Sabbath-Keeping

[Barrd]

Tell ya what, ATP...if you are not going to bother reading anything I post to you, or bother to even try to answer my posts to you, just tell me, and I will not bother you any more.
Fair enough?

 

[Barrd]

You did not answer my question...
Do you even bother to read my posts to you?
I seriously want to know.
Are you interested in a dialogue...or do you intend to continue talking AT me instead ot TO me?

 

[Barrd]

Now we have to depend on our intelligence to keep us saved? I guess I'm out of luck. I'm dumb as a brick.

Oh, I do wish you would not give me an opening like that...I'm much too easily tempted.
But I will not go for the obvious...I actually think your fairly intelligent.

 

[ATP]

Oh, I do wish you would not give me an opening like that...I'm much too easily tempted.
But I will not go for the obvious...I actually think your fairly intelligent.

Your righteousness is but filthy rags to God Barrd. Nothing you do can keep you saved in Christ.

 

[Barrd]

Your righteousness is but filthy rags to God Barrd. Nothing you do can keep you saved in Christ.

See, this is why I wonder if you are even bothering to read what I post.
I just got through saying there was nothing any of us can do to earn salvation....this idea of humbling ourselves, and surrendering ourselves to Christ is a common theme in the things I'm trying to get across to you.
IOW, you are telling me what I've been saying all along....

It seems to me that it is the OSAS crowd who are arrogant, thinking that God came slumming and suffered for them, and they can take advantage of that sacrifice to keep on sinning, as if He were nothing...never even bother to listen to a word He has to say...

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20839-sabbath-keeping/?p=259382

 

[ATP]

I just got through saying there was nothing any of us can do to earn salvation....

So we can't earn our salvation, but if we don't keep His commandments we go to hell? Isn't that what earning salvation is?? :wacko:

 

[Barrd]

So we can't earn our salvation, but if we don't keep His commandments we go to hell? Isn't that what earning salvation is?? :wacko:

No, ATP....love and obedience is not how we get saved...it is the result of having been saved.
How can you be exposed to the overwhelming truth that God loves you so much that He came down from Heaven and suffered for you, and not surrender yourself to that amazing grace? The answer is, you cannot.
See, you do not bother to read my posts to you, obviously. I've spent weeks trying to explain this to you, and this is what you come back to me with...

 

[ATP]

No, ATP....love and obedience is not how we get saved...it is the result of having been saved.
How can you be exposed to the overwhelming truth that God loves you so much that He came down from Heaven and suffered for you, and not surrender yourself to that amazing grace? The answer is, you cannot.
See, you do not bother to read my posts to you, obviously. I've spent weeks trying to explain this to you, and this is what you come back to me with...

I read all your posts Barrd. I'm just trying to make sense of your doctrine. Are you adding hell into your doctrine or not? You had said before if we don't keep His commandments believers will go to hell. Am I wrong? Did I misinterpret?

 

[Barrd]

ATP-
Do I believe that hell is real? Well, I believe that all those not found in the Lamb's book of Life will be tossed into the Lake of Fire, where Death and Hell were also tossed....which is kinda complicated, but that's a whole other discussion.
So, anyway, I'm not adding anything...just stating what the Bible has to say.
But what you want to know is, "Does The Barrd believe that believers who do not keep the Lord's commandments will go to hell?"
I believe that the possibility exists, yes.
I think that if you deliberately sin...if you purposely decide ahead of time that you are going to do something that you know the Lord has forbidden, then how can you say that you are not in open rebellion against Him and against His Word? l believe this because of verses like these from Peter:

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

They had escaped, they had the knowledge of Christ, they knew the way of righteousness and the holy commandment...but they chose to entangle themselves in sin. This is the passage where these folks are compared to a dog returning to his vomit, or a pig to wallowing in the mire.

