"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[theefaith]

but your church does not teach baptism of any kind is where a persons sin debt is paid and he is saved forever.

And your church teach sprinking with water. Not even baptism, And not in Christ, once again in water

that is the Christian sacrament of baptism in Christ with grace to was away all sins both original and personal

you’re confusion is about justification and salvation

Faith and baptism accomplish justification
With these effects:
born again Jn 3:5
New creation in Christ 2 cor 5:17
Passed from death to life 2 Tim 1:10
Out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light 1 pet 2:9
All sins washed away acts 22:16
Washed in Christ’s blood 1 pet 1:2
Member of Christ and His church
1 cor 12:13
Put on Christ gal 3:27
Died with Christ rom 6:3
Risen with Christ col 2:12
Sealed by God in the ark of salvation 1 pet 3:20-21
Sealed with the Holy Spirit eph 1:13

 

[theefaith]

Yep, its a covenant

the PENALTY OF SIN IS DEATH,

the GIFT OF GOD IS LIFE

Its a GIFT, its not a reward. its not a wage that can be earned. Jesus paid the cost with HIS DEATH.

ONLY his death and cover your debt.

justification is a gift
Sanctification is where we enter into good works and increase sanctifying grace

 

[theefaith]

Four distinct things!

Don’t confuse them or make them all the same!

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

Salvation:
then when we are faithful to Christ and in his grace at death enter salvation!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

 

[theefaith]

I was afraid this might be your understanding when it is is incorrect. THAT is a neuter demonstrative and must agree with its noun antecedents in gender, number and case. "Grace" is feminine so THAT can't refer to this noun. "Faith" is feminine so THAT can't refer to this noun.

Oz

I’ll take a guess and say your not from this planet?

 

[ScottA]

Four distinct things!

Don’t confuse them or make them all the same!

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

Salvation:
then when we are faithful to Christ and in his grace at death enter salvation!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Regarding all matters pertaining to the salvation afforded to all who are espoused to Christ:

So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. Matthew 19:6
​

PS, Your above Glossary of Terms above is only helpful as separate parts, only if announced as parts of the One salvation we have in Christ. You even confuse yourself and go off on religious tangents as is the case of many over religious who go astray from the basic and elementary principles of Christ, who unfortunately include many of the church fathers throughout history--who have made a complete mess, as it is evident in your own religious jargon for which there are grave consequences.

Stop spamming the thread with your unbiblical jargon. I don't want to have to report you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

justification is a gift
Sanctification is where we enter into good works and increase sanctifying grace

Yep Justification is a gift. Not paid for by works

Sanctification is the act of God growing his child into a mature believer. But the person being sanctified is perfected forever.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

that is the Christian sacrament of baptism in Christ with grace to was away all sins both original and personal

you’re confusion is about justification and salvation

Faith and baptism accomplish justification
With these effects:
born again Jn 3:5
New creation in Christ 2 cor 5:17
Passed from death to life 2 Tim 1:10
Out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light 1 pet 2:9
All sins washed away acts 22:16
Washed in Christ’s blood 1 pet 1:2
Member of Christ and His church
1 cor 12:13
Put on Christ gal 3:27
Died with Christ rom 6:3
Risen with Christ col 2:12
Sealed by God in the ark of salvation 1 pet 3:20-21
Sealed with the Holy Spirit eph 1:13

then salvation and justification is not a gift. It is a reward. (because your church replaces the work of God in Holy Spirit baptism, which occures at the moment of faith. with the physical work and act of baptism, performed by man)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Four distinct things!

Don’t confuse them or make them all the same!

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

Salvation:
then when we are faithful to Christ and in his grace at death enter salvation!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

This is works based salvation at its purest.

Trying to earn what can only be recieved as a gift.

 

[theefaith]

I don't know what a "manichean" even is.

