"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[JunChosen]

There are those even confessing "Christians?" who has no concept nor knowledge and understanding of what is the meaning of salvation.

Ephesians 1 3:6 reads:
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5) Having predestinated us into the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6) To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he has made us accepted in the beloved.

John 6:44:
"No man can [power] come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up on the the last day."

"And I will raise him up on the last day" is a strange language considering that Jesus told the thief on the cross, "this day thou shalt be with me in Paradise" [heaven]. Until we read 2 Corinthians 5:8. There the spirit go to heaven with Christ but the body go to the grave.

Anther significant passage to remember is Romans 3:10-11 which reads:
10) As it is written, There is none righteous , no, not one:
11) There is none that seeketh after God.

Now, if this principle tell us that there are none that will seek after God, who then can be saved???

The passages above tell us who will be saved.

And those who do not believe in the acronym OSAS should read Romans Chapter 7.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Wynona]

I don't believe in the so called "sinless perfection" doctrine of some Pentecostals, which is not held either by a large proportion of Bible-believing Christians. We rest in Christ's perfection and in His completely satisfactory work at the Cross for time and eternity.

Perhaps you've heard the humorous saying - but with a serious point to it:

"I used to be conceited, but now I'm absolutely perfect".....

A large amount of people believing something does not mean it's right.

What does resting in Christ's perfection mean? How do you define that?

 

[Wynona]

There are those even confessing "Christians?" who has no concept nor knowledge and understanding of what is the meaning of salvation.

Ephesians 1 3:6 reads:
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5) Having predestinated us into the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6) To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he has made us accepted in the beloved.

John 6:44:
"No man can [power] come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up on the the last day."

"And I will raise him up on the last day" is a strange language considering that Jesus told the thief on the cross, "this day thou shalt be with me in Paradise" [heaven]. Until we read 2 Corinthians 5:8. There the spirit go to heaven with Christ but the body go to the grave.

Anther significant passage to remember is Romans 3:10-11 which reads:
10) As it is written, There is none righteous , no, not one:
11) There is none that seeketh after God.

Now, if this principle tell us that there are none that will seek after God, who then can be saved???

The passages above tell us who will be saved.

And those who do not believe in the acronym OSAS should read Romans Chapter 7.

To God Be The Glory

How does Romans 7 display OSAS?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

By the grace of God, no I don't sin everyday. I used to, even as a believer. But God can and will deliver us from sin.

Because He loves us and knows the destruction that sin can bring on our lives.

It's the fact that He loves and would have us be as He is, that makes it possible for our psst sins to be forgiven and for us to walk in the newness of life.

The Bible says we all have sin, yes. But we need not continue in sin. Sin can be a past thing that we overcome through Christ. In Christ we can overcome sin and put it to death.

Also, Im not sure how we got to the straw man of losing your salvation every time a sin occurs.

im starting to get a better picture of those who dont believe in OSAS, theres a pattern. so to make this easier, let me see if i can list these for you.

1. you sin every. Single.day.
2. The reason you need Jesus is because you are indeed a sinner. A single sin will keep you from getting into Heaven. Adam and eve committed 1 sin and look at what happened to mankind. you dont view sin as the terribleness that God views it. Thankfully, once saved, Jesus forgives all sin, past, present, and future.
3. you do fail God constantly. You cant make God any happier by doing good, because Jesus already made God happy with the death, burial, and resurrection.
4. You cannot stop your sinning completely. Once your sanctification begins, you should sin less and less.
5. OSAS is Biblical. False converts are Biblical ( simon the magician). But once saved, you cannot lose your salvation. 1 john 2:19 proves false converts exist. Judas was a false convert.

 

[farouk]

A large amount of people believing something does not mean it's right.

What does resting in Christ's perfection mean? How do you define that?

Hebrews chapters 9 and 10.

 

[Wynona]

im starting to get a better picture of those who dont believe in OSAS, theres a pattern. so to make this easier, let me see if i can list these for you.

1. you sin every. Single.day.
2. The reason you need Jesus is because you are indeed a sinner. A single sin will keep you from getting into Heaven. Adam and eve committed 1 sin and look at what happened to mankind. you dont view sin as the terribleness that God views it. Thankfully, once saved, Jesus forgives all sin, past, present, and future.
3. you do fail God constantly. You cant make God any happier by doing good, because Jesus already made God happy with the death, burial, and resurrection.
4. You cannot stop your sinning completely. Once your sanctification begins, you should sin less and less.
5. OSAS is Biblical. False converts are Biblical ( simon the magician). But once saved, you cannot lose your salvation. 1 john 2:19 proves false converts exist. Judas was a false convert.

I certainly was a sinner.

But in Christ, Im a saint. I don't have to identify with being a sinner anymore.

It is definitely possible to not sin.

Job 1:22
22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

Psalm 1:1
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I certainly was a sinner.

But in Christ, Im a saint. I don't have to identify with being a sinner anymore.

It is definitely possible to not sin.

1 john 1:8 “if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.“

To deny that you sin according to john means you are not saved. Jesus is the truth.

 

[Wynona]

Hebrews chapters 9 and 10.

