Sabbath-Keeping

[ATP]

I believe Martin Luther introduced OSAS concept and John Calvin established it.

It seems that protestants did not go far from their mother church, in fact, they seem to went backward.

Martin Luther, lol. No, don't be silly. These scriptures are from the Word of God. Once we believe we hath eternal life. This is the confidence we have in approaching God 1 John 5:14 NIV.

John 3:14-15 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

 

[Barrd]

Martin Luther, lol. No, don't be silly. These scriptures are from the Word of God. Once we believe we hath eternal life. This is the confidence we have in approaching God 1 John 5:14 NIV.

John 3:14-15 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

Those are all wonderful verses.
However, they do not say that it is impossible to fall, do they?

On the other hand, Peter did seem to think that it is possible to lose that security. Remember the passage from Peter that I have posted for you, oh, two or three times now?
I do wish you would at least read it...it is a VERY important bit of scripture...

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Or, since you prefer the NIV, let's look at it from that version. (Heck, I'm flexible!)

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

Peter seemed to think that we would need to "make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him"... Now why would we need to make that effort if, as you think, there is no possibility that we might not be found spotless, etc?
Peter tells us that it is "our Lord’s patience" that means our salvation...something that we tend to forget.
Peter warns us that distorting the scriptures, as ignorant and unstable people do, will lead to our own destruction.
"Be on your guard," he says. Why? "So that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position." Evidently, then, it is possible to fall from your secure position. Now, how is that possible? Well, by being "carried away by the error" (error...think about that) "of the lawless" (wait, lawless? As in "without law? Brr!) "and fall" (yes, ATP, that word is FALL) "from your secure position."

Now, these verses ARE in your Bible, just as they are in everyone else's. The NIV also says that it is possible for the believer to FALL from your secure position, just like the KJV does, by being carried away with the ERROR of LAWLESS men. Notice, that says "lawless"...as in "without law".
Let me repeat, these verses ARE IN YOUR BIBLE. Thus, you have no excuse.

 

[Phoneman777]

But how can that be, the law isn't what keeps you in Christ, it is grace. It says neither present nor future can separate the elect from the love of God, the love of God that is in Christ Jesus. The Holy Spirit that dwells in you. Unconditional love IS unconditional salvation. It's the same thing. Nonbelievers are actually considered God's enemies that live apart from his love.

So Rom 8:33-39 is not talking about the whole world here or even those who keep the law, rather it speaks of a specific group of people and that is born again believers washed in the blood of Christ. Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins out of LOVE. This is the good news of the Gospel. Rom 8:39 ESV "neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is IN Christ Jesus our Lord."

The word "elect" is eklektos in Greek which means chosen or selected. Typically, 1588 /eklektós ("select, chosen") describes people who choose to follow the Lord, i.e. become God's choice by freely receiving faith (4102 /pístis) from Him. Accordingly, these two terms are directly connected (see Tit 1:1; Lk 18:7,8). What faith are you referring to ATP, and how do we receive it?

Well, if you turn your page to Rom 10:9-10 NIV and Eph 2:8-9 NIV it will tell you. Faith comes through believing John 3:36 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, Romans 10:9-10 NIV, Rom 10:13 NIV. The "elect" are born again believers who have accepted the free gift of salvation by grace through faith......

Matt 24:22 NIV "If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

Matt 24:31 NIV And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Luke 18:7 ESV And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?

John 6:39 NIV And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 13:18 NIV "I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill the scripture: 'He who shares my bread has lifted up his heel against me.'

John 17:9-10 NIV I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.

Rom 8:31-33 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect?

Rom 9:11 NIV Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand:

Rom 11:5-7 NIV So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,

Rom 11:28-29 NIV As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

1 Thess 1:4-5 KJV Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. 5For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

If it wasn't your works that got you saved why would your works keep you saved? Works salvation goes against the Gospel. If you're depending on works to get you into heaven and are not covered by the blood of Jesus then you're in for a big surprise people. God is calling us to trust in Him and also believe in Him and not of yourselves.

TRUST AND BELIEVE in who? IN HIM! But what are we trusting and believing in? What HE did on the cross!! HIS works keep you saved, not ours. It is HIS works that He accomplished on the cross by dying a bloody and horrible death. If He didn't die for all sins then His death is in vain.

