Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[Mick_Alexander]

No, you can't lose your salvation.

I appreciate what you have to say but you need Scripture to back your position.

I outlined what I believe the parable is saying. I believe it is talking about one servant who can either face reward or condemnation when Jesus returns. This clearly speaks of salvation loss.

How do you interpret it?

God bless,
Mick

 

[Mick_Alexander]

Have you considered that John said that those that leave us were never really of us? If they were of us, they would've continued with us?

Yes, I know about that verse but how do you interpret the parable I put in the OP?

 

[Mick_Alexander]

Then Peter questioned the Lord as to who this parable is directed to. (41) To which Christ responded. (42-48).

Amen, but you have made the common error of believing that the parable is speaking to all. You said, "The servants are those on the earth at the return or Second Coming of Christ", but if you read the parable closely you will see that it is talking about a manager (singular) being left in charge... that is, just one servant. When you read on you will find that that manager/servant will either be rewarded or condemned upon Jesus' return.

The servants here have nothing to do with the Church or the Christians.

The parable is in direct response to Peter's question and Jesus is clearly telling Peter that even those, like himself, who are put in charge of the church must remain faithful or else. Jesus didn't say He was going away, will return for the Rapture and then go away again, leaving Peter in charge. The fact is, there won't be any Christians on the earth after the Rapture so how could Jesus be talking about leaving a faithful and wise servant in charge?

You speak of their punishment as 'condemnation'.

Do you believe that being cut to pieces and assigned to be with unbelievers is not condemnation?

 

[Job]

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

 

[Sword]

I believe it is possible for a heaven bound Christian to end up condemned. There are many passages describing this but I believe the parable in Luke 12:42-46 is one of the clearest.

In this parable, the word "manager" is singular, showing that there is only one faithful and wise manager being spoken of. Looking at the verses, we have:

a) V.42 tells us of a faithful and wise manager (obviously a saved man) who is put in charge while the master (Jesus) is away.

b) Vs. 43-44 say that the servant will be rewarded and put in charge of all the master's possessions if the master returns and finds that the servant has remained faithful.

c) Vs. 45-46 then tells us that the same servant will be condemned and assigned a place with the unbelievers (in hell) if the master returns and finds that he is sinning and mistreating the other servants etc.

To say that the servant will be assigned a place with unbelievers makes it obvious that he was a believer initially.

To me, this is one of several parables and passages which clearly show that a Christian can be rewarded or condemned, depending on his actions.

Loss of salvation is a vitally important issue.

What do you think of this parable?

Why did you only mention the scriptures you think means loss of salvation?

 

[Mick_Alexander]

Why did you only mention the scriptures you think means loss of salvation?

Not sure what you mean. If you mean vs.47-48, I believe they are referring to degrees of punishment for the unsaved and, to my way of thinking, have no real bearing on what the parable is teaching.

 

[Stranger]

Amen, but you have made the common error of believing that the parable is speaking to all. You said, "The servants are those on the earth at the return or Second Coming of Christ", but if you read the parable closely you will see that it is talking about a manager (singular) being left in charge... that is, just one servant. When you read on you will find that that manager/servant will either be rewarded or condemned upon Jesus' return.




The parable is in direct response to Peter's question and Jesus is clearly telling Peter that even those, like himself, who are put in charge of the church must remain faithful or else. Jesus didn't say He was going away, will return for the Rapture and then go away again, leaving Peter in charge. The fact is, there won't be any Christians on the earth after the Rapture so how could Jesus be talking about leaving a faithful and wise servant in charge?




Do you believe that being cut to pieces and assigned to be with unbelievers is not condemnation?

I don't know what you mean by saying I have made the error in saying the parable is speaking to all. I have made distinction in the Church and those servants on earth.

The parable is not addressed to just one individual steward. It simply says who that faithful steward is. (Luke 12:42) "...Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household,....?" That all servants are included is seen in (12:37). "Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching:...."

Again, you are using the word 'condemned' here but that is not said in this parable. I am not sure that being cut in sunder means being cut in half. It may well indicate being severed from his position. We use such terminology today don't we? Severance pay? And, if he was cut in half, then how or why would he be beaten with many stripes? (12:47)

Peter's question was in response to the parable. The parable was not the result of Peter's question. (Luke 12:41) "Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even unto all?" And (12:37) in the parable said 'servants' and not stewards. You want to make 'stewards' the leaders only. Which doesn't matter as to the main point of a loss of salvation, whether it is to all servants or to a steward.

