Sabbath-Keeping

[Phoneman777]

Phoneman, the arguments you are using here (you know, the so-called "nails in the coffin") are non-sequiturs. They don't support your claims. Romans 6:15 does not say that we are obligated to keep the 10 commandments. If it did we would be thrown back into a state of hopelessness. All it says is that we should not use grace as an excuse to sin. Obviously!!!

Who here is saying that we should use grace in order to justify sin? No one! But does that mean that we are still under the 10 commandments?

No, it absolutely does not!

It simply means that our freedom should be used correctly, in accordance to the Law of Christ. Now we, still having a carnal body will not be able to live sinlessly, and therefore we still need grace. If we didn't then Paul would never have said "grace and peace to you". We STILL need grace because we have not yet attained perfection.

Now there is a difference between stumbling, and wallowing. What Paul was adressing was the attitude that it doesn't matter if I wallow because I am under grace. That is the attitude he was addressing. The fact that you try to twist this around to make it say that we are under a law that Paul taught us we are NOT under, is laughable.

Talk about tying yourself up in knots!!!!

Do you really need Romans 6 to spell out for you that we are not free from our obligation to keep the Ten Commandments?

What do you think "sin unto death" refers to? Do you actually think worshiping Satan is NOT "sin unto death"? Or breaking the Second Commandment? Or the rest?

Do you actually want to be called "least" by those in the kingdom of heaven for breaking the Ten Commandments and teaching men to do so by telling them that we are not obligated to keep them?

Which of the Ten Commandments are we at liberty to break if we are not obligated to keep them?

What false line of reasoning has led you to believe that although we will keep the Sabbath in the kingdom throughout all eternity, we are at liberty to trample all over it in the here and now?

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Upp, it is John, not my "warped theology", who said a Christian "has no sin" - said in the context of "presumptuous, deliberate, iniquitous sin", in which no Christian should engage any sooner than a married man would deliberately have sex with another woman in front of his wife, let alone behind her back. Once you realize that we are to live in the presence of Christ, meaning with full awareness that He is watching us at all times, you will find it much easier to avoid the deliberate, known, iniquitous sin that you now so desperately attempt to excuse and thus be "without sin".

Phoneman, you used that verse to make the claim that Christains were sinless, I think it had something to do with you unsupported theory that we are now empowered to keep the 10 commandments, something that scripture doesn't say.

NOW, after I showed you how scripture disproves this, you sneakily try to change your story and pretend that you were merely referring to the fact that Christains "should" not engage in sin, something we BOTH agree on! You then follow it all up with yet another strawman - that I don't "realize" things that I definitly DO realize. Forging these kinds of strawmen is an act of dishonesty.

This is typical of your theology. You constantly tie yourself in theological knots and then look for ways to wiggle out of them until then next knot reveals itself. SDA theology contradicts itself all the time! Let me give you another example:

On the one corner of your mouth you claim that SDAs do not keep the 10 commandments in order to be saved, but then you turn around and say that those who fail to keep the 10 commandments will be thrown into the lake of fire. Hmm... sounds like you DO need to keep the 10 commandments in order to be saved.

You would be far better off if you just accept what scripture has been teaching us all along. We are NOT under the 10 commandment, but under the law of Christ. Obeying the law of Christ does not mean that we will be sinless, but that we will eventually bear fruit in keeping with righteousness. It is THAT fruit that will determine whether or not we are in Christ, and where we will spend eternity.

God most certainly created the Sabbath day in Eden because God called what He blessed in Eden "SABBATH" when He made it known to the Israelites at Sinai. "...for in six days the Lord made heaven, earth, and the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the Sabbath day, wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."

Resting from creating is not creating. Period.

Question: How could the Lord rest on the Sabbath day in Eden as He claims in Exodus 20:11 KJV if it didn't come into existence until Sinai?

Hahaha! Oh man... that makes my day. Listen Phoneman, when you come home from work and lie down on the couch for, let's say ... an hour.. , are you "creating" anything? Obviously not! And the mere fact that you introduce a law hundreds of years later, based on you little nap, does not prove that the law you introduced existed when you took your nap.

