"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Cooper]

"But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared."

"Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

Calvin being one of the tares, appearing 600 years after the author of our salvation.
.

 

[Taken]

You highlight the whole verse...

(2Pe 2:20) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

.

Having KNOWLEDGE, is not HAVING SALVATION!

(2Pe 2:21) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

KNOWING the way of righteousness, KNOWING a commandment,
is not HAVING SALVATION.

(2Pe 3:17) Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

KNOWING what the Lord Teaches
and
DOING what the Lord Teaches

ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

 

[Cooper]

You highlight the whole verse...

.

Having KNOWLEDGE, is not HAVING SALVATION!



KNOWING the way of righteousness, KNOWING a commandment,
is not HAVING SALVATION.




KNOWING what the Lord Teaches
and
DOING what the Lord Teaches

ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

They were all saved and then they lost it.
.

 

[Taken]

Preposterous!

Read carefully:

“Well; because of unbelief they[/U} were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.” (Romans 11:20-23)

This scripture speaks plainly of the faith of the believer contrasted by the unbelief of the Jews. This same believer is warned of being cut off like the unbelievers.

What is he being cut off from?

Salvation!

There’s is no other thing that belief is tied into other than salvation in the entirety of the holy scriptures.

Belief.....IS NOT SALVATION.
Belief.....CAN LEAD TO RECEIVING SALVATION.
BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF.... THEY WERE CUT OFF ...
BECAUSE OF BELIEF....THOU REMAINED IN FAITH...

“THEY” WERE CUT OFF FROM “RECEIVING” SALVATION.

 

[Cooper]

Belief.....IS NOT SALVATION.
Belief.....CAN LEAD TO RECEIVING SALVATION.
BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF.... THEY WERE CUT OFF ...
BECAUSE OF BELIEF....THOU REMAINED IN FAITH...
“THEY” WERE CUT OFF FROM “RECEIVING” SALVATION.

They sure were cut off from that to which they were previously joined.
.

 

[michaelvpardo]

You need scriptures to learn what being “saved” means.

You are “saved” only if you continue in the faith grounded settled and not moved away.

“And you… hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel” (Colossians 1:21-23)

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Philippians 2:12-13

Do you believe that it is God who works in His born again children to will and to do for His good pleasure?
Can God fail?
How big is your God?

The repeated admonition of the New Testament is to be sure of your own election, to be sure that you are "in Christ ", and even the prophet Jeremiah warned of self deception:
“The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?
I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind,
Even to give every man according to his ways,
According to the fruit of his doings. Jeremiah 17:9-10

Men can be mistaken about their relationship with God, trusting in their works or in their own understanding, but there is no passage that says that the elect can loose their salvation, just misunderstood, misapplied and mishandled verses.

There is a danger in preaching "once saved always saved", but that danger is to non-believers who've been told that reciting a prayer, being baptized, eating a bland wafer, or any work that we can do will save you.

Did you know that "fire" in the scriptures, although a destructive force, is also one of the only two things mentioned in scripture for the purification of the world?

The New Testament teaches us that the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin, not some sin, but speaks to our relationship and fellowship with God and can only be applied to those who know Him, but our purification is through fiery trials when our faith falls short of our actions.
12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 1 Peter 4:12-13

Why does the Apostle use this language if "fire" isn't purifying? What does fire burn? Does fire burn spirit?

If you read the balance of Jeremiah chapter 17, it does speak to those who walk away from God:
O Lord, the hope of Israel,
All who forsake You shall be ashamed.

“Those who depart from Me
Shall be written in the earth,
Because they have forsaken the Lord,
The fountain of living waters.” Jeremiah 17:13
What do these verses mean?

Shame is a pretty clearly defined emotion and could be felt by those separated from God, but what does it mean to be " written in the earth?"
Is the earth Hell?

Why did Jesus write in the dirt when His enemies brought an adulteress to Him to test Him about the judgment determined by the law of Moses?
I'm not going to tell you what to believe, except the gospel (believe and be saved.)

The Apostle wrote:
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:8-10
Do you believe that these verses are the word of God?
How do you justify adding to His word?
Is God confused, the Apostle, or you?

For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. 1 Timothy 4:10
What does this verse even mean? God saves all men, just so that He can cast those who don't hear Him or believe Him into eternal destruction?