An early heresy dualism god of good and god of evil

You are still looking at the scriptures through the lens of men's teaching, which are of the flesh, and you are not "rightly dividing the word of truth" according to what is of this world and what is of the kingdom of God.

Only the apostles can rightly divide the word

As I said, just as Christ said--and apparently you do not care to understand...the words are spirit, therefore they do not refer to the water found in this world. Those waters leave one thirsty, but “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” John 4:13-14

That refers to grace
And form of the sacrament is the words but the matter is the water

Jn 3:5 water and the spirit

Have you not read of Mary and Martha? "Only one thing is needed."

You are not hearing or seeing the difference, but have chosen the lesser part leading to destruction. I leave you to it.

There is a big difference between apostolic tradition and the “tradition of men!

Apostolic tradition is commanded by Christ and has the authority of Christ and must be believed, the “tradition of men” has no authority!

The apostolic tradition involves the divine revelation of Jesus Christ, with His command to teach all nations! Matt 28:19

It is unlawful to reject the revelation of God!

The apostolic tradition or teaching authority of Christ in His church involves the Holy Spirit! Jn 16:13
And the gifts of the Spirit! Wisdom, knowledge, etc.
The “tradition of men” only has human wisdom!
The apostolic tradition is united to Christ, His mission, power and authority! Jn 15:5 Jn 20:21





Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
Apostolic tradition or teaching authority of Christ in His church!

Are these not men?
Why is apostolic tradition different from the “tradition of men”?

Why is apostolic tradition acceptable and the “tradition of men” is not acceptable?

 

[theefaith]

I have not said "stupid", but the scriptures refer to not seeing the things of the spirit, as "blindness."

It cannot be purely spiritual
Or faith alone
It’s a covenant not a Bible study

 

[theefaith]

You do not speak of or for the kingdom of God, nor do you know it.

God is spirit.

it is the new covenant church
Christ replaced David as king Lk 1:32-33
The church replaced Israel as kingdom Matt 21:43 Matt 16:18-19


Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;


Prophecy of the new covenant church fulfilled in the apostolic union with Christ!

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

 

[theefaith]

It’s only forever when you die Matt 24:13

 

[theefaith]

Yep Justification is a gift. Not paid for by works

Sanctification is the act of God growing his child into a mature believer. But the person being sanctified is perfected forever.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

sanctified washed baptism

 

[theefaith]

Yep Justification is a gift. Not paid for by works

Sanctification is the act of God growing his child into a mature believer. But the person being sanctified is perfected forever.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

you never have answered these questions

Faith alone apart from the sacraments
Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[theefaith]

then salvation and justification is not a gift. It is a reward. (because your church replaces the work of God in Holy Spirit baptism, which occures at the moment of faith. with the physical work and act of baptism, performed by man)

both are required faith and baptism Mk 16:16

 

[theefaith]

This is works based salvation at its purest.

Trying to earn what can only be recieved as a gift.

we already received the gift in justification

now we go on to good works

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


Rev 2: 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Rev 2:23 .....I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

sanctified washed baptism

Performed by God

Its called the washing of regeneration OF (by) The Holy Spirit

Now water baptism.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

you never have answered these questions

Faith alone apart from the sacraments
Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

I have answered them multiple times. Please do not lie and say I have never answered them.

The penalty of sin is death (period)

the gift of God is life. through Christ.

You trying to replace holy spirit baptism with water baptism in those passages does not help. The facts are the fact.

salvation is a gift.. Your trying to earn that gift., in essence making the gift null and void.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

we already received the gift in justification

now we go on to good works

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


Rev 2: 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Rev 2:23 .....I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

if your justified, then your saved, You can rest in Christ.

You have eternal life.

You can show those verses a million times, It will not prove salvation and eternal life is rewarded by works. Period.

 

[ScottA]

Only the apostles can rightly divide the word

No. Paul was speaking to Timothy "a worker":

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
​

When are you going to start admitting and confessing that you are wrong about these many things?