Sabbath-Keeping

[ATP]

Rom 8:33, 35, 38, 39 says neither..

trouble
hardship
persecution
famine
nakedness
danger or sword
death nor life
nor angels
nor rulers
nor things present nor things to come
nor powers
nor height nor depth
nor anything else in all creation

will be able to separate the elect from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 5:5 NIV And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Cor 1:30 NIV It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

 

[Barrd]

I do understand. I understand nonbelievers are the one's denying the deity of Christ. A born again believer will never do that, for God's spirit dwells in them until the day of redemption 1 John 2:27 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV and Jude 1:1 NIV.

John 14:17 NIV the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

John 14:20 NIV On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

John 17:26 NIV I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

Rom 8:11 NIV And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

1 Cor 1:30 NIV It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

1 Cor 3:16 NIV Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?

1 John 2:13-14 NIV I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. 14I write to you, dear children, because you know the Father. I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

1 John 2:27 NIV As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

1 John 3:6 NIV No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 4:15 NIV If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

Jude 1:1 NIV Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:

I think you missed my point.
Again.

What I am saying here is that we must not teach that it is possible to sin without repentance and expect to be saved.
The people you are talking about have already done that. They have come to Christ and put their sin aside. And if any should sin, they have an advocate with the Father. We know that He will forgive those who ask Him.

Those who say that they may sin with impunity, not repenting, not putting their sin away from them...these are not born-again Christians, even though they may claim that title...even though they may believe that they are Christians. They are only fooling themselves.

What you are doing is teaching unrepentant sinners that they need not repent, or put their sin away from them. They may sin all they like, because Christ died for their sin. It almost sounds like they ought not to waste His effort, but rather enjoy their sin, because it's been paid for.

No, ATP. I am not preaching "works salvation" here.

I am preaching repentance.

 

[ATP]

I think you missed my point.
Again.

What I am saying here is that we must not teach that it is possible to sin without repentance and expect to be saved.
The people you are talking about have already done that. They have come to Christ and put their sin aside. And if any should sin, they have an advocate with the Father. We know that He will forgive those who ask Him.

Those who say that they may sin with impunity, not repenting, not putting their sin away from them...these are not born-again Christians, even though they may claim that title...even though they may believe that they are Christians. They are only fooling themselves.

What you are doing is teaching unrepentant sinners that they need not repent, or put their sin away from them. They may sin all they like, because Christ died for their sin. It almost sounds like they ought not to waste His effort, but rather enjoy their sin, because it's been paid for.

No, ATP. I am not preaching "works salvation" here.

I am preaching repentance.

Repentance is not a requirement to keeping your salvation secure. It will make you happier and help you live a happier life, but repentance and security are two different subjects.

 

[Barrd]

If you can sin...and know that you have sinned....and it doesn't bother you, then I'm sorry, but I have to question your salvation.
Someone who can sin, and know that he has sinned, who doesn't feel any remorse or guilt obviously does not have the Holy Spirit within him.

 

[ATP]

If you can sin...and know that you have sinned....and it doesn't bother you, then I'm sorry, but I have to question your salvation.
Someone who can sin, and know that he has sinned, who doesn't feel any remorse or guilt obviously does not have the Holy Spirit within him.

Of course sin bothers me. Of course I feel remorse and guilt, but it doesn't effect my eternal destination. Remorse and guilt are simply convictions in this life time. Your eternal security isn't based on every day feelings, it's based on what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross for you John 19:30 NIV.

 

[Phoneman777]

100% yes.

So, liars and adulterers shall be inside the kingdom?

 

[zeke25]

I'm just a Christian, Zeke. Just a plain old Christian, stumbling along after Him, striving to just touch the hem of His garment...

That's good to hear. Don't get caught up in this sabbath keeping heresy then. God did not command you to keep the sabbath day. Nor is anyone under that commandment any more. When He said "it is finished" at the tree, it was finished. Including any sabbath day keeping requirements. Those that teach otherwise are jealous of your freedom and the grace Christ has bestowed upon His children. No one has been able to show me a single Scripture that requires that I keep the sabbath day - that's because there is none.

Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

Of course sin bothers me. Of course I feel remorse and guilt, but it doesn't effect my eternal destination. Remorse and guilt are simply convictions in this life time. Your eternal security isn't based on every day feelings, it's based on what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross for you John 19:30 NIV.

Brother, listen to this very carefully: "Blessed are they which do His commandments, that they may a right to the Tree of Life and may enter into the gates to the city."

Of all the "smooth sayings" that the Bible speaks of, what could be more smoother a saying than to say that you may continue to crucify the Son of God everyday by your sin and still make it into the kingdom?

 

[Phoneman777]

That's good to hear. Don't get caught up in this sabbath keeping heresy then. God did not command you to keep the sabbath day. Nor is anyone under that commandment any more. When He said "it is finished" at the tree, it was finished. Including any sabbath day keeping requirements. Those that teach otherwise are jealous of your freedom and the grace Christ has bestowed upon His children.

Zeke25

Zeke, if you really believe that Christians are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, then please publicly declare that we may freely break the other nine commandments as freely as you claim we may forget the only commandment which begins with the word "Remember".

 

[zeke25]

Just as a reminder to any who look in. I do not dialogue with phonyman because he says nothing to edify the Body of Christ. He despises the shed Blood of Christ and mocks His sacrifice. It is all documented in this thread. Go look for it if you care to. For those of you who do continue to dialogue with him, it might be more spiritually safe for you to go to a fortune teller. I cannot fathom why anyone would want to associate with a person who hates Christ and mocks His shed Blood. You people that do this make me sick. If you look for the documentation, look for my comments first. It will be easier to find than looking for his comments first.

Zeke25

 

[ATP]

So, liars and adulterers shall be inside the kingdom?

So, the twelve prophets that followed Jesus shall be inside the kingdom? They were sinners too. 1 Cor 6:9-11 NIV Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Brother, listen to this very carefully: "Blessed are they which do His commandments, that they may a right to the Tree of Life and may enter into the gates to the city."

Of all the "smooth sayings" that the Bible speaks of, what could be more smoother a saying than to say that you may continue to crucify the Son of God everyday by your sin and still make it into the kingdom?

But you're thinking of the commandments of men. The NT works off of the commandments of grace. It's a huge flaw in your belief there. We are sealed for life 2 John 1:2 NIV.

John 6:27 NIV Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."

John 17:26 NIV I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

1 Cor 9:2 NIV Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 John 2:27 NIV As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

Rev 9:4 NIV They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

 

[ATP]

Just as a reminder to any who look in. I do not dialogue with phonyman because he says nothing to edify the Body of Christ. He despises the shed Blood of Christ and mocks His sacrifice. It is all documented in this thread. Go look for it if you care to. For those of you who do continue to dialogue with him, it might be more spiritually safe for you to go to a fortune teller. I cannot fathom why anyone would want to associate with a person who hates Christ and mocks His shed Blood. You people that do this make me sick. If you look for the documentation, look for my comments first. It will be easier to find than looking for his comments first.

Zeke25

We are commanded to love and teach grace however. I know, it's hard sometimes.

 

[ATP]

Zeke, if you really believe that Christians are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, then please publicly declare that we may freely break the other nine commandments as freely as you claim we may forget the only commandment which begins with the word "Remember".

The NT is not speaking of the ten commandments. The ten commandments are a part of the Mosaic Covenant. The NT works off of the Grace Covenant. Rom 6:14 NIV.

 

[Barrd]

Of course sin bothers me. Of course I feel remorse and guilt, but it doesn't effect my eternal destination. Remorse and guilt are simply convictions in this life time. Your eternal security isn't based on every day feelings, it's based on what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross for you John 19:30 NIV.

If sin bothers you, then OF COURSE, you will repent.
It isn't rocket science.

 

[ATP]

If sin bothers you, then OF COURSE, you will repent.
It isn't rocket science.