There are many more such verses, and I've posted many of them. I don't like really long posts, and I doubt most other users like them much either-besides, I'm still not sure you're reading what I post, so, I'll just give you one more:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

ATP, please listen to me for just a few seconds. The Holy Spirit speaks...and says that in the latter times...our times? Perhaps. That some will depart from the faith...dear man, they could not depart from the faith if they had never had any faith to begin with...and that they are giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
Seducing spirits? Like might appear to some poor gullible fool and tell him things contrary to the Bible...or did you miss Mjrhealth's post where he told me about how the Lord had done just this?
Doctrines of devils? Like you can sin all you want, and not lose your salvation....for instance?

Hmmmmm.....


Let me add....this is not "my doctrine". It is Bible truth.

 

[Phoneman777]

It's not rebellion. It's a biblical fact. I've asked you multiple times to show me where God throws believers into the lake of fire. No answer yet.

No, you've not, my brother. You're preaching a half Gospel based on careful Scripture selection. "Gifts and calling are irrevocable" refers to God's offer of them, not to recipients of them.

Is there something in your life that you can't bear to surrender to God that makes you subscribe to OSAS?

 

[Phoneman777]

It's not rebellion. It's a biblical fact. I've asked you multiple times to show me where God throws believers into the lake of fire. No answer yet.

Sure, what about 2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV which speaks of people who "escaped the pollutions of this world", which can only mean they are no longer polluted. What's the only way polluted sinners may be cleansed? YES, BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS. They once overcame the world by the power of Jesus, but are then overcome by the world. They will wind up in the lake of fire for their rebellion.

 

[ATP]

"Does The Barrd believe that believers who do not keep the Lord's commandments will go to hell?"
I believe that the possibility exists, yes.

But you're depending on your own works to keep you saved when Jesus paid the sin debt in full. Is that what you're doing?

No, you've not, my brother. You're preaching a half Gospel based on careful Scripture selection. "Gifts and calling are irrevocable" refers to God's offer of them, not to recipients of them.

Is there something in your life that you can't bear to surrender to God that makes you subscribe to OSAS?

What do you mean by half Gospel? God is either or, right?

 

[ATP]

Sure, what about 2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV which speaks of people who "escaped the pollutions of this world" which can only mean they are no longer polluted, BUT ARE CLEANSED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS. They once overcame the world, but are then overcome by the world. They will wind up in the lake of fire for their rebellion.

2 Peter 2:20-22 NIV - These passages are about false teachers that knew Jesus but still walked away from salvation, similar to Rom 1:18-32 NIV. Even the title of this section is called "False Teachers and Their Destruction".

 

[Phoneman777]

This touched me deeply...there are no words, no words at all, to even begin to tell you how much this post means to me.
I only hope I can live up to your faith in me, Brakelite.
I had to leave for awhile, as I was becoming frustrated and angry...two things that a Christian cannot afford if he or she wants to be an effective witness for our Lord and our God.
I am very sorry to say that I very much suspect that these two are unreachable, because they are under that "strong delusion"...one of the most terrifying passages in all of the Bible, imho:

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This "OSAS" doctrine is such a delusion. Those who love the truth will never be satisfied with taking a handful of verses out of the context of the whole Bible, and basing their eternity on those verses. They will hunger and thirst for the whole truth, and they won't be satisfied until they have wrung every drop from the scriptures that God has preserved for us through time.
Like ATP and Mhealth, I also believe that Jesus Christ will not lose even one of His disciples, but will deliver them all, safe and sound, to that place that He has prepared for them. What we differ on is just who those disciples are.
ATP and Mhealth evidently think that they include anyone who believes in Jesus Christ. All they have to do is make a confession of faith, and, hey, presto...they can commit even the most vile of sins, and, without any remorse, or any intention of repenting, they will receive God's precious gift of eternal life.
But it does not work that way. Christ's disciples are those who love Him and who have surrendered themselves completely to Him. He very plainly says, "if you love Me, keep My commandments"...I can't, for the life of me, see how anyone could possibly think that what He really meant was "if you love Me, go ahead and sin all you want".
This idea that, because He died for our sins, this means that we can go ahead and sin, because, hey...He already PAID for them...well, it just nauseates me. I can only conclude that anyone who could even think such an evil, wicked thing just has never considered what the Grace He offers to us actually cost Him. Dear Lord....that He had to suffer so for me...well it both shames and humbles me. I totally understand the young woman who barged into Simon's house and threw herself at His feet, kissing them and weeping, washing those precious feet with her tears and drying them with her hair. Or the woman who strained to touch just the hem of His garment. Oh, yes...I can definitely understand those ladies...and feign would I join with them, bathing His feet with my own tears, clinging to the hem of His garment...in my heart, I am there.