John 6:28-29 NIV Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Rom 4:2-6 NIV If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. 3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Rom 9:30-33 NIV What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Rom 11:5-7 NIV So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,

1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Eph 2:8-9 NIV For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

2 Tim 1:9 NIV He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

Titus 3:5 NIV he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Bro, obedience to the law is the evidence that you have Jesus in your heart. Therefore, those who willfully disobey Jesus don't have Him in their heart, and thus do not have eternal life. Jesus is "the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him."

 

[Phoneman777]

Because Jesus said "if you love Me, keep My commandments."
Who are the "elect" but those who love Him? And those who love Him will keep His commandments.
Who are His disciples but those who follow Him? And those who follow Him will be like Him...we will be obedient, even as He was and is obedient.
No, we are not justified by keeping the law, no one said that. But our walk with Him is one of obedience, just as He was also obedient to His Father in Heaven.
We are justified by faith, and not of works, lest anyone should boast. Yeah, we got that.
But faith without works is dead...and dead faith can't save anyone.
Who was in that upper room on the Day of Pentecost, but 120 disciples? People who loved Him, and who followed Him. People brimming over with love...
It really isn't rocket science....

EDIT:
BTW, I use the King James Version...I have loved it since I was a little girl. (That was quite awhile ago...)

The KJV and every non-Catholic Bible in every language from before the turn of the 20th century was based on the Greek MSS that rivaled the corrupted Greek of Rome and those later found in Alexandria. Now, all the new Bible versions are based on those corruptions!

 

[ATP]

On the other hand, Peter did seem to think that it is possible to lose that security. Remember the passage from Peter that I have posted for you, oh, two or three times now?
I do wish you would at least read it...it is a VERY important bit of scripture...

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Peter is not talking about losing salvation, he's talking about steadfastness. It's two different subjects. [SIZE=11pt]The Christians knew that false teachers would come. Therefore, the Christians had to be careful. Otherwise, those wicked people would tempt them away from the truth about Jesus. If the Christians did not guard themselves, they would make their *faith weaker. There are still false teachers today. They try to lead people away from the truth about Jesus.[/SIZE]

 

[ATP]

Bro, obedience to the law is the evidence that you have Jesus in your heart. Therefore, those who willfully disobey Jesus don't have Him in their heart, and thus do not have eternal life. Jesus is "the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him."

Obedience to the law is not evidence you have Jesus in your heart, it just means that person is a religious zealot trying to buy his way into heaven. Belief in who Jesus Christ is, is the evidence. The Gospel I read says all I have to do is believe and I have eternal life. Either you believe or you don't, bro. Are you putting your trust in Jesus or your own works to keep you saved?

 

[Barrd]

Peter is not talking about losing salvation, he's talking about steadfastness. It's two different subjects. [SIZE=11pt]The Christians knew that false teachers would come. Therefore, the Christians had to be careful. Otherwise, those wicked people would tempt them away from the truth about Jesus. If the Christians did not guard themselves, they would make their *faith weaker. There are still false teachers today. They try to lead people away from the truth about Jesus.[/SIZE]

I posted it from the NIV as well, ATP. In your version, it doesn't say "wicked". It says "lawless". And it doesn't say "steadfastness". It says "secure position".
Don't take my word for it, ATP.
Look it up in your own Bible.
Lawless people will twist the scriptures, to their own destruction, causing others to lose their secure position.

Of course, you are right that is our faith, and not our works that save us.
But the Bible doesn't teach that it is okay to disobey the law at all...far from it.
James tells us that living faith...the kind that leads to salvation...is working faith. FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
And dead faith will not save anyone.
It is not enough just to believe if belief does not lead to a changed life...a life of obedience. Devils also believe...and tremble.
Again...it isn't rocket science.

 

[Barrd]

The KJV and every non-Catholic Bible in every language from before the turn of the 20th century was based on the Greek MSS that rivaled the corrupted Greek of Rome and those later found in Alexandria. Now, all the new Bible versions are based on those corruptions!

I did not know that, Phoneman, but it doesn't surprise me at all.
All I do know is that the KJV is the only version that really speaks to me. I have always loved the beautiful language of it...so poetic...so...so...what is the right word? So HOLY.

Thank you, Phoneman, for confirming what I have always known in my heart.