Things really get weird when theologians try to defend their doctrines...

 

[Barrd]

Phoneman, you used that verse to make the claim that Christains were sinless, I think it had something to do with you unsupported theory that we are now empowered to keep the 10 commandments, something that scritpure doesn't say.

NOW, after I showed you how scripture disproves this, you sneakily try to change your story and pretend that you were merely referring to the fact that Christains "should" not engage in sin, something we BOTH agree on! You then follow it all up with yet another strawman - that I don't "realize" things that I definitly DO realize. Forging these kinds of strawmen is an act of dishonesty.

This is typical of your theology. You constantly tie yourself in theological knots and then look for ways to wiggle out of them until then next knot reveals itself. SDA theology contradicts itself all the time! Let me give you another example:

On the one corner of your mouth you claim that SDAs do not keep the 10 commandments in order to be saved, but then you turn around and say that those who fail to keep the 10 commandments will be thrown into the lake of fire. Hmm...

You would be far better off if you just accept what scripture has been teaching us all along. We are NOT under the 10 commandment, but under the law of Christ. Obeying the law of Christ does not mean that we will be sinless, but that we will eventually bear fruit in keeping with righteousness. It is THAT fruit that will determine whether or not we are in Christ, and where we will spend eternity.


Resting from creating is not creating. Period.


Hahaha! Oh man... that makes my day. Listen Phoneman, when you come home from work and lie down on the couch for, let's say ... an hour.. , are you "creating" anything? Obviously not! And the mere fact that you introduce a law hundreds of years later, based on you little nap, does not prove that the law you introduced existed when you took your nap.

Things really get weird when theologians try to defend their doctrines...

There is just one part of all of this that confuses me.

"We are NOT under the 10 commandment, but under the law of Christ."

What, according to you, is "the law of Christ?"

If you already explained this, I apologize. I came to the party a bit late...

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Do you really need Romans 6 to spell out for you that we are not free from our obligation to keep the Ten Commandments?

Romans 6 does not mention any obligation to keep the 10 commandments. If it does, then point it out. What it does mention is sinning, which is breaking the law one is under. The law of Christ deals with the same kinds of moral issues mentioned in the decalogue, but with the flexibility that when we do sin we are not condemned as would be the case if we were under the 10 commandments.

Do you really need Romans 7-8:1 to spell that out for you?

Do you actually want to be called "least" by those in the kingdom of heaven for breaking the Ten Commandments and teaching men to do so by telling them that we are not obligated to keep them?

No I don't, do you?

And that is why I am NOT teaching others to break them, YOU are. Ironically, the fact that you teach others that we are under the 10 commandments is teaching others to break them, because it has already been pointed out that being under a written code of law fails to get any one to keep them. The only way anyone can deal with this is to do what scripture teaches us - obey the law of Christ, confess your sins, and put your faith in God who justifies the wicked.

Now you are free to do what I asked you to do the LAST time you tried to pull this trick:

Show me one comment I have made in this entire thread where I have taught anyone to break any laws or do anything morally wrong. You didn't do that last time, and you cannot do it now!

Which of the Ten Commandments are we at liberty to break if we are not obligated to keep them?

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

What false line of reasoning has led you to believe that although we will keep the Sabbath in the kingdom throughout all eternity, we are at liberty to trample all over it in the here and now?

What false line of reasoning has led you to believe that although you think you keep the sabbath you are at liberty to trample all over the 9th commandment?

 

[UppsalaDragby]

There is just one part of all of this that confuses me.

"We are NOT under the 10 commandment, but under the law of Christ."

What, according to you, is "the law of Christ?"

If you already explained this, I apologize. I came to the party a bit late...

The law of Christ is comprised of God's commandments to Christians - to believein the name of his Son, Jesus Christ and to love one another as he commanded us. Now after discussing this matter with SDAs for a few years now I think I know what to expect next. You are going to point out that the commanments were based on love and therefore let's go back in the opposite direction and keep the decalogue (apologies if that is not what you were going to say).