I agree, it's sort of almost impossible to ignore the convictions of the Holy Spirit. But what I'm saying is that repenting and not repenting after you're born again has nothing to do with your eternal security. If Joe Bob a born again believer repented every day for 50 years, and then committed a sin and died that night before repenting he is still going to heaven. Because Joe Bob is covered in the blood of Jesus and trusted in the Lord for His salvation. - ATP

 

[Barrd]

That's good to hear. Don't get caught up in this sabbath keeping heresy then. God did not command you to keep the sabbath day. Nor is anyone under that commandment any more. When He said "it is finished" at the tree, it was finished. Including any sabbath day keeping requirements. Those that teach otherwise are jealous of your freedom and the grace Christ has bestowed upon His children. No one has been able to show me a single Scripture that requires that I keep the sabbath day - that's because there is none.

Zeke25

Are you kidding me?
I raised seven kids...through most of that time, I was a widow, our husband and father having been taken from us by a drunk driver before the baby was out of her diapers.
When he was killed, we had not life insurance.
I had no skills...none. I didn't even have a driver's license...not that it would have done me any good. The car was totaled.
If I wanted to keep my family together, there was nothing for it...I had to roll up my sleeves and go to work.
And, I worked, my friend. I mean, I worked HARD.

Do you think that a day of rest was a burden to me? Quite the opposite...I looked forward to my Saturdays with the kids. It was the highlight of my week. If not for my blessed Sabbaths, I think I would have lost my mind during those years.
Do you not see that a day of rest...a day for the family to spend together, to pray, to read, to relax...is a blessing?
Today I am a grandmother...and a great grandmother...and my family still keeps the Sabbath. My sons in law are thrilled not to have "honey-do" lists for their Saturdays, and my grandkids love not having chores that one day a week...although the teenagers still chafe a bit at having to stay home. Most of them are satisfied that their parents let them have company, however, so it works out.
For us, the Sabbath has been a blessing. I wouldn't give it up for anything! I thank God for it, still to this day.

 

[Barrd]

Just as a reminder to any who look in. I do not dialogue with phonyman because he says nothing to edify the Body of Christ. He despises the shed Blood of Christ and mocks His sacrifice. It is all documented in this thread. Go look for it if you care to. For those of you who do continue to dialogue with him, it might be more spiritually safe for you to go to a fortune teller. I cannot fathom why anyone would want to associate with a person who hates Christ and mocks His shed Blood. You people that do this make me sick. If you look for the documentation, look for my comments first. It will be easier to find than looking for his comments first.

Zeke25

Zeke, that is harsh.
How long will it be before you are saying these things about me, since I also believe that we are to keep the Lord's commandments?

Should a Christian have this sort of attitude toward others?

Where is your love, Zeke?

 

[Barrd]

We are commanded to love and teach grace however. I know, it's hard sometimes.

You know, I've not been around for a very long time...but since I have been here, I've not heard Phoneman say one rude word about you.
He has always treated you with grace, and with kindness.
He doesn't seem to find it "hard sometimes"....

Although my patience has worn a bit thin from time to time, he has been an example to me.

 

[Joyful]

Repentance is not a requirement to keeping your salvation secure. It will make you happier and help you live a happier life, but repentance and security are two different subjects.

You are secured if you are striving to be faithful to Jesus. The way you are preaching is spreading false sense of security. It is a grave sin to lead people astray, friend.

 

[Barrd]

That's good to hear. Don't get caught up in this sabbath keeping heresy then. God did not command you to keep the sabbath day. Nor is anyone under that commandment any more. When He said "it is finished" at the tree, it was finished. Including any sabbath day keeping requirements. Those that teach otherwise are jealous of your freedom and the grace Christ has bestowed upon His children. No one has been able to show me a single Scripture that requires that I keep the sabbath day - that's because there is none.

Zeke25

Jesus says:
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
That's enough for me.

However, it may not be enough for you.

Luk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Now, I don't know about you, but to me, Jesus Christ is very much alive and the very same Jesus Who walked among us.
The Lord, Who is my Lord, says that He is also Lord of the Sabbath. That means something to me.
He says that the Sabbath was made for man...I am a member of the race of men, so the Sabbath was also made for me.
And I am grateful...