Sabbath-Keeping

[Barrd]

Okay...your next verse is from Paul's letter to the Romans.
Remember what I said about Paul writing like a Jewish lawyer?

Rom 8:1-2 NIV Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

From the KJV (it's more familiar to me, and it helps keep me grounded)

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

No doubt about it, our good Apostle to the Gentiles is an accomplished Jewish lawyer. Hear how he argues both sides of the issue:

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

There seems to be a requirement here that we "walk after the Spirit" and not "after the flesh"...and there are consequences to "walking after the flesh".

Just a few verses down, we read:

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So much for the notion that a Christian can "go carnal" and still imagine himself to be in God's good grace! You must remain "walking after the Spirit".
.

 

[Barrd]

Okay....where are we?

Rom 8:38-39 ESV For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

From my KJV:

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Oh, how I love this verse! Nothing at all can separate us from the love of God.
But this was always true...wasn't it?
Didn't God love the world back in the Old Testament? Or have we somehow changed Gods somewhere, and I didn't notice?
This love of God isn't a covenant thing...it is eternal. God is love...He always has been, and He always will be. There is no doubt about that at all.

But that doesn't mean that God will not notice if we sin. Did you think that God does not love sinners? Hun, He loves sinners so much, He left Heaven and came to this filthy world to seek and save sinners...sinners like you and me!
Does He love those sinners who do not come to Him for salvation? Well, didn't He love you before you were saved? Does He love unsaved sinners? The answer is so obvious it almost hurts to ask the question...

See, that's the question, here. If you're counting on this verse for eternal security, you'd best change it to universal salvation, because it says NOTHING can separate you from the love of God...not even your refusal to come to Him. Even atheists can't be separated from that love. Do you not see the hypocrisy in applying this verse only to Christians?
So, it seems obvious that this verse, while it is true, does not also mean that you have eternal security.

 

[Barrd]

Your next verse is almost too easy. But here we go:
Eph 2:8-9 NIV For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

And from my KJV:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I actually have to wonder of OSAS believers ever actually read these things in context. Just scroll down to the very next verse:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You are God's workmanship...you were created in Jesus to do good works. Can you argue with this?
God has ordained that you...and me, and everyone else, should walk in good works. Can you argue with Him?

 

[Barrd]

Onward and upward we go....

Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

KJV:
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

So far, so good. All we have to do is to keep on reading:

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

See, that's the way it worked under the Old Covenant...you needed to be sprinkled with the blood and ashes of the sacrifice, in order to be purified.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Under the New Covenant, it's a different kind of purifying...or "purging". If you'll remember, God had promised to write His law in our hearts...
Well, the blood of Christ here promises to purge that heart...your conscience...listen closely...from dead works to serve the living God.
Do you see that you're expected to respond to this purifying? You are now clean enough to serve the living God. Doesn't this call for action on your part?

 

[Barrd]

One more to go...and then I am going to take a break for awhile.
ATP, I do hope I am not wasting my time and my effort here...I expect you to answer each of these posts.
Will you do that?
Or will you admit that you might have been misled?

 

[Barrd]

I'm beginning to feel a bit guilty about taking up all this space...as if I'm trying to monopolize the board, which was not my intention.
But you asked me, ATP, to examine the verses you posted...and that's what I'm doing.
Now, on to the last verse:

1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

My KJV says:

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

And once again...have you read the entire chapter?

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

I can't help it, everytime I read this verse, I have to stop and smile. What a fascinating man Peter must have been! A master writer...a man after my own heart! "Gird up the loins of your mind"...what a very cool way to put it! The writer in me is humbled.

So, with your mind properly girded up...let's continue:

1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Even a little 12 year old girl...I was so naive at that age! As I say, even a little girl understands the phrase "obedient children". These verses ae calling for a response.

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear

Here, Peter says that the Father will judge us according to our work (there are other verses that verify this), and that we should pass the time that we are in this world in fear. Does the phrase "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" wring a bell?

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

Peter says that we are to love one another with a pure heart. Jesus also says that His disciples will be known by their love. Without this holy bond of love, it doesn't matter how many confessions of faith you may make...you ain't gettin' in. No lie...

 

[ATP]

John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

But why is the word "believe" and "eternal life" in the same sentence. What are we believing in?

