Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[bbyrd009]

Why isn't what He said good enough for you?

i would say what He said works perfectly well, for someone whose relationship with God might be chiefly characterized as "fear." Nothing wrong with that, ok.

 

[bbyrd009]

Why isn't what He said good enough for you?

why is what He said so offensive to Jews then, if He is just handing them bread and wine? Have it your way, and answer that if you will. See, logical derivations of Scripture always seem to lead into characterizations that cannot be made to make even logical sense imo.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So...perhaps all that bold and red text is you actually showing that you yourself have trouble seeing. Because I did answer you, and you are acting like what I wrote is not there, when it is.

Again, post #1028 4th and 5th paragraphs.

Perhaps you could have someone read it to you.

YOUR asinine statement:
"And all who are saved shall wear the robes of righteousness. But you have not given robes to all, but to ONE."

Neither paragraph 4 NOR 5 answers who this "ONE" is.

 

[Marymog]

it is not that, Mary; it is that Christ is speaking on more than one level, and these obvious prevarications are signposts that a spiritual message is being delivered. If you believe that ritual communion is good enough--despite the warnings about making communion profane by doing it every day or week or whatever--and the spiritual implications, "eat and drink Christ," are not, then bam go with that ok.

YOU may believe it was a spiritual message. Scripture and 2,000 years of Christian practice say different. The people that walked and talked with Jesus and his Apostles didn't think it was a spiritual message. That is why they took part in DAILY communion (Acts 2:46) declaring it was His body and blood and believing you would bring condemnation upon yourself if you didn't believe (1Corinthians 11:27).

You do present an interesting theory. I present scripture.

 

[Marymog]

why is what He said so offensive to Jews then, if He is just handing them bread and wine? Have it your way, and answer that if you will. See, logical derivations of Scripture always seem to lead into characterizations that cannot be made to make even logical sense imo.

Because He was speaking literally...that is why it was offensive.

They walked away. So have you.

Mary

 

[Job]

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

These are those who were never believers. They were false teachers. (2 Peter 2:1).

Stranger

I apologize for not addressing this. I don't know how I missed it.

Anyway, I have to disagree. Notice they "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ".

Nonbelievers don't possess this knowledge. Escaping the pollutions of the world means they are no longer a part of the world. They no longer walk in darkness. Through the knowledge given them they were able to turn their lives around.

Becoming entangled "again" indicates he was entangled at one time, became free of that entanglement but now is entangled again. The time between the 1st and 2nd entanglement is when he was free of the world. He was basically walking in righteousness.

Verse 21 tells us he knew "the way of righteousness". Nonbelievers don't possess this knowledge. To turn from the Holy Commandment is another indication that he was not a nonbeliever. Also note that the Holy Commandment was given to him. God would not give this knowledge to a nonbeliever. The individual would have to seek it out, which would make him a believer.


That's how I interpret that passage.

i

 

[bbyrd009]

That is why they took part in DAILY communion (Acts 2:46)

heck, the DRB does not even say that; nor the KJV. That is in like one translation ok...NLT maybe? i think. You might reflect upon the agreement of every other translation to get the real intent of the passage, which i hesitate to even characterize, as you might get a diff impression. If you get "communion" though, fine, then for you it's communion.

 

[ScottA]

YOUR asinine statement:
"And all who are saved shall wear the robes of righteousness. But you have not given robes to all, but to ONE."

Neither paragraph 4 NOR 5 answers who this "ONE" is.

Oh, it's there alright. You just have a way of asking the obvious to make your own point. Well, I am not following you down that path. But since you like questions, I will ask you the same question I asked of you which you have failed to answer. Let me spell it out for you:

W-H-O...H-A-V-E...W-E...B-E-E-N...T-A-L-K-I-N-G...A-B-O-U-T?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh, it's there alright. You just have a way of asking the obvious to make your own point. Well, I am not following you down that path. But since you like questions, I will ask you the same question I asked of you which you have failed to answer. Let me spell it out for you:

W-H-O...H-A-V-E...W-E...B-E-E-N...T-A-L-K-I-N-G...A-B-O-U-T?