That this parable speaks to the Second Coming of Christ is clear from (Matt. 24:42-51). And in (Matt. 24:29-30) you see it occurs after the Tribulation. "Immediately after the tribulation of those days...and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds...." As a result, the believers are told to 'watch' (Matt. 24:42). And thus the parable you give. So it pertains to the Second Coming, not the rapture. Which means the Church is already gone. Which is why in (Luke 12:36) the lord was returning from the wedding.

The believing Israelites and believing Gentiles during the Tribulation will be busy preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and will be expected to be anticipating the Lords return also. The Church is not the only body of believers who are to be faithful stewards.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

These are those who were never believers. They were false teachers. (2 Peter 2:1).

Stranger

 

[Job]

Why did you only mention the scriptures you think means loss of salvation?

This is the best question so far.

 

[Sword]

Not sure what you mean. If you mean vs.47-48, I believe they are referring to degrees of punishment for the unsaved and, to my way of thinking, have no real bearing on what the parable is teaching.

This is what I mean.


John 11:25-26 “Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 10:28-29 “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.”

Romans 8:38-39 “For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Philippians 1:6 “And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.”

John 5:11-13 “And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.”

John 6:37, 39 “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out…And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.”

John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

There are far to many Christians think the have a call to teach. There are far to many jump in feet first to warn others. What I dont understand is this. Why is there zero fear of this verse.

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many teachers, knowing that we shall receive the severer judgment.
Why do you all think you are able to teach on every thing scriptural? 40.000 church who cant agree on all points with ANYONE ELSE. So there are many many who legally are able to teach . They cant all be correct. Then in here we find people who think they are qualified to teach. and have zero fear of that verse. How manyy in here do you think are teaching truth? man we got to humble our selves and listen

 

[Job]

Then in here we find people who think they are qualified to teach.

Why do you feel you're qualified to teach while others are not?

 

[Sword]

I don't know about anyone else here, but I know many believers who fit this description to an absolute T. I don't think they are going to make it out of this war with their salvation intact. Sad to say, but those Christians will be on the Lake of Fire casualty list.

And if you were correct. having the power of life and death in YOUR tounge. Do you think its good to continue saying they are going to hell?
You think its possible to speak life into them and bless them and God for them and there salvation.?????

 

[bbyrd009]

Why do you feel you're qualified to teach while others are not?

ha, seems we are all trying to get to "i am God" one way or another, huh

 

[bbyrd009]

all worried about "saving" the part that is supposed to die--the self. me, too

 

[Dcopymope]

And if you were correct. having the power of life and death in YOUR tounge. Do you think its good to continue saying they are going to hell?
You think its possible to speak life into them and bless them and God for them and there salvation.?????

You are a shining example of a christian who would rather not tell a long time believer that they are going off of a cliff who is full of deceit, wickedness, fornication, covetousness, the list goes on. THATS speaking life into them, not telling them that their wordly ways are in good standing with God. And if that "believer" be a homosexual, you bet I certainly will keep telling them to turn away from it if they don't want to get tossed into the fire.

 

[Job]

ha, seems we are all trying to get to "i am God" one way or another, huh

Yeah, I went through that phase about 30 years ago. I am so glad we didn't have the internet back then.

 

[FHII]

Yes, I know about that verse but how do you interpret the parable I put in the OP?

Well, like I said... Many are called, few are chosen. We are to be instant in season and out of season. But I don't see it as a parable that says we can lose our salvation. It shows that some are called but not all are chosen.

I simply can't isolate this parable from the rest of the Bible.

 

[Helen]

Stay where forever?

You mentioned the lake of fire. ) :

 

[Helen]

Well, like I said... Many are called, few are chosen. We are to be instant in season and out of season. But I don't see it as a parable that says we can lose our salvation. It shows that some are called but not all are chosen.

I simply can't isolate this parable from the rest of the Bible.

As I se it...all the twelve with Jesus were called. Right.
When Jesus went up the Mount...He did not take all the Called...but He chose three....Pater, James and John.

 

[FHII]

As I se it...all the twelve with Jesus were called. Right.
When Jesus went up the Mount...He did not take all the Called...but He chose three....Pater, James and John.

Hmmm.... Interesting and yes he did. I don't think that 8 of the remaining were not chosen. One wasn't in any sense. But only 3 were chosen for that particular task.

Interesting sidenote is that in a sense, they failed! They fell asleep!

I think it was however, just another impotant lesson.