That sounds reasonable, but the problem is that such a conclusion ignores the rest of scripture. To start with, putting oneself under the 10 commandments is doomed to fail. The commandments themselves are holy, righteous and good, but we are not. We cannot keep the standard of righteousness that God demands and pretending that we can will only lead to a nagging feeling of condemnation because everyone knows in their hearts that they fall short of God's glory. And obviously, even if this is an argument from silence, if what the gospel was really saying is that now that we are saved we have been empowered to keep the 10 commandments, then you would expect that point to be raised over and over again. It would be central to Christain theology. But the only time the decologue is even mentioned (as a unit) in the entire NT is in 2 Cor 3:7-11, where not only is it's ministry described as something that leads to death and condemnation, it disproves the adventists claim that the 10 commandments were eternal. Notice that Paul contrasts this "fading" ministry with the one that "lasts".

Dispite this adventists inject theories into scripture, suggesting that the mere fact that since these commandments were written on stone indicates that they must therefore be permanent. Does scripture say this? No! We should never use theories about what is NOT written, to nullify what IS written.

 

[Barrd]

Romans 6 does not mention any obligation to keep the 10 commandments. If it does, then point it out. What it does mention is sinning, which is breaking the law one is under. The law of Christ deals with the same kinds of moral issues mentioned in the decalogue, but with the flexibility that when we do sin we are not condemned as would be the case if we were under the 10 commandments.

Do you really need Romans 7-8:1 to spell that out for you?

Hmmm....I think I begin to see the problem.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Obviously, this is the "New Covenant" that we have under Christ today.
This covenant is "not like" the first covenant. There are some differences.

First of all, the law will not be written on tablets of stone.
" I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." What law would that be? it is God's law.
That would be the Ten Commandments.

"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD."
How often have I heard it said that Christianity is not a religion, but rather it is a relationship? And here we see that it is so.

But the most important difference of all is this: "for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
And there it is.
Grace.
Forgiveness.

The law still applies...indeed, it is written inside our very hearts.
But now there is grace.
And that is a major difference.

 

[Barrd]

The law of Christ is comprised of God's commandments to Christians - to believein the name of his Son, Jesus Christ and to love one another as he commanded us. Now after discussing this matter with SDAs for a few years now I think I know what to expect next. You are going to point out that the commanments were based on love and therefore let's go back in the opposite direction and keep the decalogue (apologies if that is not what you were going to say).

That sounds reasonable, but the problem is that such a conclusion ignores the rest of scripture. To start with, putting oneself under the 10 commandments is doomed to fail. The commandments themselves are holy, righteous and good, but we are not. We cannot keep the standard of righteousness that God demands and pretending that we can will only lead to a nagging feeling of condemnation because everyone knows in their hearts that they fall short of God's glory. And obviously, even if this is an argument from silence, if what the gospel was really saying is that now that we are saved we have been empowered to keep the 10 commandments, then you would expect that point to be raised over and over again. It would be central to Christain theology. But the only time the decologue is even mentioned (as a unit) in the entire NT is in 2 Cor 3:7-11, where not only is it's ministry described as something that leads to death and condemnation, it disproves the adventists claim that the 10 commandments were eternal. Notice that Paul contrasts this "fading" ministry with the one that "lasts".

Dispite this adventists inject theories into scripture, suggesting that the fact that since these commandments were written on stone then they must be permanent. But we should never use theories about what is NOT written, to nullify what IS written.

Now would probably be a good time to let you know that I am not an adventist, or any other kind of "sabbatarian".
I'm just an old lady who can't understand what all the screaming about a gift of a day of rest is all about.
I look around me and I see that the whole world honors the Lord's Sabbath, whether it would or no. Isn't Saturday THE day when all the cool stuff happens? The Big Game, the Backyard Bar-B-Que, the Trip to the Beach, the Big Date (when he pops THE QUESTION)...and yes, shopping, and taking the family out to eat, or to the movies, or any number of such pursuits? Most white collar types have Saturday off, don't they? Yes, necessary services like the Police Department and the Hospital must keep their doors open on Saturday.
But seriously, what husband would not love to have a Saturday without a "honey-do list"? What wife would not appreciate a day free of her household chores? Shouldn't kids enjoy one day a week without being nagged to do their chores?
I promise that the same old grind will wait one day while we spend some time rejuvenating.
The world will not grind to a halt if you spend Saturday sleeping in, or laying in a hammock with a good book...
I honestly do not get it.