For example, if you don't add or subtract from scripture, it's not saying "he that believeth on me and keeps my commandments hath eternal life".

Rom 8:1-2 NIV Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Well, let's take a look at this. What does it mean to be in Christ Jesus, and why is there no condemnation?

Rom 8:38-39 ESV For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

From my KJV:

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

But it says neither present nor future can separate us. Is it maybe because Jesus died for our future sins also? What do you think.

Your next verse is almost too easy. But here we go:
Eph 2:8-9 NIV For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

And from my KJV:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I actually have to wonder of OSAS believers ever actually read these things in context. Just scroll down to the very next verse:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You are God's workmanship...you were created in Jesus to do good works. Can you argue with this?
God has ordained that you...and me, and everyone else, should walk in good works. Can you argue with Him?

I agree. We are called to do good works, but without adding or subtracting where in Eph 2:10 does it mention the lake of fire. I see it says, we should walk in them. For example, if you gave a gift to someone, would you knock on their door a week later and tell them they aren't worthy to keep your gift?

Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

But check out the language of this passage. The author is telling us directly that he is speaking about the NT Grace Covenant. In the OT Mosaic Covenant they would sacrifice goats and calves for the cleansing of sins, but when Jesus came along and died on the cross, He shed His blood in replace of goats and calves. It also tells us how long this sacrifice of blood lasts..."once for all time and secured our redemption forever".

He secured our redemption forever Barrd. How? By dying on the cross and taking the sin debt upon himself...Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

One more to go...and then I am going to take a break for awhile.
ATP, I do hope I am not wasting my time and my effort here...I expect you to answer each of these posts.
Will you do that?
Or will you admit that you might have been misled?

Well, let's continue and see what the Word of God says...

I'm beginning to feel a bit guilty about taking up all this space...as if I'm trying to monopolize the board, which was not my intention.
But you asked me, ATP, to examine the verses you posted...and that's what I'm doing.
Now, on to the last verse:

1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

My KJV says:

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

And once again...have you read the entire chapter?

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

I can't help it, everytime I read this verse, I have to stop and smile. What a fascinating man Peter must have been! A master writer...a man after my own heart! "Gird up the loins of your mind"...what a very cool way to put it! The writer in me is humbled.

So, with your mind properly girded up...let's continue:

1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Even a little 12 year old girl...I was so naive at that age! As I say, even a little girl understands the phrase "obedient children". These verses ae calling for a response.

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear

Here, Peter says that the Father will judge us according to our work (there are other verses that verify this), and that we should pass the time that we are in this world in fear. Does the phrase "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" wring a bell?

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

Peter says that we are to love one another with a pure heart. Jesus also says that His disciples will be known by their love. Without this holy bond of love, it doesn't matter how many confessions of faith you may make...you ain't gettin' in. No lie...

I still do not see the lake of fire. This passage also tells us how long we have this inheritance. It says "until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time". What is the last time referring too? The first resurrection.

1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Barrd]

But why is the word "believe" and "eternal life" in the same sentence. What are we believing in?

For example, if you don't add or subtract from scripture, it's not saying "he that believeth on me and keeps my commandments hath eternal life".


Well, let's take a look at this. What does it mean to be in Christ Jesus, and why is there no condemnation?


But it says neither present nor future can separate us. Is it maybe because Jesus died for our future sins also? What do you think.


I agree. We are called to do good works, but without adding or subtracting where in Eph 2:10 does it mention the lake of fire. I see it says, we should walk in them. For example, if you gave a gift to someone, would you knock on their door a week later and tell them they aren't worthy to keep your gift?


But check out the language of this passage. The author is telling us directly that he is speaking about the NT Grace Covenant. In the OT Mosaic Covenant they would sacrifice goats and calves for the cleansing of sins, but when Jesus came along and died on the cross, He shed His blood in replace of goats and calves. It also tells us how long this sacrifice of blood lasts..."once for all time and secured our redemption forever".

He secured our redemption forever Barrd. How? By dying on the cross and taking the sin debt upon himself...Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.


Well, let's continue and see what the Word of God says...


I still do not see the lake of fire. This passage also tells us how long we have this inheritance. It says "until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time". What is the last time referring too? The first resurrection.

