Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[bbyrd009]

Salvation loss. Is it possible?

the question universally asked by those who do not even have salvation imo; they have fears. about tomorrow.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Shaw.
But you tire too easily!

say something once, why say it again?

 

[GodsGrace]

say something once, why say it again?

I agree.
But we weren't repeating yet.
Not like we're going to change each other's minds.
It's good to exchange ideas though...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I agree.
But we weren't repeating yet.
Not like we're going to change each other's minds.
It's good to exchange ideas though...

Why?
So you can disagree with the truth?

 

[GodsGrace]

Why?
So you can disagree with the truth?

Maybe I have the truth?

What did the early church teach about salvation and eternal security? Many of the church fathers living from the first to the third centuries believed and taught conditional security. They taught that a person was saved by faith through the grace of God but they had to live a life dedicated to Christ until the end.

Let’s examine some of the quotes from their writings. Justin Martyr wrote around 160 A.D.: “I hold further, that those of you who have confessed and known this man to be Christ, yet who have gone back for some reason to the legal dispensation [i.e., the Mosaic law], and have denied that this man is Christ , and have not repented before death— you will by no means be saved.” [Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1 page 218] “If you do not guard yourself against [anger], you and your household will lose all hope of salvation.”

[Hermas written around 150 and is quoted from Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 2 page 23 as recorded in A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs, David W. Bercot published by Hendrickson Publishers, 1998] Irenaeus
wrote around 180 A.D. “Those who do not obey Him, being disinherited by Him, have ceased to be His sons.”[Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1 page 525 as recorded in A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs, David
W. Bercot published by Hendrickson Publishers, 1998] Clement of Alexandria around 195 A.D. wrote: “It is neither the faith, nor the love, nor the hope nor the endurance of one day; rather, ‘he that endures to the end will be saved.’”[Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 2 page 600 as recorded in A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs, David W. Bercot published by Hendrickson Publishers, 1998]

There's much more...

 

[bbyrd009]

say something once, why say it again?

qu'est-ce que c'est?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I don't know what the early church taught, I wasn't there.
I don't know what the early church fathers said.
I never heard their voices.
How about today?
What do people of God say today?
What makes an old man beyond his time more relevant than present day man?

 

[bbyrd009]

What makes an old man beyond his time more relevant than present day man?

if they were really old when they wrote, it might have been more relevant, but we have to assume that they wrote while they were still engaged in worldly pursuits, younger iow

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

qu'est-ce que c'est?

as I said, say something once, why say it again?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

if they were really old when they wrote, it might have been more relevant, but we have to assume that they wrote while they were still engaged in worldly pursuits, younger iow

well, that's not the point I'm taking here
these men may have been scholars of their day
assuming they were, why should I believe they were more inspired than say... I am?
After all, if the Holy Spirit were to teach me something, and he has, why should some ancient scholar supersede that?

 

[bbyrd009]

as I said, say something once, why say it again?

well, playing DA here, because you might restate it in such a way so as to allow for the understanding of the hearer, if they are just ignorant of the concept, or to clarify that they are just being deliberately obtuse, if that is the case

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

well, playing DA here, because you might restate it in such a way so as to allow for the understanding of the hearer, if they are just ignorant of the concept, or to clarify that they are just being deliberately obtuse, if that is the case

You heard what I said
you heard what they said
you decide

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't know what the early church taught, I wasn't there.
I don't know what the early church fathers said.
I never heard their voices.
How about today?
What do people of God say today?
What makes an old man beyond his time more relevant than present day man?

You weren't there but it was all written down.
Who knows more about what Jesus meant about anything?
Some guy today who studies theology or someone from the 1st century who had occasion to learn with John the Apostle?
Who cares what people of today mean or say?

A different kind of Christianity that I don't recognize is being taught.
Jesus taught the Apostles for 3 1/2 years and He didn't teach them what I'm hearing today.

I hear many quoting James and Peter and Paul.
Very rarely do I hear anyone quoting Jesus.
Jesus hung on that cross, not Paul or any of the other writers.

John the Apostle spoke to Ignatius and Polycarp.
I do believe they are to be trusted more.

 

[bbyrd009]

well, playing DA here, because you might restate it in such a way so as to allow for the understanding of the hearer, if they are just ignorant of the concept, or to clarify that they are just being deliberately obtuse, if that is the case

also, other readers might be helped to understand, iow it is not a bad idea to recognize that your posts will be found in search whenever, 10 years from now maybe, iow you have a wider audience than just one person

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You weren't there but it was all written down.
Who knows more about what Jesus meant about anything?
Some guy today who studies theology or someone from the 1st century who had occasion to learn with John the Apostle?
Who cares what people of today mean or say?

A different kind of Christianity that I don't recognize is being taught.
Jesus taught the Apostles for 3 1/2 years and He didn't teach them what I'm hearing today.

I hear many quoting James and Peter and Paul.
Very rarely do I hear anyone quoting Jesus.
Jesus hung on that cross, not Paul or any of the other writers.

John the Apostle spoke to Ignatius and Polycarp.
I do believe they are to be trusted more.

They are not Scripture
I trust Francis Schaffer and C. S. Lewis.
So what?
They aren't Scripture either.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

also, other readers might be helped to understand, iow it is not a bad idea to recognize that your posts will be found in search whenever, 10 years from now maybe, iow you have a wider audience than just one person

I trust you will expose the world to my wisdom.

 

[bbyrd009]

You heard what I said
you heard what they said
you decide

ha ya, no, that case was pretty clear i guess

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

ha ya, no, that case was pretty clear i guess

It's time you tell us the truth.
How old are you?
I'm 67.

 

[GodsGrace]

well, playing DA here, because you might restate it in such a way so as to allow for the understanding of the hearer, if they are just ignorant of the concept, or to clarify that they are just being deliberately obtuse, if that is the case

Rollo, restate something?

 

[GodsGrace]

It's time you tell us the truth.
How old are you?
I'm 67.

You look a lot younger than 67.

I guess that's a silly thing for me to say...
I look younger than you !!!