 

[Questor]

UppsalaDragby, on 29 Jul 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

The law of Christ is comprised of God's commandments to Christians - to believein the name of his Son, Jesus Christ and to love one another as he commanded us. Now after discussing this matter with SDAs for a few years now I think I know what to expect next. You are going to point out that the commanments were based on love and therefore let's go back in the opposite direction and keep the decalogue (apologies if that is not what you were going to say).

That sounds reasonable, but the problem is that such a conclusion ignores the rest of scripture. To start with, putting oneself under the 10 commandments is doomed to fail. The commandments themselves are holy, righteous and good, but we are not. We cannot keep the standard of righteousness that God demands and pretending that we can will only lead to a nagging feeling of condemnation because everyone knows in their hearts that they fall short of God's glory. And obviously, even if this is an argument from silence, if what the gospel was really saying is that now that we are saved we have been empowered to keep the 10 commandments, then you would expect that point to be raised over and over again. It would be central to Christain theology. But the only time the decologue is even mentioned (as a unit) in the entire NT is in2 Cor 3:7-11, where not only is it's ministry described as something that leads to death and condemnation, it disproves the adventists claim that the 10 commandments were eternal. Notice that Paul contrasts this "fading" ministry with the one that "lasts".

Dispite this adventists inject theories into scripture, suggesting that the fact that since these commandments were written on stone then they must be permanent. But we should never use theories about what is NOT written, to nullify what IS written.

Now would probably be a good time to let you know that I am not an adventist, or any other kind of "sabbatarian".
I'm just an old lady who can't understand what all the screaming about a gift of a day of rest is all about.
I look around me and I see that the whole world honors the Lord's Sabbath, whether it would or no. Isn't Saturday THE day when all the cool stuff happens? The Big Game, the Backyard Bar-B-Que, the Trip to the Beach, the Big Date (when he pops THE QUESTION)...and yes, shopping, and taking the family out to eat, or to the movies, or any number of such pursuits? Most white collar types have Saturday off, don't they? Yes, necessary services like the Police Department and the Hospital must keep their doors open on Saturday.
But seriously, what husband would not love to have a Saturday without a "honey-do list"? What wife would not appreciate a day free of her household chores? Shouldn't kids enjoy one day a week without being nagged to do their chores?
I promise that the same old grind will wait one day while we spend some time rejuvenating.
The world will not grind to a halt if you spend Saturday sleeping in, or laying in a hammock with a good book...
I honestly do not get it.

I also am not a Seventh Day Adventist, and know nothing of their teachings.

I am simply flummoxed that people do not attempt to please G-d by obeying Him, even though it is not a part of our actual salvation or redemption. It is a part of our blessing, both now and for eternity. Yeshua only gets you in the door of the Kingdom...but all the Light in is the City, and there are people weeping and gnashing their teeth outside of the city in the Kingdom to come.

Abba has been perfectly plain about what kind of behavior He wants from His children. Why do you not try to do what G-d wants in regard to the Sabbath when you know G-d will be pleased that you honor His wishes?

 

[UppsalaDragby]

The law still applies...indeed, it is written inside our very hearts.

I think you are reading "the 10 commandments are written inside our hearts", which is not what that scripture says. Now what Jer 31 explains is that we are under a New Covenant, so obviously it would be the law of THAT covenant which is written inside our hearts.

Now would probably be a good time to let you know that I am not an adventist, or any other kind of "sabbatarian".

That's ok, I'm not trying to put a lable on you. I usually say "SDAs, adventists and so on" just for the sake of convenience.

I get your point about saturday. It is a day when it all happens. But I try to aviod building my theology around what people do nor do not do. As far as I am concerned, we have scripture, and that is enough.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

UppsalaDragby, on 29 Jul 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

I also am not a Seventh Day Adventist, and know nothing of their teachings.