Anyway, thank you for your love and support, Braklite...and continue to pray for these two, that perhaps one day, the scales will fall from their eyes, and they will be able to see the whole Truth of God.

Welcome back, TB! Missed ya.

 

[ATP]

Yeah, the delusion is definitely growing, lol.

God doesn't break his seal guys..Eph 4:30 NIV.

We are sealed until redemption.

Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

 

[Barrd]

2 Peter 2:20-22 NIV - These passages are about false teachers that knew Jesus but still walked away from salvation, similar to Rom 1:18-32 NIV. Even the title of this section is called "False Teachers and Their Destruction".

You told me the same thing, once before.
And I told you then that Peter didn't include subtitles when he wrote his letter.
What has happened is that you've gotten hold of a "study Bible"...not that there is anything wrong with that, but you MUST realize that things like subtitles and footnotes and such are NOT a part of the original text.
Koine Greek didn't even include punctuation. Now, this is not Peter's letter...it's just an example of what Koine Greek writing would have looked like:

​

 

[Barrd]

Yeah, the delusion is definitely growing, lol.

God doesn't break his seal guys..Eph 4:30 NIV.

We are sealed until redemption.

Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

You know, ATP, Phoneman and I both believe that you are trapped in a very serious error, and we are quite concerned for you.
You don't hear either one of us mocking you, or going "lol" at your expense.
This post is worse than rude...this is cruel.
And yet, you call yourself a Christian man? ATP....where is your love?

 

[Barrd]

Welcome back, TB! Missed ya.

Thanks, Phoneman.
You know, you are a large part of the reason that I came back.
You are a good influence on me.... ^_^

 

[Barrd]

But you're depending on your own works to keep you saved when Jesus paid the sin debt in full. Is that what you're doing?


What do you mean by half Gospel? God is either or, right?

Do you honestly believe that Jesus paid the sin debt in order to give me a license to sin?

Not a bit of it. No, dear man...you...and me, and every other mother's child ever born in this corrupt and evil world, have sold ourselves into sin...we have made ourselves the slaves of sin.
What Jesus did was to "redeem" us.
Suppose your kid, away at college, say, runs up a huge debt. She has no money to pay...she may wind up in jail, even, for check fraud. Of course, you could sit on your butt and let her pay for her foolishness...some parents would do that...but suppose you decide to go and bail her out? You simply go and pay her debt for her, as well as any fines she may have...all but breaks you, but hey...you love her, right?
Now, suppose she goes right back out and starts buying things on credit again???
How would you feel?

Not the greatest analogy, I know....but the best I can do. Do you think you'd go bail her out again? What would you do?

 

[ATP]

You told me the same thing, once before.
And I told you then that Peter didn't include subtitles when he wrote his letter.
What has happened is that you've gotten hold of a "study Bible"...not that there is anything wrong with that, but you MUST realize that things like subtitles and footnotes and such are NOT a part of the original text.
Koine Greek didn't even include punctuation. Now, this is not Peter's letter...it's just an example of what Koine Greek writing would have looked like:

​

2 Pet 2:1 NIV But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

You know, ATP, Phoneman and I both believe that you are trapped in a very serious error, and we are quite concerned for you.
You don't hear either one of us mocking you, or going "lol" at your expense.
This post is worse than rude...this is cruel.
And yet, you call yourself a Christian man? ATP....where is your love?

I'm concerned for you guys too. You both have made it obvious that you do not believe the Word of God.

Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

Wolves are among me.