Salvation Through Baptism ???

[Taken]

Taken said:
Jesus Came to Earth to Accomplish several things. Highlighting;
* To GIVE His Flesh, For the life of all men.
^ He Did.

JunChosen
INCORRECT! Jesus came to earth to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21)

Jesus came to Earth to accomplish SEVERAL THINGS...IS Correct!
The One thing I Highlighted, is Correct.

John 19
[28] After this, Jesus knowing that ALL THINGS were now ACCOMPLISH-ED that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

You should be embarrassed to have quickly revealed your lack of comprehension, that Jesus came to Accomplish Several things.

Jesus came to give His Flesh...
John 6:
[51] ... that I will give is my flesh...
Matt 1:21
Jesus came to Save His people...
[21] ...he shall save his people from their sins.

Revealing your narrow understanding OF either or , is a reflection on you, not me.

Taken said:
* To OFFER TO all men, an "IF" / "THEN" proposal.
^ He Did.
(that was Jesus' TEACHING)

INCORRECT!

Jesus declared in John 6:44 "No man can come to me except the Father draw him..." Which by the way, is the only criteria by which man can be saved!

Again you quickly reveal your narrow understanding.

I Highlighted Jesus' teaching. Thus: For the ignorant: The Word of God, being Spoken and HEARD by men, IS HOW men begin being DRAWN to Him!

Rom 10:
[17] ...Faith comes BY HEARING...


All men Can ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus' OFFER.
(Man's Response)

Again you quickly reveal your narrow understanding.

INCORRECT!

Man can neither accept nor reject Jesus because he is spiritually dead. A corpse in and of himself has no life within him.

Unlike you, who dictates men can Not Reject Jesus...IS NOT Jesus' Teaching.

John 12:
[48] He that rejecteth me..

Sorry to say we do not somewhat differ! WE totally disagree!

Thank you for pointing out your Lack of understanding is a barrier between you and me.
FYI, Your limited understanding does not effect me.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

We differ somewhat.

Already acknowledged.

God's will, purpose, pleasure, and glory, is to save mankind, not make an offer of salvation to mankind.

Huh?

What is your Bottom Line?

God Will Save All of mankind?
Mankind Has NO Choice to be Saved or Not?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[JunChosen]

Thank you for pointing out your Lack of understanding is a barrier between you and me.
FYI, Your limited understanding does not effect me.

It is easy to make BLANKET STATEMENTS without really saying anything specific.

My responses were correct because I'm aware of your theology.

Apparently you missed Post #1260 or strictly wanted to avoid it!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Taken]

A spiritually dead person can not respond to the Gospel call because a spiritually dead person has no life in himself!

To God Be The Glory

You would be wise to consult the Scriptures BEFORE exposing your lack of knowledge.

It is precisely a Spiritually Dead Person the Lord Saves.

Eph 1
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

And...FYI...a Spiritually Dead person, (who IS Alive), absolutely Does have
( THREE Life forms ) WITHIN Himself.

* BLOOD -
Gen 9:
[5] ...blood of your lives ...

* LIVING SOUL -
Gen [7]
... LORD God(s) ... breathed into ...breath of life;

* SPIRIT -
Zech 12:
[1] The LORD ... formeth the spirit of man WITHIN him.

Man's Life- BLOOD...Shall Die!
It's a SURETY...God Requires THAT DEATH.

Gen 9:
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require;

The Living SOUL IN a man's Body...
May or MAY NOT BE SAVED.

The LIFE in the SOUL...IS GODS, HIS LIFE NEVER Dies.
The SOUL...IN A man...IS GODS.

Ezek:
[4] all souls are mine...

Gods LIFE is call Jesus.
John 14:
[6] I am (Jesus) the LIFE.

A Saved Soul, Keeps Gods Life IN it, and Returns TO God.

Gods Life shall Depart OUT of an UN-Saved Soul and Return TO God, and the Soul destroyed IN Hell.

Matt 10:
[28] him which is able to destroy... soul ... in hell.

Ecc 12:
[7] ...the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

A Natural Individual man - has His own LIFE, which IS His Blood.
(ANY man can KILL his OWN LIFE or the LIFE of Another man).
God Requires the Blood LIFE of Every Natural man TO Become DEAD.

A Natural Individual man - has A Soul from God and LIFE In that SOUL from God.
Gods Life always Leaves a man's DEAD Body.
Whether a Soul in a man, Becomes Saved or Not...IS precisely Determined, by WHAT the Individual man Freely Chooses.

A man WHO Chooses to NOT have the SOUL within him Saved...eh...Gods Life will Return to God...and That Soul Destroyed....(and BTW...along with that man's body)...and Forgotten.

A man WHO Chooses TO HAVE the SOUL within him SAVED...The Lord God Himself has Taught mankind HOW TO accomplish that man's Choice.

And "Further" the Lord God HAS Revealed "another" LIFE FORM "GIFT", to "within" the man; the Lord God has Prepared, and Shall GIVE to Every man, who HAS Become Soul Saved.