1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

I truly expected better than this from you, ATP. Did you even bother to open your Bible?
You put no thought into this at all, ATP.



Maybe I gave you too much credit.....

1. John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Again, you need to read this verse in context. Come back and talk to me when you have an iota of an idea of what is going on here.
This will involve opening you Bible, ATP.

2. Rom 8:1-2 NIV Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Here, at least, you have a bit of an excuse. But again, if you actually read the rest of the chapter, it might help, at least a little.
Have you ever heard of a "carnal Christian", ATP? I have. But only under this "OSAS doctrine....

3. Rom 8:38-39 ESV For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You not only did not open your Bible here...you didn't even read my answer to you.
God has always had this kind of love for His creation. Tell me, why does this verse not apply to Hindus? Or atheists? Or murderers? This verse doesn't guarantee those folks a pass into Heaven...or does it?

4. Eph 2:8-9 NIV For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Gosh, it's just one more verse. Surely you can manage to read one more verse?
If I bought you a really expensive car, and I saw that you were endangering other people's lives with it, yeah...I just might knock on your door and take my car back.

5. Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

Again, you need to read the next verse.
And again...that would involve opening your Bible.

6. 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Well, at least you seem to have read this one. I think.
You don't see the Lake of Fire here?

Maybe you missed this bit:
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear

Here, Peter says that the Father will judge us according to our work (there are other verses that verify this), and that we should pass the time that we are in this world in fear. Does the phrase "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" wring a bell?

Why do you suppose Peter is saying that "the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work"? You didn't answer that. Can you? Or why Peter said sthat we should pass the time here in fear? Fear of what, ATP? Can you answer that?

You may have to open your Bible, ATP.
But I think you're smart enough to figure it out...






.

 

[ATP]

I truly expected better than this from you, ATP. Did you even bother to open your Bible?
You put no thought into this at all, ATP.



Maybe I gave you too much credit.....

1. John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

Again, you need to read this verse in context. Come back and talk to me when you have an iota of an idea of what is going on here.
This will involve opening you Bible, ATP.

2. Rom 8:1-2 NIV Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Here, at least, you have a bit of an excuse. But again, if you actually read the rest of the chapter, it might help, at least a little.
Have you ever heard of a "carnal Christian", ATP? I have. But only under this "OSAS doctrine....

3. Rom 8:38-39 ESV For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You not only did not open your Bible here...you didn't even read my answer to you.
God has always had this kind of love for His creation. Tell me, why does this verse not apply to Hindus? Or atheists? Or murderers? This verse doesn't guarantee those folks a pass into Heaven...or does it?

4. Eph 2:8-9 NIV For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Gosh, it's just one more verse. Surely you can manage to read one more verse?
If I bought you a really expensive car, and I saw that you were endangering other people's lives with it, yeah...I just might knock on your door and take my car back.

5. Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

Again, you need to read the next verse.
And again...that would involve opening your Bible.

6. 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Well, at least you seem to have read this one. I think.
You don't see the Lake of Fire here?

Maybe you missed this bit:
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear

Here, Peter says that the Father will judge us according to our work (there are other verses that verify this), and that we should pass the time that we are in this world in fear. Does the phrase "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" wring a bell?

Why do you suppose Peter is saying that "the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work"? You didn't answer that. Can you? Or why Peter said sthat we should pass the time here in fear? Fear of what, ATP? Can you answer that?

You may have to open your Bible, ATP.
But I think you're smart enough to figure it out...

1. John 6:47 NIV - There are multiple scriptures that say once you believe you have eternal life. What this is saying is that once you believe in the resurrection and accept Jesus as your Savior you have eternal life..John 3:14-16 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, John 4:13-14 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 5:39-43 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:54 NIV, John 10:28-30 NIV, John 17:1-3 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Rom 5:21 NIV, Rom 6:22-23 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 2 Thess 2:16-17 NIV, 1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV, Tit 1:1-3 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 John 1:1-4 NIV, 1 John 5:9-14 NIV, 1 John 5:20 NIV.

2. Rom 8:1-2 NIV - There are also multiple scriptures that say once you are in Christ there is now no condemnation. The reason we are no longer condemned is because we have been forgiven of past, present and future sins Barrd..Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV

3. Rom 8:38-39 ESV - I read all your answers Barrd. This verse applies ONLY to God's elect Rom 8:33 ESV. Who are the elect? Born again believers. Neither present nor future can separate us from God.