I believe in a just God, a righteous God, a faithful God, a merciful God, a gracious God, but a capricious god? Or a lying god, one that breaks his word, or is powerless to keep it? Such a god isn't God at all, but a fiction of the evil minds of men.
You sit and speak against your brother;
You slander your own mother’s son.
21 These things you have done, and I kept silent;
You thought that I was altogether like you;
But I will rebuke you,
And set them in order before your eyes. Psalm 50:20-21

The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints isn't that you will be saved if you persevere, but that you will persevere if you are saved. The scripture isn't given to provoke doubt in God, but faith. If you doubt His word you are double-minded, but that's where most of us start out, doubting and powerless.
You have to enter the kingdom with faith like that of a child, not with the understanding of a theologian.

Now, we aren't to remain as simple as children, but are called to maturity. If there is a problem in the church, its a slothfulness to do God's will, an unwillingness to believe all that Jesus said, not the possibility of loosing that which we could never attain on our own.

26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, “Who then can be saved?”

27 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.” Mark 10:26-27
This is the offense of the cross. This is the stumbling block of the self righteous. Do you see it?

15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” Romans 9:15-17
Please tell me, what is it that you disagree with God about?

3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4 always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, 5 for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; Philippians 1:3-6
I suppose that you have to ask yourself exactly whose confidence Paul's was in. Was it Paul himself, the saints, or God?

These verses express the essence of faith, trust in God.
So, who are you trusting, yourself or God? And if your confidence is truly in God, why not in yourself? And if you are unable to trust in yourself and must rely on His mercy and His grace, why do you then place a greater burden on others?

 

[Taken]

They were all saved and then they lost it.
.

Words of a man.
Not Words of Jesus.
Not Words in Scripture.

BTW how many times have YOU TRIED to become SAVED?

 

[Taken]

They sure were cut off from that to which they were previously joined.
.

JOINED in BELIEF....
clearing revealing; Some stopped believing, Some didn’t.

How many times have you believed and stopped believing?

 

[GEN2REV]

Paul and I don't believe the full gift of Salvation can be received/achieved before we take our last breath.

Paul speaking:
"Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of (salvation)."
Philippians 3:12

Was not Paul very much a born-again believer, and teacher, of Jesus Christ when he spoke these words?

Where is his conviction of OSAS? What was it he was so passionate about attaining?

 

[Cooper]

Words of a man.
Not Words of Jesus.
Not Words in Scripture.

BTW how many times have YOU TRIED to become SAVED?

Israel were cut off from God, and so are all those who follow a different teacher, in your case Calvin. I follow the master, the creator of heaven and earth and not a false lately cum teacher.
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[Lifelong_sinner]

Ok, we get it. Your name is Lifelong Sinner; your main agenda on Christian Forums is to delude every Christian into believing they are nothing but sinners and should continue to sin freely because God will/has forgive(n) them for all the sin they will ever commit.

Got it.

It's pointless to ask your opinion, you've made your position clear. So, I'll ask all those reading:


Does it make more sense that God, in the judgment, would:

1. allow those who sinned freely all their lives, without remorse, into the holy of holies, to live along side Him and the holy angels.

or

2. that He would allow those who made an effort to overcome sin (overcomers?), to dedicate themselves and their lives to following the ways of Jesus and obey God's (Jesus') Commandments, which were given in the most dramatic fashion in all of recorded history, to live with Him in a heavenly realm of sinlessness?

You decide.

nope, you got it all wrong. You armies are all the same. Noone is saying to keep on sinning freely. Yes, every single person is a sinner. Every. Single. Person. Can we ever stop sinning? Not in this life, and through sanctification, we do get better. But only the truly saved can get better thanks to the Holy Spirit.
But let me make this easier yet to understand.
1. You WILL sin at some point today.
2. You will continue to sin everyday after today.
3. You cant stop sinning.
4. Yes, it should bother you.
5. This knowledge should bring about conviction, and then a seeking of God.
6. Clearly i am not talking about calvinism enough on here due to the fact that i have to keep explaining it to you people.
7. You should expect more calvinism from me.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Israel were cut off from God, and so are all those who follow a different teacher, in your case Calvin. I follow the master, the creator of heaven and earth and not a false lately cum teacher.
.

calvin followed God. Calvin’s words were from the Bible. Everything calvin said, he merely repeated what God and the apostles said.

 

[GEN2REV]

1. You WILL sin at some point today.

Not intentionally.

2. You will continue to sin everyday after today.

Not necessarily.

3. You cant stop sinning.

Not without the Holy Spirit.

4. Yes, it should bother you.

It bothers me enough to strive to overcome sin.

