already answered your question, which demonstrates who it is that isn't listening. We are NOT under the 10 commandments, we are under the law of Christ.

IF it is your contention that the law of Christ allows us to lie, steal, worship other Gods, and so on.. then please, please, please present your case!

Otherwise why are you trying to give a false testimony?

And just as I have challenged both you and ALL other sabbatarians on this thread, please point out where I have said that it is "OK" to sin!!

THAT is what is "silly".

 

[UppsalaDragby]

I don't read most of your posts because they are nauseatingly lengthy and based in, from the occasions that I do read them, Scriptural distortion (like your idea that we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments but we are not at liberty to act in a way that is contrary to them).

Well there we have it straight from the horses mouth don't we: You (ADMITTEDLY) JUST DON'T LISTEN!

Why you don't listen is up to you, but if you are going to claim that I am distorting scripture then you need to support your claims with scripture rather than basing your entire argument around somthing I said earlier on. But of course, you don't care about quoting me in context.. all you want to do is spit out a one liner and suggest that short answers are closer to the truth that long ones do.

OK then Phoneman. Here is my short, sweet answer to that: The Mosiac covenant is obsolete. Learn to deal with it!

 

[UppsalaDragby]

You cannot have "sin" without first having a law to transgress because sin is "transgression of the law". (1 John 3:4 KJV)
"Where there is no law, there is no transgression." (Romans 4:15 KJV)
"By the law is the knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:20 KJV)

Until heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle shall in any wise pass from the law (that remains un-nailed to the Cross) until all is fulfilled.

Please try to understand that there is a difference between "sin" and "transgression"!

What John says it NOT that sin is synonymous with transgression of the law. He is saying that when someone sins (at the time the law existed!) he is breaking that law.

Why you think that Romans 4:15 or 3:20 supports you is beyond me, but let me poke a huge, gaping hole in your argument:

"before the law was given, sin was in the world." (Rom 5:14)

Hope that my response to you is not too wordy.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

I have repeatedly asked Upp to publicly declare that we may worship Satan, engage in idolatry, blaspheme God, etc. since he claims that we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments. His response is this insane philosophy that "we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, but we are not at liberty to act contrary to them" - two ideas that are diametrically opposed to each other that he seeks to harmonize in one breath.

Please don't lie Phoneman! My response is that 1) we are no longer under the Old Covenant, and 2) we are now under the law of Christ.

Now I am giving you the same challenge I have given you all along: publicly declare how keeping the law of Christ allows us to worship satan, engage in idolatry, blaspheme God etc.

Hypocrite!!! (no offense of course, bro)

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Yes i think that has being around at least twice.

Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

Enjoying your posts Upsalla

Thanks my friend! Same to you! :)

But isn't it frustrating that we have a member of this forum who openly admits that he doesn't even read what we are writing if it is too long for him to bother reading?

What a joke!!!

 

[Phoneman777]

Well there we have it straight from the horses mouth don't we: You (ADMITTEDLY) JUST DON'T LISTEN!

Why you don't listen is up to you, but if you are going to claim that I am distorting scripture then you need to support your claims with scripture rather than basing your entire argument around somthing I said earlier on. But of course, you don't care about quoting me in context.. all you want to do is spit out a one liner and suggest that short answers are closer to the truth that long ones do.

OK then Phoneman. Here is my short, sweet answer to that: The Mosiac covenant is obsolete. Learn to deal with it!

I honestly believe this is one of your best posts, not due to its content, but because it is short and to the point.

Now, you claim the believer's obligation to the Ten Commandments ended with the end of the Mosaic Law, and in doing so you've bypassed "Warp Speed" and "Hyper Speed" on spaceship Luna-C and gone right to "Ludicrous Speed". The TC existed before Sinai and will exist for all eternity, because Cain murdered Abel and didn't argue the absence of the prohibition, but that the punishment he knew he deserved was too severe, Joseph called adultery "sin", which these and other sins occurred long before Moses. Deal with that.

 

[Barrd]

I have repeatedly asked Upp to publicly declare that we may worship Satan, engage in idolatry, blaspheme God, etc. since he claims that we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments. His response is this insane philosophy that "we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, but we are not at liberty to act contrary to them" - two ideas that are diametrically opposed to each other that he seeks to harmonize in one breath.

"we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, but we are not at liberty to act contrary to them"??????

Wow. Okay, then.
There seems to be very little point in continuing to try to reason with someone who is clearly a bubble or two off.
I suppose the only thing left to do is to pray for the poor guy.
Which we should have been doing all along....
Why is that always the Christian's last resort, when we all know it should be the first thing we do?

 

[Barrd]

I have already answered your question, which demonstrates who it is that isn't listening. We are NOT under the 10 commandments, we are under the law of Christ.

IF it is your contention that the law of Christ allows us to lie, steal, worship other Gods, and so on.. then please, please, please present your case!

Otherwise why are you trying to give a false testimony?

And just as I have challenged both you and ALL other sabbatarians on this thread, please point out where I have said that it is "OK" to sin!!

THAT is what is "silly".

My contention is that the Law of Christ is the Ten Commandments...revised.
Show me where it isn't?

If you say that the Ten Commandments are "done away", then why is it not "OK" to break them?

 

[Barrd]

Thanks my friend! Same to you! :)

But isn't it frustrating that we have a member of this forum who openly admits that he doesn't even read what we are writing if it is too long for him to bother reading?

What a joke!!!

Nobody wants to read huge walls of text.
You can say the same thing without droning on and on and on and on about it.
This isn't a church service, and we are not here to listen to you give a sermon.

Not that I don't know an awful lot of pastors who could use an occasional reminder about what happened when Paul preached on till after midnight...