A LOT of things.
We have talked about the Catholic Church.
We have talked about Protestants.
We have talked about the Pope.

Now - can you just A*N*S*W*E*R the question?

 

[bbyrd009]

(1Corinthians 11:27)

Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy way will be guilty of sin against the body and blood of the Lord.

Therefore, whoever thinks that they can put off "salvation" until their deathbed, or believes that what the heck, at least "pastoring" pays a good living wage, or any manner of other hypocrisy one might try to connect with Christ, ie not really "eating and drinking Christ," but just engaging in pointless rituals to be perceived as accepted, is guilty of sin.

 

[bbyrd009]

Because He was speaking literally

obviously He was not, or else He would not have been handing them bread and wine, right?

 

[Stranger]

I apologize for not addressing this. I don't know how I missed it.

Anyway, I have to disagree. Notice they "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ".

Nonbelievers don't possess this knowledge. Escaping the pollutions of the world means they are no longer a part of the world. They no longer walk in darkness. Through the knowledge given them they were able to turn their lives around.

Becoming entangled "again" indicates he was entangled at one time, became free of that entanglement but now is entangled again. The time between the 1st and 2nd entanglement is when he was free of the world. He was basically walking in righteousness.

Verse 21 tells us he knew "the way of righteousness". Nonbelievers don't possess this knowledge. To turn from the Holy Commandment is another indication that he was not a nonbeliever. Also note that the Holy Commandment was given to him. God would not give this knowledge to a nonbeliever. The individual would have to seek it out, which would make him a believer.


That's how I interpret that passage.

i

That is fine.

But consider this. Is your salvation based on the 'knowledge' of Jesus Christ? Or is it based on faith in the Person of Jesus Christ?

I have found over the years that the most hardened people against God and Christ are those who have a lot of knowledge about the Bible and Christ. Churches are full of people who are not believers but are moral people on the outside. Everyone likes to say they are 'good people'. Man I hate that term.

Non-believers can pick up a commentary and read it before going to Sunday School. Non-believers can be religious and moral because they think that is the right way to go, yet never know Jesus Christ.

We who are Christian give this knowledge to the unbeliever all the time when we witness. Or when we argue with them here on the internet.

Our knowledge does not save. No matter how moral we may appear. Our faith in the Person of Jesus Christ saves.

Stranger

 

[Job]

We who are Christian give this knowledge to the unbeliever all the time when we witness. Or when we argue with them here on the internet.

Yes I agree, but the nonbeliever in that passage took that knowledge and acted upon it. Through faith in our Lord and Savior that nonbeliever was able to escape the pollutions of the world. He was walking the straight and narrow.

I agree with you about nonbelievers having some of this knowledge, but unless it is acted upon, it is useless. A nonbeliever cannot untangle himself from the world without the Lords help. They can lead a moral life but unless they know God, they are still a part of the world.

That's what I believe. If you believe different, I'm ok with that. I'm just a gardener.

Water and sow...

l

 

[epostle1]

I am at a bit of a loss as to why you bother to write to me, since you reject completely what I have shared and that's fine, you don't have to believe me, as you obviously don't even know me, but you cannot change my experiences with your religious beliefs, not today not ever....So perhaps save your fingers and don't write those long things which in my view just spits in the face of the Lord......

If I have said something that isn't true, quote me and we can discuss it. I am not afraid to admit to making mistakes. I don't reject completely your experiences, but they are for you, and not intended to teach the whole world. I thought you were claiming this authority for yourself. Sorry.
Mystical experiences, which is what you describe, does in fact occur in the CC. But it requires a spiritual director. I suggest you find a pastor to talk to on a regular basis, if you don't have one already, so your giftings can be used to upbuild the body.
I tend to come down hard on warped interpretation and false histories, and too many good Christians have been deceived, especially topics like the Whore duh Babble-on in the book of Rebel-ations

 

[tabletalk]

Yes I agree, but the nonbeliever in that passage took that knowledge and acted upon it. Through faith in our Lord and Savior that nonbeliever was able to escape the pollutions of the world. He was walking the straight and narrow.