4. Eph 2:8-9 - This passage says salvation is a gift, not by works. So if you didn't work to obtain your salvation, why would you think you need to work to keep it? The free gift of salvation wouldn't be free anymore, and the good news of the Gospel wouldn't be considered good anymore if you had to work to keep it....John 6:28-29 NIV Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

5. Heb 9:12 NLT - Barrd, why does this passage mention goats and calves? The OT sacrificed animals for the cleansing of their sins. Notice the word "not"...Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

In the Mosaic Covenant the Jews would sacrifice animals on the alter as a blood covenant for the forgiveness of sins. Moses in his covenant took from the offerings half of the blood and put it in bowls and the other half he sprinkled on the altar. He read to the people the book of the covenant and once again they all responded, "All that the LORD has said we will do" (Ex.24:7). Hearing once more their pledge of obedience to the Lord, Moses sprinkled the people with the blood, saying, ‘"This is the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you according to all these words"’ (Ex.24:8). This was a very solemn moment in their national history, for with this sprinkling of the blood and their promise to be obedient, the covenant was ratified and they were sanctified as the people of God (Heb.9:19,20; Heb.10:29). As His people, they would be governed by Him according to the commandments and statutes that He had given to them.

6. 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV - Fear that we will go to hell if we disobey? No Barrd. Believers no longer fear death or hell. Fear of the Lord and fear of hell are completely different fears....Rom 8:15 ESV, 2 Tim 1:7 ESV, Heb 2:14-15 ESV, 1 John 4:18 ESV. My inheritance will never perish, spoil and fade and is actually kept in heaven for me. What does perish, spoil and fade mean here?

 

[Barrd]

1. John 6:47 NIV - There are multiple scriptures that say once you believe you have eternal life. What this is saying is that once you believe in the resurrection and accept Jesus as your Savior you have eternal life..John 3:14-16 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, John 4:13-14 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 5:39-43 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:54 NIV, John 10:28-30 NIV, John 17:1-3 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Rom 5:21 NIV, Rom 6:22-23 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 2 Thess 2:16-17 NIV, 1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV, Tit 1:1-3 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 John 1:1-4 NIV, 1 John 5:9-14 NIV, 1 John 5:20 NIV.

2. Rom 8:1-2 NIV - There are also multiple scriptures that say once you are in Christ there is now no condemnation. The reason we are no longer condemned is because we have been forgiven of past, present and future sins Barrd..Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV

3. Rom 8:38-39 ESV - I read all your answers Barrd. This verse applies ONLY to God's elect Rom 8:33 ESV. Who are the elect? Born again believers. Neither present nor future can separate us from God.

4. Eph 2:8-9 - This passage says salvation is a gift, not by works. So if you didn't work to obtain your salvation, why would you think you need to work to keep it? The free gift of salvation wouldn't be free anymore, and the good news of the Gospel wouldn't be considered good anymore if you had to work to keep it....John 6:28-29 NIV Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

5. Heb 9:12 NLT - Barrd, why does this passage mention goats and calves? The OT sacrificed animals for the cleansing of their sins. Notice the word "not"...Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

In the Mosaic Covenant the Jews would sacrifice animals on the alter as a blood covenant for the forgiveness of sins. Moses in his covenant took from the offerings half of the blood and put it in bowls and the other half he sprinkled on the altar. He read to the people the book of the covenant and once again they all responded, "All that the LORD has said we will do" (Ex.24:7). Hearing once more their pledge of obedience to the Lord, Moses sprinkled the people with the blood, saying, ‘"This is the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you according to all these words"’ (Ex.24:8). This was a very solemn moment in their national history, for with this sprinkling of the blood and their promise to be obedient, the covenant was ratified and they were sanctified as the people of God (Heb.9:19,20; Heb.10:29). As His people, they would be governed by Him according to the commandments and statutes that He had given to them.

6. 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV - Fear that we will go to hell if we disobey? No Barrd. Believers no longer fear death or hell. Fear of the Lord and fear of hell are completely different fears....Rom 8:15 ESV, 2 Tim 1:7 ESV, Heb 2:14-15 ESV, 1 John 4:18 ESV. My inheritance will never perish, spoil and fade and is actually kept in heaven for me. What does perish, spoil and fade mean here?