 

[ATP]

I posted it from the NIV as well, ATP. In your version, it doesn't say "wicked". It says "lawless". And it doesn't say "steadfastness". It says "secure position".

It's not referring to your salvation. It's about how strong or weak your faith is. Christians battle tempations every day that has nothing to do with the security of your salvation. All the translations in the world won't help if you don't have good exegesis. When you compare scripture you always wanna ask yourself, "is God contradictory"? Would God say all you need to do is believe and you have eternal life, and then do a 180 and say no if you sin you will lose your salvation"? God is perfect, and contradiction is against God's character.

 

[Barrd]

It's not referring to your salvation. It's about how strong or weak your faith is. Christians battle tempations every day that has nothing to do with the security of your salvation. All the translations in the world won't help if you don't have good exegesis. When you compare scripture you always wanna ask yourself, "is God contradictory"? Would God say all you need to do is believe and you have eternal life, and then do a 180 and say no if you sin you will lose your salvation"? God is perfect, and contradiction is against God's character.

The problem is that you are taking verses out of Paul's epistles, without considering the entire epistle. You are misunderstanding what Paul actually did have to say.
Not to mention that you are completely ignoring what other writers have had to say.
And worst of all, what Jesus Christ Himself had to say.

You are right, as far as you have gone with it...there is no contradiction in the Bible on this issue. The contradiction is in your "exegesis", my friend...as the many verses that I and others have begged you to read in this thread have shown, but you've got your head so set on your "doctrine" that you can't see beyond your own error...

 

[ATP]

And worst of all, what Jesus Christ Himself had to say.

It's actually quite the opposite. I'm going by what the Word of God says. Jesus Christ himself said that when we believe we have eternal life. 1 John 5:14 NIV says we can be confident in knowing we have eternal life, by believing in the name of the Son. Do you believe in His name also? The Word of God also says we have been adopted into an inheritance by the seal of God which makes us heirs of Christ. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children Rom 8:16 NIV, and we are shielded by God's power 1 Peter 1:5 NIV.

John 3:14-15 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

 

[Barrd]

FALSE DOCTRINES are created by taking verses out of the context in the Bible. If you are willing to do that, you can prove almost anything from the Bible. Back in the days of Yahoo chat, I and a few others watched while another lady proved this by showing, from the Bible, that God preferred prostitutes above all people. She called her "doctrine" The Church of the Holy Hooker" and included such Biblical greats as Rahab, Tamar, Esther, Mary Magdalene (who was not, btw, a prostitute, though most people think she was), and the woman taken in adultery. Add to that the fact that most of the people Jesus dealt with were women and that it was women who supported His ministry...toss in some of the ladies Paul commended in Romans...twist those scriptures just a bit...and depend heavily on your target audience to be too lazy to read and study on their own...and hey, presto! You have The Church of the Holy Hooker. It was really quite impressive...

 

[ATP]

FALSE DOCTRINES are created by taking verses out of the context in the Bible. If you are willing to do that, you can prove almost anything from the Bible. Back in the days of Yahoo chat, I and a few others watched while another lady proved this by showing, from the Bible, that God preferred prostitutes above all people. She called her "doctrine" The Church of the Holy Hooker" and included such Biblical greats as Rahab, Tamar, Esther, Mary Magdalene (who was not, btw, a prostitute, though most people think she was), and the woman taken in adultery. Add to that the fact that most of the people Jesus dealt with were women and that it was women who supported His ministry...toss in some of the ladies Paul commended in Romans...twist those scriptures just a bit...and depend heavily on your target audience to be too lazy to read and study on their own...and hey, presto! You have The Church of the Holy Hooker. It was really quite impressive...

You're not listening. The Word of God says we have been adopted into an inheritance by the seal of God which makes us heirs of Christ. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children Rom 8:16 NIV, and we are shielded by God's power 1 Peter 1:5 NIV.

 

[Barrd]

It's not referring to your salvation. It's about how strong or weak your faith is. Christians battle tempations every day that has nothing to do with the security of your salvation. All the translations in the world won't help if you don't have good exegesis. When you compare scripture you always wanna ask yourself, "is God contradictory"? Would God say all you need to do is believe and you have eternal life, and then do a 180 and say no if you sin you will lose your salvation"? God is perfect, and contradiction is against God's character.