I agree with you about nonbelievers having some of this knowledge, but unless it is acted upon, it is useless. A nonbeliever cannot untangle himself from the world without the Lords help. They can lead a moral life but unless they know God, they are still a part of the world.

That's what I believe. If you believe different, I'm ok with that. I'm just a gardener.

Water and sow...

l

It's easier to pray if you are already on your knees gardening! Don't pull up those tares til the harvest.

 

[Stranger]

Yes I agree, but the nonbeliever in that passage took that knowledge and acted upon it. Through faith in our Lord and Savior that nonbeliever was able to escape the pollutions of the world. He was walking the straight and narrow.

I agree with you about nonbelievers having some of this knowledge, but unless it is acted upon, it is useless. A nonbeliever cannot untangle himself from the world without the Lords help. They can lead a moral life but unless they know God, they are still a part of the world.

That's what I believe. If you believe different, I'm ok with that. I'm just a gardener.

Water and sow...

l

Nothing is said about the nonbeliever placing faith in Jesus Christ.

Stranger

 

[epostle1]

You might want to try another line of reasoning. Even God, as exampled in many passages of scripture, used unbelievers and out right haters of God to fulfill His purposes. The primary cannon of scripture was already recognized and in place prior to the Council of Nicea in 325.

False.
Nicae questioned the canonicity of James, 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John, and Jude
1) Douglas, J.D., ed., New Bible Dictionary, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1962 ed., 194-98.

The council simply acknowledged what already was and Constantine had several copies made of the scripture to reflect that. The RCC wasn't fully developed as an institutional church yet. And it is amazing the vitriol that was handed out by the RCC against those that made attempts to get the scriptures into the hands of the common people in their own language. The RCC did preserve the scripture,

That is just Protestant propaganda.
Luther's Protestant Bible came out 1520 and before his Bible the Catholic Bible had been translated into Spanish, Italian, Danish, French, Norwegian, Polish, Bohemian, Hungarian and English, there was exactly 104 editions in Latin; 38 editions in German language, 25 editions in Italian language, 18 in French. In all 626 editions of the Bible with 198 in the language of the laity, had been edited before the first Protestant Bible was sent forth into the world.

You have a typical cartoon version of the relation between Scripture and the Church, not to mention the typical false histories that go with it.
"but made itself the sole authority on owning," WRONG
"reading," WRONG
"and interpreting it" WRONG

 

[ScottA]

A LOT of things.
We have talked about the Catholic Church.
We have talked about Protestants.
We have talked about the Pope.

Now - can you just A*N*S*W*E*R the question?

Well, you are not being specific enough...try to be more clear.

But since you asked about the "one", then it would be the Pope.

 

[epostle1]

What part of my question are you having difficulty with?
You didn't answer anything. All you did was post a verse of Scripture - but that doesn't explain the comment YOU made:
In post #935 - YOU made the following moronic statement:
"And all who are saved shall wear the robes of righteousness. But you have not given robes to all, but to one."

I'll simplify this so that a 1st grader can understand and ask it differently:
Explain your statement above.

What he may mean is that Catholics put the Pope in heaven before he is dead. It's typical insane reasoning. just because we love our Pope.. Everybody with a Bible is a pope except the Pope
Scott, would you mind if I called you pope Scott? Since you are your own authority in a church of one? And if you have a church, does it have a web page? I'd like to read its mission statement.

 

[Job]

Nothing is said about the nonbeliever placing faith in Jesus Christ.

Stranger

So it is your belief that an individual is able to overcome their sinful ways without faith in Jesus? To walk in righteousness without faith?

What would be the point?