I am simply flummoxed that people do not attempt to please G-d by obeying Him, even though it is not a part of our actual salvation or redemption. It is a part of our blessing, both now and for eternity. Yeshua only gets you in the door of the Kingdom...but all the Light in is the City, and there are people weeping and gnashing their teeth outside of the city in the Kingdom to come.

Abba has been perfectly plain about what kind of behavior He wants from His children. Why do you not try to do what G-d wants in regard to the Sabbath when you know G-d will be pleased that you honor His wishes?

Fair enough, but I think if we need to know what pleases God then we need to study what the scriptures have to say about it. In Hebrews chapter 11 we can see quite a long list of people that pleased God. Notice that not one of these people were commended for their ability to keep the 10 commandments, the sabbath, or in fact any part of the Mosiac law. Many of them clearly broke the Mosiac law and others had no idea what the Mosaic law even was, and yet they were commended for "obeying God". That's worth thinking about.

Now obviously, God is not pleased by immorality, and that God forbid, is not what I am saying. But we cannot escape the fact that legalism, whether we consider it to be a "salvation issue" or just something we are using to justify our theology, does not produce the fruit that God desires. The fruit God desires is the fruit of the Spirit:

"love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.Against such things there is no law." (Gal 5:22,23)

Notice that it doesn't say "Against keeping the law there is no law".

This is because legalism does not produce good fruit. All it does is incite us to be prideful, which is a bad fruit.

 

[Questor]

Questor, on 29 Jul 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:Questor, on 29 Jul 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:



I also am not a Seventh Day Adventist, and know nothing of their teachings.

I am simply flummoxed that people do not attempt to please G-d by obeying Him, even though it is not a part of our actual salvation or redemption. It is a part of our blessing, both now and for eternity. Yeshua only gets you in the door of the Kingdom...but all the Light in is the City, and there are people weeping and gnashing their teeth outside of the city in the Kingdom to come.

Abba has been perfectly plain about what kind of behavior He wants from His children. Why do you not try to do what G-d wants in regard to the Sabbath when you know G-d will be pleased that you honor His wishes?




Fair enough, but I think if we need to know what pleases God then we need to study what the scriptures have to say about it. In Hebrews chapter 11 we can see quite a long list of people that pleased God. Notice that not one of these people were commended for their ability to keep the 10 commandments, the sabbath, or in fact any part of the Mosiac law. Many of them clearly broke the Mosiac law and others had no idea what the Mosaic law even was, and yet they were commended for "obeying God". That's worth thinking about.

Now obviously, God is not pleased by immorality, and that God forbid, is not what I am saying. But we cannot escape the fact that legalism, whether we consider it to be a "salvation issue" or just something we are using to justify our theology, does not produce the fruit that God desires. The fruit God desires is the fruit of the Spirit:

"love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.Against such things there is no law." (Gal 5:22,23)

Notice that it doesn't say "Against keeping the law there is no law".

This is because legalism does not produce good fruit. All it does is incite us to be prideful, which is a bad fruit.








G-d is pleased by anyone who keeps the covenant they are in, to the best of their ability.

No one has ever kept the laws and commandments of the covenant they were in faultlessly except Yeshua.

That is the reason for Yeshua. He is the only means of redemption for fallen mankind.

Only his righteous keeping of all laws and commandments pertaining to him, and his sacrificial death on the stake can redeem the rest of us faulty creatures, who, not knowing where the end of a commandment nor the beginning of legalism actually is, are unable to keep the commandments of G-d to perfection.

I am not looking for perfection, because G-d is not looking for perfection anymore...not for those of us who are in Yeshua. He has stated through Yeshua, and through His apostles what behavior he wants of a person in regard to His sacred self, and other humans.

We who are attempting to wrap our minds around all that He has said in the entire gestalt of the Old and New Covenant writings are trying to see what He has not demanded of us, yet has demanded of others who are the apple of His eye. Why the Sabbath? Why is it a day that resounds from creation to today?

It is a final step of separation from the rest of the world. G-d's innovation of the Sabbath as a law to keep on pain of death for the Israelites makes it important for those of us who are not Jews, but love G-d.

