Repeating your error does not make it any more true.
Biblically, apostles are simple those "sent." The twelve were just the beginning...and even one of them was a devil. John 6:70
"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.
- Thread starter ScottA
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Biblically, apostles are simple those "sent." The twelve were just the beginning...and even one of them was a devil. John 6:70
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Its amazing, Jesus spent a whole chapter talking about how one is born again, Yet the only thing he said int he whole chapter was whoever believes.
no mention of water baptism. No mention of one who believes yet is not baptized being condemned.
Yet they see water and magically it means to be baptized.
Can you see God?
No...Peter identified Jesus as being the Christ, to whom He answered and explained that it was by the Father that His church would be built. Wherein, He even made the point of saying "not flesh and blood"--meaning, not Peter.
You misunderstood, just as your fathers have.
If the Master has not yet returned to you--you are in no position to comment.
This is why you are full of questions and conjecture about things you do not understand.
@Eternally Grateful Significant indeed that John 3.16 - with everlasting life in question - does not mention baptism...
the extra verses don’t change anything just refers to the new covenant new creation as spiritual in grace
Born again is still baptism
By water AND the spirit
Ez 36:25
Jn 3:22 River water baptism
The new birth is spiritual by grace but the outward sign required to enter the covenant is physical washing with water
A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.
A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.
maybe but his office was still valid and has successors
Acts 1:17-20
Act 1:26
there is a separation between the priesthood and the laity
example
laity cannot forgive sin Jn 20:23
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.
Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!
(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)
The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29
The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18
The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20
The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20
Christ alone builds the church on Peter and the apostles in their person, jurisdictional authority and office holders
Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!
Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!
Lk 22
All apostles But Jesus prays for Peter alone
Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church
Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!
Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!
It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!
Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter
It’s Christ who does this
Why is the name of peter even mentioned?
Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!
Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22
How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!
Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!
Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!
Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!
Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)
Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.
Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father
Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep
Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!
Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7
ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18
Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22
Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
4 important questions:
1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?
With those who believe certain things need to be done by and within their faith.
My finger would point to Romans 14 I believe… if someone believes it’s nessicary to be baptisms in water it is better for them to believe that than to try to negate what they do not believe is true.
Of course I’ve done this with my views in eschatology with others, but when it comes to individual faith.
If some believes water baptism is nessicary, let them believe it… the scripture says Jesus is the one who was coming whom would baptize in Holy Spirit and fire…
Another thing to mention here to is that the first church bride of Christ was under apostolic leadership of the apostles which was of Christ Jesus… there were certain things that needed correcting here and there also encouragement for the believers in that day was made by Paul in his letters to specifically people in a very specific time in age.
Which eventually would lead to Christians being killed and slaughtered for their faith in Jesus… so the apostles where there to guide and make sure the bride of Christ was pure and blameless before the coming again of Christ for his bride along with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad.
Just something would like to share,
God bless,
Matthew Gallagher
My finger would point to Romans 14 I believe… if someone believes it’s nessicary to be baptisms in water it is better for them to believe that than to try to negate what they do not believe is true.
Of course I’ve done this with my views in eschatology with others, but when it comes to individual faith.
If some believes water baptism is nessicary, let them believe it… the scripture says Jesus is the one who was coming whom would baptize in Holy Spirit and fire…
Another thing to mention here to is that the first church bride of Christ was under apostolic leadership of the apostles which was of Christ Jesus… there were certain things that needed correcting here and there also encouragement for the believers in that day was made by Paul in his letters to specifically people in a very specific time in age.
Which eventually would lead to Christians being killed and slaughtered for their faith in Jesus… so the apostles where there to guide and make sure the bride of Christ was pure and blameless before the coming again of Christ for his bride along with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad.
Just something would like to share,
God bless,
Matthew Gallagher
No...you have added "and" and "again" to "born of water."
You are as confused as Nicodemus was...thinking you need to re-enter the womb.
Only as the scripture clarify is true, and is true of all who are born from above. Just as I said.
Jesus, in asking Peter who men said that He was, presented two "rocks": God and Peter, the Father and flesh and blood, and then stated that it was "not" flesh and blood. That is what is written.
You and your fathers chose the wrong rock...for which there are consequences.
no
the apostles / the people
totally different
apostles have and office
Are a bishop
Have jurisdictional authority from Christ
Have the ministry of reconciliation
Can forgive sin
hierarchical authority or spiritual anarchy
no not birthed again
KJV
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Water and the spirit!
twisting!
KJV
Matt 16:17-19
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
The revelation was not by flesh but from God!
why does Jesus say “thou art Peter”?
Why change his name?
God changed names to indicate a office of ministry
And you ignore all these scriptures and questions
Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!
Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!
Lk 22
All apostles But Jesus prays for Peter alone
Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church
Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!
Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!
It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!
Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter
It’s Christ who does this
Why is the name of peter even mentioned?
Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!
Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22
How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!
Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!
Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!
Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!
Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)
Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.
Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father
Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep
Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!
Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7
ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18
Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22
Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
This is what you have when the Spirit is quenched by flesh and blood...for which there are grave consequences.
You have been warned.
It unfortunate those who have been manipulated by religious sections out there…
sad life
there are people out there who make it difficult to know what the scriptures do say.
they can use scripture to make their own decisions and desires to be like Man.
God is not a man, and the Bible is there to help you increase you faith in having newness of life by the spirit
sad life
there are people out there who make it difficult to know what the scriptures do say.
they can use scripture to make their own decisions and desires to be like Man.
God is not a man, and the Bible is there to help you increase you faith in having newness of life by the spirit