ATP, what about this from Paul's epistle to the Romans?

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Or this?

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Again:

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

And here:

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Here's some frightening stuff:

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
...
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Here:

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

There are many, many, many more such verses, ATP. Not to mention the example Paul and the rest of the apostles set by keeping the law...including the Sabbath law...all during their lives, following the example that Christ had set for them.
Jesus obeyed the law all of His life, and taught His disciples to do likewise. He told us that if we love Him we will obey His commands.

See, you have left out so very much of the New Testament in your fever to prove that the law has been "done away"...but as you see (if you bother to look), it has not been. It is still valid, and still a very vital part of every Christian's life.

 

[Barrd]

You're not listening. The Word of God says we have been adopted into an inheritance by the seal of God which makes us heirs of Christ. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children Rom 8:16 NIV, and we are shielded by God's power 1 Peter 1:5 NIV.

I am listening. I am listening to Jesus Christ.
I am listening to the testimony of HIs disciples.
I am listening to the various writers of the NT...
I am listening to the Holy Spirit within me.

All of these tell me that the law is still valid, and still vital....

EDIT:
I am also listening to my poor old body screaming at me that it needs to sleep this night. Too many late hours on the computer at my age are not in the best interests of my health.

Good night, ATP.
You will be in my prayers this night!

 

[ATP]

I am listening. I am listening to Jesus Christ.
I am listening to the testimony of HIs disciples.
I am listening to the various writers of the NT...
I am listening to the Holy Spirit within me.

All of these tell me that the law is still valid, and still vital....

EDIT:
I am also listening to my poor old body screaming at me that it needs to sleep this night. Too many late hours on the computer at my age are not in the best interests of my health.

Good night, ATP.
You will be in my prayers this night!

The NT is not referring to the commandments of men or the law. It is about the injunctions of faith, love, and obedience. John and the other apostles never use "the law" to express the rule of Christian obedience: he uses it as the Mosaic law. The NT works off of Grace Salvation, not works. In the NT Jesus already died and had been resurrected, thus pouring out His Grace and Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

 

[heretoeternity]

1st John..those who say they know him and keep not His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them, and sin is transgression of the law...

 

[mjrhealth]

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

So those who "keep the law" are sleeping with another mans wife " teh Jews where given the law", and they are being unfaithful the to our bride "christ".

In all His Love

 

[Barrd]

The NT is not referring to the commandments of men or the law. It is about the injunctions of faith, love, and obedience. John and the other apostles never use "the law" to express the rule of Christian obedience: he uses it as the Mosaic law. The NT works off of Grace Salvation, not works. In the NT Jesus already died and had been resurrected, thus pouring out His Grace and Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

Let's think about the lives of John and the other apostles.
Do you suppose they made a habit of:
Worshiping other gods?
Making or worshiping idols?
Using God's name in vain?
Breaking the Sabbath?
Disrespecting parents?
Killed anyone?
Committed adultery?
Stole from anyone?
Indulged in gossip, or lied about anyone?
Worried about what other people had that they didn't?

You know, I seriously doubt it.
I'm pretty sure they kept those commandments all of their lives, and taught other people to do the same...just as Jesus had told them to do.
Now, I don't know about you...but the Lord I am following very clearly said "If you love Me, keep my Commandments." I don't do this in order to be justified, or because I'm trying to work my way into heaven...I know that He has gone to prepare a place that where He is I may be also. I do this because I love Him. Simple as that.

 

[Barrd]

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

So those who "keep the law" are sleeping with another mans wife " teh Jews where given the law", and they are being unfaithful the to our bride "christ".

In all His Love

MJ, look at your last line, there.
Sleeping with another man's wife?
Christ, our bride?
Dear, your slip is showing...

You started Romans 7...but you didn't finish it. Let's read on:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Here we see that the commandments define what sin is!
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

And we see that the law is good...
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

The law is spiritual, but we are carnal, sold unto sin:
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Paul delighted in the law:
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

This is why we need to read the ENTIRE Bible...not just pick out snatches of scripture here and there that seem to agree with what we want to believe...and why we must not listen to false ministers who pour oil on our itching ears...
Common sense ought to tell us that the law is still valid, and still vital, and that Christians ought to continue to walk in it.
It isn't rocket science....