I look at the simplicity of what G-d has said, and see that He has given to mankind a day of rest, if they will but take it, remember it, and sanctify it.

Even more, He has promised to those that do remember and sanctify the Sabbath the kind of rest He wants us to have on this earth, but a better eternity than anyone would have ordinarily if they will stretch past minimum performances to attempt to please the only One who will be pleased by the keeping of his Sabbath. Certainly, it never pleases other men.

 

[mjrhealth]

This leads me to wonder...is this reluctance to recognize the Lord's Sabbath all about money?

It seems that most people just miss the whole Point.

And God rested from His works, yet the work that He was doing creating the world, our rest is just that, rest from our own works, it has no relevance to your day time Job nor which day or days one chooses to worship God, Some do saturday some sunday some every day, there is no brownie points earned. I am 100% sure that God would love that we gave Him everyday He is certainly worth it. The Sabbath if you read the bible was given to the Israelites as a testimony between them and God it was never at any stage ever given to christians to observe. We rest in Christ just as we follow His commandments to Love. But some just cant comprehend how Love and keep us from doing bad things. they insist that any who dont keep the law will willingly break the law, if that was the case our goverments would be reaping billions in speeding fines and we would all be broke and unable to drive. But they cannot admit to sin because in one side they would have to admit keeping the law is unachievable, Futile" and in the other if the say they dont they will be called liars, so they remain silent except for one minor moment when heaven rejoiced a little humility was shown.

I strive (and fail sometimes) to keep His commandments because I love Him, not because of any shackles, just as I love to do things that my wife asks me to do because I love her.

But Jesus and God will not help any man to keep the ten commandemnts, the law, for if They where to do so, they themselve woukd have to deny Christs works and they will not do that. Can you imagine someone keeping the law to the letter and making it into heaven by their own works and saying to Christ, I dont need you I did it all myself.

Yet they say they cant earn salvation by the law, but say you must keep them or you wont be saved. A bit of a Conundrum.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In all His Love

 

[UppsalaDragby]

We who are attempting to wrap our minds around all that He has said in the entire gestalt of the Old and New Covenant writings are trying to see what He has not demanded of us, yet has demanded of others who are the apple of His eye. Why the Sabbath? Why is it a day that resounds from creation to today?

It is a final step of separation from the rest of the world. G-d's innovation of the Sabbath as a law to keep on pain of death for the Israelites makes it important for those of us who are not Jews, but love G-d.

The observance of a 24-hour sabbath, no matter how much you try to include the Genesis account, was not known, nor required by anyone until it was given to the people at Sinai. The fact that the 7th day was first mentioned in Genesis merely demonstrates God's foreknowledge of what would happen since the creation of the world - that the Israelites would reject the gospel promise of rest, that they would rebell against him, that they then would be given a mere shadow of the true sabbath rest, and that the promise of rest would be handed over to the gentiles.

This is all spoken of in Hebrews chapters 3 and 4, where Paul speaks about the reality behind the sabbath.

Now think about this. To whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest? The people who were given the sabbath commandment? Or the people who were not given the sabbath commandment?

It was the former, which clearly shows that the Mosaic observance of the sabbath 24-hour day could hardly be the promised rest spoken about in Hebrews. A law is clearly not a promise. So we need to understand why God in the Old Covenant handed over a sabbath law, whereas he spoke of a sabbath promise in the New. The sabbath promise is tied up with the gospel - a gospel that was given BEFORE the law was introduced. FAITH in God's promise to enter the land and find "rest" was the gospel at that time, and since the people rebelled against that gospel they also rejected any chance of receiving the promise of rest. What they got instead was the sabbath law - a shadow and not the real thing.

 

[Barrd]

UppsalaDragby, on 29 Jul 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

I also am not a Seventh Day Adventist, and know nothing of their teachings.

I am simply flummoxed that people do not attempt to please G-d by obeying Him, even though it is not a part of our actual salvation or redemption. It is a part of our blessing, both now and for eternity. Yeshua only gets you in the door of the Kingdom...but all the Light in is the City, and there are people weeping and gnashing their teeth outside of the city in the Kingdom to come.