5. This knowledge should bring about conviction, and then a seeking of God.

I am always convicted inside when I offend(KJV) the Holy Spirit. James 3:2 That's how the Spirit teaches and guides me. The Holy Spirit IS God. No more need to seek.

6. Clearly i am not talking about calvinism enough on here due to the fact that i have to keep explaining it to you people.

N/A

7. You should expect more calvinism from me.

N/A - I don't care about Calvinism or any of the other man-made, traditional, Seminary-star, concepts that are discussed mostly among those who have been brainwashed and faith-extinguished by Theology Universities' debates which function purely to distract from the more important Biblical concepts. Calvinism is not a concept that God felt important enough to address in His Word. It's worthless to me.

 

[michaelvpardo]

And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, (the backslider) is fit for the kingdom of God. (Luke 9:62 KJV)
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This is true, but Jesus also taught that salvation is the work of God and impossible for men. The Lord doesn't want unbelievers in pulpits, or preaching the gospel, or teaching His word, or ministering to His saints. They aren't fit for it.
I believe in the millenial kingdom, but Jesus taught that the kingdom is already here in the hearts of believers when they receive Him or those whom He has sent.
It really is all about recieving Him and having His word abiding within you.
17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:1-3
You do know that "the backslider" isn't in Luke 9:62 at all, but is an addition to the word of God, right?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

1. Good.
2. Guaranteed!!
3. Even after you’re saved, you WILL continue to sin. Guaranteed.
4. Striving is good.
5. You should never stop seeking God, getting to know Him.
6. Odd.
7. Calvin didnt create anything with his 5 points. He merely took what the 27 books of the NT said, and made an easy to understand map of salvation. And those 5 points were the basis for our Westminster Confessions. Anyone who chooses to disregard them, are disregarding how salvation works. That can lead to false converts.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: "Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - It's FOREVER!
FOREVER And Ever, Amen!! FREE In The LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[Cooper]

This is true, but Jesus also taught that salvation is the work of God and impossible for men. The Lord doesn't want unbelievers in pulpits, or preaching the gospel, or teaching His word, or ministering to His saints. They aren't fit for it.
I believe in the millenial kingdom, but Jesus taught that the kingdom is already here in the hearts of believers when they receive Him or those whom He has sent.
It really is all about recieving Him and having His word abiding within you.
17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:1-3
You do know that "the backslider" isn't in Luke 9:62 at all, but is an addition to the word of God, right?

Yes, I know that, I inserted it for clarification. Well spotted.
.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Westminster Confessions chpt 10.

All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by his almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.

Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet they never truly come unto Christ, and therefore cannot be saved.”

Justification chpt 11
“Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth: not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness, by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God.”

God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect, and Christ did, in the fullness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification: nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them.

the Westminster confessions prove that Calvinism is the most correct doctrine, and along with the longer and short catechisms, remove all doubt that other doctrines are false.

The Westminster confession doesn't prove doctrine, but scripture does tend to prove the Westminster confession. I've been labeled a "Calvinist" by some, but my own doctrine is primarily derived from scripture, and prior to believing the scriptures, the only Calvin I knew about was a troublesome cartoon kid with an imaginary friend named Hobbes.
People use these labels to identify with one theologian or another, and to label others as those they can safely ignore but Paul calls such thinking carnal minded.

3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?
1 Corinthians 3:1-4

Everyone wants to understand and know "sound doctrine " but doctrine doesn't save, Jesus does. Like mindedness is a unifying principle, but the only true like mindedness we can have is the mind of Christ, and the only unity that of His Spirit.
If our arguments do not edify, they're just so much hot air.
If you "contend for the faith" you're contending for yourself, because the Holy Spirit teaches us first in order to reach others. The Pastor preaches to himself first as he is responsible for his congregation and the word he receives applies first to him and then also to them. Our knowledge is a responsibility placed upon us and a gift that we are stewards of.

 

[Cooper]

1. Good.
2. Guaranteed!!
3. Even after you’re saved, you WILL continue to sin. Guaranteed.
4. Striving is good.
5. You should never stop seeking God, getting to know Him.
6. Odd.
7. Calvin didnt create anything with his 5 points. He merely took what the 27 books of the NT said, and made an easy to understand map of salvation. And those 5 points were the basis for our Westminster Confessions. Anyone who chooses to disregard them, are disregarding how salvation works. That can lead to false converts.

You mean, the plain teaching of Jesus is hard to understand!
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[Lifelong_sinner]

You mean, the plain teaching of Jesus is hard to understand!
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given that you dont understand it, i would say apparently, yes.