"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

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GEN2REV

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1 john 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

what is the truth? Jesus. If you say you dont sin, then you make a liar out of God. That is proof that you arent saved. Theres another wackydoodle running around here by the name of robert derrick who also believes he never sins. If you think you dont sin, you arent saved. John couldnt make it any simpler.
That is called perversion of scripture and you are revealing yourself to be an expert.

There's not a translation that exists that makes that verse say what you say it does.

Nobody is without sin. We're born into it.

That verse doesn't say a single word about "sinning." It very clearly states that it is self-deception to state that one is "without sin."

It says not a word about whether somebody continues to sin, or whether somebody "sins after being saved" or anything of the sort.

YOU claimed that John says "If we do not sin (on a regular basis) that we are not saved."

That is absolute poppy-cock hogwash and your credibility is fading by the post so ... keep it up. You are your own worst enemy - I needn't lift a finger.
 

GEN2REV

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Cooper said:
read Psalm 51 with particular reference to verse 7 and tell me what you think.
Verse 13 of that Psalm proves that 'sinners' are the un-converted!!
Psalms 51:13

Nice find!
 

Lifelong_sinner

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That is called perversion of scripture and you are revealing yourself to be an expert.

YOU claimed that John says "If we do not sin (on a regular basis) that we are not saved."

wrong again. I never said that. I said john says that if we say we dont sin, that we are liars and not saved. You are the one who is saying you dont sin. If you think you can go a day without sinning, you’re deluded. English i assume is not your primary language so i cut you some slack.
 
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GEN2REV

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wrong again. I never said that. I said john says that if we say we dont sin, that we are liars and not saved. You are the one who is saying you dont sin. If you think you can go a day without sinning, you’re deluded. English i assume is not your primary language so i cut you some slack.
Nice job going back and changing that. That's not at all what you said.

And it's the 'not saved' part that you keep stuffing in there. The verse says nothing of the sort.

1 John 1:8
 

Lifelong_sinner

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Nice job going back and changing that. That's not at all what you said.

And it's the 'not saved' part that you keep stuffing in there. The verse says nothing of the sort.

1 John 1:8

it does actually. If the truth is not in you, that means you arent saved. 1 john is full of tests to see if you really are saved. Not my fault you cant understand scripture.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Belief.....IS NOT SALVATION.

It most certainly is!

“Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” (Acts 16:30-31)

Notice that Paul did not use any qualifiers on “believe” like most of you do around here.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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It most certainly is!

“Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” (Acts 16:30-31)

Notice that Paul did not use any qualifiers on “believe” like most of you do around here.

belief alone wont cut it. James tells us that even the demons believe, and tremble. You must be regenerated.
 

GEN2REV

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it does actually. If the truth is not in you, that means you arent saved. 1 john is full of tests to see if you really are saved. Not my fault you cant understand scripture.
You have a habit of completely fabricating doctrine right out of thin air.

Scripture to support your claim, please?

Paul said he hadn't attained salvation yet, but I'm pretty sure truth was overflowing in him.
Acts 21:24
 

GEN2REV

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[GEN2REV said]
John chapter 15 discredits this entire thread, and has demolished OSAS for a long, long time.

Christ speaking: "Every branch IN ME (those who are IN CHRIST) that beareth not fruit He taketh away: ... If a man abide not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

John 15:2
John 15:6

Case completely and utterly closed. END QUOTE... again.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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You have a habit of completely fabricating doctrine right out of thin air.

Scripture to support your claim, please?

Paul said he hadn't attained salvation yet, but I'm pretty sure truth was overflowing in him.
Acts 21:24

you’ve never read 1 john, have you?
 

Cooper

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Sorry for you your friend Calvin died.
This is a fine example of how cults turn the truth into a lie. Jesus is my friend and Saviour, NOT Calvin.

People, please be aware of the deceiver on Christian forums, where he and his minions are particularly active. This should serve as an insight into the workings of the OSAS cult. Other cults do likewise. We need to be aware, and preferably not have to defend ourselves from his erroneous quotations. Jesus suffered similar attacks.
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Lifelong_sinner

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This is a fine example of how cults turn the truth into a lie. Jesus is my friend and Saviour, NOT Calvin.

People, please be aware of the deceiver on Christian forums, where he and his minions are particularly active. This should serve as an insight into the workings of the OSAS cult. Other cults do likewise. We need to be aware, and preferably not have to defend ourselves from his erroneous quotations. Jesus suffered similar attacks.
.

wow!!! So who is the deceiver on the forums specifically??
 

Lifelong_sinner

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What IS the plain teaching of Jesus?
If it's so plain why don't we agree on doctrine?

i think this is where we are supposed to begin. When i was really young, i used to question this all the time. How can there be so many different beliefs when we all use the same Bible. Its a good question, and i think too often we blindly follow something due to “we grew up with this.”
 