Abba has been perfectly plain about what kind of behavior He wants from His children. Why do you not try to do what G-d wants in regard to the Sabbath when you know G-d will be pleased that you honor His wishes?

If you knew me, you'd know that my family has long known that Grandma's Saturdays are sacred. Saturday at my house is a day given to God, and to one another. Around here there are no chores on Saturday. I look forward every week to my Saturday. Now that my kids are grown, most of them have carried Saturday with them into their own families. It takes a little planning, but it is so worth it to have that one day every week in our busy lives to dedicate to God, and to one another.
Do I worship on Saturday, is that what you are asking?
If that is what you want to know, then the answer is simple. I only worship God on days that end in "y".
IOW, every day is, or ought to be, a day of worship. I try to open every day with prayer, and dedicate that day to the service of my Lord, and I try to make sure that I end each day in prayer. Now, I'm far from being perfect, and I do mess up...a lot more than I like to admit, I'm afraid. But isn't that why I need a Savior in the first place?
But it is my humble opinion that, for a Christian, there should not be "a day of worship". If a person is truly following Jesus, his or her life will be one continuous act of worship.

 

[mjrhealth]

But it is my humble opinion that, for a Christian, there should not be "a day of worship". If a person is truly following Jesus, his or her life will be one continuous act of worship.

Amen

 

[Questor]

I am not talking about law or legalities, and never have. I am talking about what G-d wants, but does not demand, and you are talking about why you don't want to or need to do what G-d appreciates because He did not tell you personally to do it.

I wasn't told either. The Holy Spirit suggested I consider it, no more, because of the promise in Isaiah to those who take hold of the Sabbath and remember it.

Isaiah 56:1-12 (KJV)
1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.


I considered and found the matter to be valuable to me, as is G-d's blessing now. If it is not considered to be valuable to you, that is your choice.

Choices do have consequences however. but that is your business, not mine.

 

[Barrd]

The observance of a 24-hour sabbath, no matter how much you try to include the Genesis account, was not known, nor required by anyone until it was given to the people at Sinai. The fact that the 7th day was first mentioned in Genesis merely demonstrates God's foreknowledge of what would happen since the creation of the world - that the Israelites would reject the gospel promise of rest, that they would rebell against him, that they then would be given a mere shadow of the true sabbath rest, and that the promise of rest would be handed over to the gentiles.

This is all spoken of in Hebrews chapters 3 and 4, where Paul speaks about the reality behind the sabbath.

Now think about this. To whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest? The people who were given the sabbath commandment? Or the people who were not given the sabbath commandment?

It was the former, which clearly shows that the Mosaic observance of the sabbath 24-hour day could hardly be the promised rest spoken about in Hebrews. A law is clearly not a promise. So we need to understand why God in the Old Covenant handed over a sabbath law, whereas he spoke of a sabbath promise in the New. The sabbath promise is tied up with the gospel - a gospel that was given BEFORE the law was introduced. FAITH in God's promise to enter the land and find "rest" was the gospel at that time, and since the people rebelled against that gospel they also rejected any chance of receiving the promise of rest. What they got instead was the sabbath law - a shadow and not the real thing.

When the Jews criticized Jesus for healing on the Sabbath, He told them that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. He could just as easily have said that the Sabbath was made for the Jews, and not the Jews for the Sabbath, but that is not what He said. He said that it was made for man. Now, I don't know about you, but I am a member of the race known as "man"...therefore the Sabbath was made for me.
I think the problem is that you are associating the Sabbath today with the Sabbath of the Old Testament. This is no longer the Sabbath where you get stoned to death if you are caught picking up sticks.
The Lord of the Sabbath (Who is Jesus) has declared that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day.
We live in an era where we are surrounded by labor saving devices. There should be no problem at all in preparing for a day of rest.
I honestly do not see what all the screaming is about.

 

[Barrd]

I am not talking about law or legalities, and never have. I am talking about what G-d wants, but does not demand, and you are talking about why you don't want to or need to do what G-d appreciates because He did not tell you personally to do it.