I'm reading that Christ is the perfect and final sacrifice for sins but not about resting. Did you mean Hebrews 4?

 

[Wynona]

1 john 1:8 “if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.“

To deny that you sin according to john means you are not saved. Jesus is the truth.

Of course I have sinned. I am not Jesus. But I need not continue in that sin.

What does the verse right after 1 John 1:8 say?

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write I unto you, that ye sin not.

If, I sin, I confess. But it's if, not when.

Those verses in context make for a better understanding.

 

[farouk]

I'm reading that Christ is the perfect and final sacrifice for sins but not about resting. Did you mean Hebrews 4?

In other words, the perfect sacrifice of the Lord Jesus is what we rely on.

I'll be frank. I don't expect to be in agreement with our Pentecostal friends about some of their doctrine.

 

[Wynona]

Since were at 1 John, also take in

1 John 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in Him.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

In other words, the perfect sacrifice of the Lord Jesus is what we rely on.

I'll be frank. I don't expect to be in agreement with our Pentecostal friends about some of their doctrine.

im not a pentecostal……..

 

[Wynona]

In other words, the perfect sacrifice of the Lord Jesus is what we rely on.

I'll be frank. I don't expect to be in agreement with our Pentecostal friends about some of their doctrine.

I am a bible believer first and foremost. You mentioned Scripture so Im all ears.

 

[Wynona]

If something is true, who cares about what denomination of the person it belongs to?

If it lines up with the Word, then thats what I go with. I don't agree with every Pentecostal either

 

[farouk]

I am a bible believer first and foremost. You mentioned Scripture so Im all ears.

I'm never going to be perfect in this life. By God's grace I rest in the perfect, finished work of Christ at the Cross; Hebrews chapters 9 and 10; John 19.30.

 

[GEN2REV]

The concern is for the believer who at a later date renounces their faith and turns their back on God, never to return, ...

Yes, choosing the things of the world over the things of God. Pride, vice, man's approval, etc.

It happens every day.

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."
2 Peter 2:20-21

Once Saved, Now Lost.

"Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen(from a position of having been saved), and repent, ... or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place(take back the Holy Spirit), except thou repent."
Revelation 2:5

Once Saved, Now Lost.

"remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

All Christians are sinners they say? Looks like Christians can be lost by living in sin after being saved.

Once Saved, Now Lost.

 

[GEN2REV]

I don't believe in the so called "sinless perfection" doctrine of some Pentecostals, which is not held either by a large proportion of Bible-believing Christians. We rest in Christ's perfection and in His completely satisfactory work at the Cross for time and eternity.

Perhaps you've heard the humorous saying - but with a serious point to it:

"I used to be conceited, but now I'm absolutely perfect".....

Nobody is perfect. BUT God does intend that we strive for it. He says as much.

Matthew 5:48

God intends for us to do our part. Resting in God's perfection is a concept devised to encourage Christians to be lazy and complacent in their walk.

"Jesus has already done it all for us, right? We can just lay back and love each other in our respective sins and don't judge anybody for anything. Least of all those who are doing the most unspeakable things. Love the sinner! Hate that old dirty sin."

But it's the SINNER that God throws into hell ... not the sin. And it's SINNERS, those who have embraced daily habitual sin, that God absolutely HATES.

Psalms 1:1
Psalms 1:5
Psalms 26:9
Amos 9:10
Isaiah 13:9

 

[GEN2REV]

im starting to get a better picture of those who dont believe in OSAS, theres a pattern. so to make this easier, let me see if i can list these for you.

1. you sin every. Single.day.
2. The reason you need Jesus is because you are indeed a sinner. A single sin will keep you from getting into Heaven. Adam and eve committed 1 sin and look at what happened to mankind. you dont view sin as the terribleness that God views it. Thankfully, once saved, Jesus forgives all sin, past, present, and future.
3. you do fail God constantly. You cant make God any happier by doing good, because Jesus already made God happy with the death, burial, and resurrection.
4. You cannot stop your sinning completely. Once your sanctification begins, you should sin less and less.
5. OSAS is Biblical. False converts are Biblical ( simon the magician). But once saved, you cannot lose your salvation. 1 john 2:19 proves false converts exist. Judas was a false convert.

Do you believe you are more holy than the angels, Sinner?

Sincere question.

 

[GEN2REV]

I am a bible believer first and foremost. You mentioned Scripture so Im all ears.

And that's the ONLY Denomination that matters anymore.

 

[farouk]

Nobody is perfect. BUT God does intend that we strive for it. He says as much.

Matthew 5:48

God intends for us to do our part. Resting in God's perfection is a concept devised to encourage Christians to be lazy and complacent in their walk.

"Jesus has already done it all for us, right? We can just lay back and love each other in our respective sins and don't judge anybody for anything. Least of all those who are doing the most unspeakable things. Love the sinner! Hate that old dirty sin."

But it's the SINNER that God throws into hell ... not the sin. And it's SINNERS, those who have embraced daily habitual sin, that God absolutely HATES.

Psalms 1:1
Psalms 1:5
Psalms 26:9
Amos 9:10
Isaiah 13:9

For reasons already stated from Scripture, I totally disagree with the "sinless perfection" doctrine.