That's quite an impressive list of verses.
Somehow I doubt that you searched your Bible and came up with all of those verses in a few hours, all by yourself. Either you have made this list over your ten years of reading the New Testament, which is possible...
Or you are quoting them from some web site or some book or some preacher...which is more likely.

On my side, the only resource I am using...other than E-Sword, which if you haven't heard of it, is a computer Bible program, available for free download. Of course, there is also Bible Gateway for those who would rather not download a program to their computer...but I like my E-Sword...it is available even when I'm not online.

Anyway, I'm not going through this entire list tonight. I intend to retire early and actually get some sleep...I've got a date to go shopping with my daughter tomorrow.

But let me ask you this one question....do you take all of these verses literally? I mean, do they mean exactly what they say, each one of them, word for word?
Before I launch into a study of this magnitude, I will need your answer.

 

[ATP]

But let me ask you this one question....do you take all of these verses literally? I mean, do they mean exactly what they say, each one of them, word for word?
Before I launch into a study of this magnitude, I will need your answer.

Absolutely I take them literally. Are you taking the blood of Jesus literal also? Yes Barrd, they mean exactly what they say. Scripture is 100% God-breathed 2 Tim 3:16-17 NIV.

 

[Barrd]

Absolutely I take them literally. Are you taking the blood of Jesus literal also? Yes Barrd, they mean exactly what they say. Scripture is 100% God-breathed 2 Tim 3:16-17 NIV.

Even this verse?

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[ATP]

Even this verse?

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

When you believe in the resurrection you're accepting what Jesus did for you. Scripture is using figurative language to describe a literal event. The Last Supper is in Luke 22, the bread and the cup.

 

[ATP]

..and I'm sorry if I upset anyone earlier. - Shalom.

 

[Barrd]

Absolutely I take them literally. Are you taking the blood of Jesus literal also? Yes Barrd, they mean exactly what they say. Scripture is 100% God-breathed 2 Tim 3:16-17 NIV.

When you believe in the resurrection you're accepting what Jesus did for you. Scripture is using figurative language to describe a literal event. The Last Supper is in Luke 22, the bread and the cup.

Which is it?

Either it is literal, as each verse means exactly what they say...
Or Scripture sometimes uses figurative language.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[ATP]

Which is it?

Either it is literal, as each verse means exactly what they say...
Or Scripture sometimes uses figurative language.

You can't have it both ways.

Scripture will use figurative language to describe real events. Eating His flesh and drinking His blood is about accepting what Jesus did on the cross for you.

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." That is explicit.

What is implicit is this: "If ye don't love Me, then forget about My commandments."

It should come as no surprise that the idea of OSAS argues that we should forget about God's commandments - because Satan hates God's commandments with a passion, especially the fourth commandment which tells the world Who the author of the Ten Commandments is - the Creator.

 

[Barrd]

Scripture will use figurative language to describe real events. Eating His flesh and drinking His blood is about accepting what Jesus did on the cross for you.

As it happens, I agree with you.
Now, remember this conversation...it could be important later, if I do decide to do this in-depth study for you.

 

[ATP]

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." That is explicit.

What is implicit is this: "If ye don't love Me, then forget about My commandments."

It should come as no surprise that the idea of OSAS argues that we should forget about God's commandments - because Satan hates God's commandments with a passion, especially the fourth commandment which tells the world Who the author of the Ten Commandments is - the Creator.

OSAS doesn't believe that we should forget about God's commandments. Are you trusting in your own works to keep you saved or God's finished work on the cross?

As it happens, I agree with you.
Now, remember this conversation...it could be important later, if I do decide to do this in-depth study for you.

Do you accept what Jesus did for you on the cross?

 

[Barrd]

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." That is explicit.

What is implicit is this: "If ye don't love Me, then forget about My commandments."

It should come as no surprise that the idea of OSAS argues that we should forget about God's commandments - because Satan hates God's commandments with a passion, especially the fourth commandment which tells the world Who the author of the Ten Commandments is - the Creator.

If only we could get them to see that the God of the Old Testament is the exact same God as the God of the New Testament.
And the Creator...is none other than Jesus Christ, Himself.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.