I wasn't told either. The Holy Spirit suggested I consider it, no more, because of the promise in Isaiah to those who take hold of the Sabbath and remember it.

Isaiah 56:1-12 (KJV)
1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.


I considered and found the matter to be valuable to me, as is G-d's blessing now. If it is not considered to be valuable to you, that is your choice.

Choices do have consequences however. but that is your business, not mine.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, here.
Have I said something that you find offensive?
If so, I apologize.

 

[Barrd]

It seems that most people just miss the whole Point.

And God rested from His works, yet the work that He was doing creating the world, our rest is just that, rest from our own works, it has no relevance to your day time Job nor which day or days one chooses to worship God, Some do saturday some sunday some every day, there is no brownie points earned. I am 100% sure that God would love that we gave Him everyday He is certainly worth it. The Sabbath if you read the bible was given to the Israelites as a testimony between them and God it was never at any stage ever given to christians to observe. We rest in Christ just as we follow His commandments to Love. But some just cant comprehend how Love and keep us from doing bad things. they insist that any who dont keep the law will willingly break the law, if that was the case our goverments would be reaping billions in speeding fines and we would all be broke and unable to drive. But they cannot admit to sin because in one side they would have to admit keeping the law is unachievable, Futile" and in the other if the say they dont they will be called liars, so they remain silent except for one minor moment when heaven rejoiced a little humility was shown.


But Jesus and God will not help any man to keep the ten commandemnts, the law, for if They where to do so, they themselve woukd have to deny Christs works and they will not do that. Can you imagine someone keeping the law to the letter and making it into heaven by their own works and saying to Christ, I dont need you I did it all myself.

Yet they say they cant earn salvation by the law, but say you must keep them or you wont be saved. A bit of a Conundrum.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In all His Love

I look at the world around me, and I wonder why God has put up with us for so long.
Abortion. Here in the U.S. we are murdering more than a million innocent babies a year in the name of "convenience".
Child abuse. Dear Lord, how can we even live with ourselves, knowing the horror that so many little ones are subjected to, every day?
We glorify sex...it is everywhere. Even here, in Alabama where I live, there have been "prostitution rings" in school with girls as young as nine and ten being involved.
Divorce. I don't know who came up with the idea of "no fault divorce", but it has turned marriage into an empty sham. Marriage is supposed to mean "till death do we part"...husband and wife ought to sit down and work through their differences, not go screaming for divorce the minute they don't see eye-to-eye about something. I remember my own grandmother, telling me that love was not about going to bed with a man, but about getting up with him every morning and facing life together. Love, she told me, was when you had learned to see through one another and still enjoy the view.
War. I don't have any words for this one. I remember my Dad, a WWII hero...by accident, he told us. He'd been shot down over Alsace Lorraine, and ran into some POWs. He managed to help them escape, and together they made it safely into France. He had nightmares about it for the rest of his life. "They come back," he'd tell us. He meant, of course, the people he'd killed in his escape from enemy territory. "And sometimes they bring weeping women along, with children at their skirts." He never got over it...he carried that horror to his grave.
All of this, and God still loves us. It is amazing to me that He even tolerates us.
And here we are, arguing over something as silly as whether or not to keep a day of rest.
I don't get it.

 

[Questor]

Questor, on 30 Jul 2015 - 04:43 AM, said:


I am not talking about law or legalities, and never have. I am talking about what G-d wants, but does not demand, and you are talking about why you don't want to or need to do what G-d appreciates because He did not tell you personally to do it.

I wasn't told either. The Holy Spirit suggested I consider it, no more, because of the promise in Isaiah to those who take hold of the Sabbath and remember it.

Isaiah 56:1-12 (KJV)
1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrificesshall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.


I considered and found the matter to be valuable to me, as is G-d's blessing now. If it is not considered to be valuable to you, that is your choice.

Choices do have consequences however. but that is your business, not mine.



The Barrd, on 30 Jul 2015 - 5:12 AM, said:

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, here.
Have I said something that you find offensive?
If so, I apologize.


No need...that was to UppsalaDragby's attention, since it is his point that the Sabbath is legalistic and/or prideful if kept.