Taken

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It most certainly is!

“Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” (Acts 16:30-31)

Notice that Paul did not use any qualifiers on “believe” like most of you do around here.

Notice Belief AND Saved.

Belief is one thing.
Saved is another thing.

Two different things.
 
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Taken

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This is a fine example of how cults turn the truth into a lie. Jesus is my friend and Saviour, NOT Calvin.

People, please be aware of the deceiver on Christian forums, where he and his minions are particularly active. This should serve as an insight into the workings of the OSAS cult. Other cults do likewise. We need to be aware, and preferably not have to defend ourselves from his erroneous quotations. Jesus suffered similar attacks.
.

Yes people beware...
I know nothing about some person named Calvin....

I do know about Gods Offer of His Gift Salvation and His Promise to mankind of How and When to receive His Gift of Salvation.

I do know How, When and Why I have received Gods Offering of His Gift of Salvation and Trust God is Faithful having Kept His Promise in Giving to me His irrevocable Gift of Salvation.

No clue WHY some guy named @Cooper is warning others about deceivers, WHEN @Cooper is accusing me of following some guy named Calvin.
WHEN @Cooper is with intent of disparaging calling people cultist WHO Trust having received Gods irrevocable Gift of Salvation.

Yes people beware...
False accusations are deceiving.
Attempting to draw people AWAY from Trusting Gods irrevocable Gift of Salvation is deceiving.
Using False accusations as a basis for disagreement is Deceiving.

@Cooper instead of making unfounded accusations, How about you PROVE with Scripture that Once God has Given His Gift of Salvation to a man He Takes Back His Gift?

New International Version
for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

New Living Translation
For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn.

English Standard Version
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Berean Study Bible
For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

Berean Literal Bible
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

King James Bible
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

New King James Version
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

New American Standard Bible
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

NASB 1995
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

NASB 1977
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


Your turn @Cooper, prove Scripture wrong!
 

Cooper

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Yes people beware...
I know nothing about some person named Calvin....

I do know about Gods Offer of His Gift Salvation and His Promise to mankind of How and When to receive His Gift of Salvation.

I do know How, When and Why I have received Gods Offering of His Gift of Salvation and Trust God is Faithful having Kept His Promise in Giving to me His irrevocable Gift of Salvation.

No clue WHY some guy named @Cooper is warning others about deceivers, WHEN @Cooper is accusing me of following some guy named Calvin.
WHEN @Cooper is with intent of disparaging calling people cultist WHO Trust having received Gods irrevocable Gift of Salvation.

Yes people beware...
False accusations are deceiving.
Attempting to draw people AWAY from Trusting Gods irrevocable Gift of Salvation is deceiving.
Using False accusations as a basis for disagreement is Deceiving.

@Cooper instead of making unfounded accusations, How about you PROVE with Scripture that Once God has Given His Gift of Salvation to a man He Takes Back His Gift?

New International Version
for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

New Living Translation
For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn.

English Standard Version
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Berean Study Bible
For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

Berean Literal Bible
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

King James Bible
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

New King James Version
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

New American Standard Bible
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

NASB 1995
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

NASB 1977
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


Your turn @Cooper, prove Scripture wrong!


God is unchanging and God’s gifts are irrevocable. That is correct, but they were temporally removed from Israel when the nation spurned the Messiah and the gospel of salvation. Consequently, God turned to the Gentiles and grafted them onto the olive tree instead. (Romans 11:18) A somewhat similar sequence of events will occur in the future when Israel turns to the Messiah in the Second Advent of the Lord Jesus Christ, and God’s irrevocable gifts will still be there for those who follow The Messiah.

In the meantime, DO NOT turn away from the Lord Jesus Christ, provided you have accepted Him as your Lord and Saviour or, like the Nation of Israel, the same fate will befall the backslider personally.

The Backsliders Fate
(2Pe 2:20-21) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

(Gal 4:9) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

(Eze 3:20-21) Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

(Ezekiel 18:24) But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Heb_4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Heb_6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

1Co_10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Jas_5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
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mailmandan

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[GEN2REV said]
John chapter 15 discredits this entire thread, and has demolished OSAS for a long, long time.

Christ speaking: "Every branch IN ME (those who are IN CHRIST) that beareth not fruit He taketh away: ... If a man abide not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

John 15:2
John 15:6

Case completely and utterly closed. END QUOTE... again.
In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot). In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self attached, Christ neither saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self attached fruitless branches are cut off.

In me (εν εμο). Two kinds of connexion with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). The fruitless (not bearing fruit, μη φερον καρπον) the vine-dresser "takes away" (αιρε) or prunes away. Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas.

John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org