That is Exclusively regarding "the NATURAL spirit" of mankind....To Become BORN AGAIN, BY the Supernatural SEED of God...which is NEVER Subject TO Death.

The WHOLE LIFE WITHIN An EARTHLY MAN...
IS: BLOOD, SOUL, SPIRIT.

The WHOLE LIFE WITHIN A "NATURALLY BORN EARTHLY MAN"...is Corrupt and WHOLLY unacceptable To BE "WITH" or "IN the Presence OF God".

The Lord God HAS OFFERED Mankind a WAY for ALL of mankind to BECOME "MADE WHOLLY Acceptable to God".

Every Individual Has Freewill TO Accept or Reject Gods Offer to Become MADE Whole.

No Teaching Reveals God "forces" any man Against his own will to Become MADE Whole.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Apparently you missed Post #1260 or strictly wanted to avoid it!

I read your post # 1260...nothing significant to respond to.

When God wills a thing it shall come to pass

LOL-
that was not posted to me
that is not a newsflash revelation
that required no response from me

Did you notice Gods Will at work When...He Destroyed, with the Earth, All but 8 of mankind?

Gen 6:
[13] I will destroy them with the earth.



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Candidus]

This is the biggest lie! Irresistible grace is a false teaching! For that reason the phrase Irresistible grace does not occur in the scriptures. Believing in Christ is a choice. A choice made by the free-will of a person. Calvinism is a despicable religion.

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." Jn. 1:12-13.

1. Did you will your way into life as a baby when you were physically born? How did you accomplish your own conception and birth?

2. You can no more birth yourself spiritually than you can birth yourself physically... God must precede with grace because "no man seeks God." Self spiritual birth does not occur in Scripture!

3. How then does God "give the right to become children of God"? He wills salvation by grace. Do you choose or demand grace? No! "Receiving" is not rejecting the offer of salvation that comes in God's timing and grace. It is "Irresistible" in that moment! You do not "choose" when it is offered anymore than you chose when to be physically born into this world!

Salvation is not something that comes from a better education, (hearing a preacher and making a decision to turn over a new leaf), or knowing how to get wet, or how much you get wet. Such is an unbiblical self-birth/self-salvation that is antithetical to the Gospel that we are given in Scripture.

There is no real grace in the Pelagian self-salvation scheme. It is no surprise that the Pelagian will make salvation of their own will instead of the grace of God, and even add water to the Gospel, since that would be an extension of being their own Savior.

 

[Tong2020]

1 Timothy 2:3-4 must be read in light of 1 Corinthians 15:22, John 6:44,39, and Romans 3:10.

No objection. However, I think it wise that 1 Tim. 2:3-4 must be read vis-a-vis Gen. 6:5-8.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Yes, God desires all men to be saved. But, let us go back in the time of Genesis 6. In Genesis 6:5, this is the testimony of scriptures of God concerning man, "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." In the next verses, we learn that God was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart, and so God said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” And we learn that God did not save all men, only eight. And that even, by grace.

Now, try to analyze 1 Tim. 2:3-4 and Gen. 6:5-8. What does that tells us about God and His salvation?

Tong
R0952

 

[Tong2020]

ONLY the Blood washes away sins.

The phrase "blood (of Jesus) washes away sins" is figurative language. So, it should not be taken literally. Just saying...

Tong
R0953

 

[Tong2020]

Huh?

What is your Bottom Line?

God Will Save All of mankind?
Mankind Has NO Choice to be Saved or Not?

You quoted what is the bottom line ~ "God's will, purpose, pleasure, and glory, is to save mankind, not make an offer of salvation to mankind."

But apparently, you didn't quite get it. Not that God will save every individual man, but mankind, the creature kind, that is the kind of Adam.

Tong
R0954

 

[BreadOfLife]

When God wills a thing you can be sure it will come to pass, including Matthew 1:21, John 3:16, John 6:44, and Romans 6:23.

Since you cannot understand what has been declared by scriptures, it looks like I'll have to go by way of an illustration, and if you still don't "get it" it is because you are blind.

SALVATION AS SEEN IN THE RAISING OF LAZARUS!

When Jesus arrived at the tomb of Lazarus, He cried with a loud voice: "Lazarus come forth!"
Could Lazarus hear the command since he was dead for our days? Of course not! But he did come forth, what had to have happened? Well Jesus had to go into the tomb and give him life, ears to hear, eyes to see, and mouth to speak.

Likewise:

1) As Lazarus was physically dead, so are we spiritually dead. We need the Lord Jesus to intervene in our lives to give us life. Eternal life that is.
2) As Lazarus was physically deaf, so are we spiritually deaf in that we cannot hear the Gospel.
3) As Lazarus was physically blind, so are we spiritually blind to the Gospel.
4) As Lazarus was physically dumb had no mouth to speak, so are we spiritually dumb whereas before conversion we spoke the language of the world now we speak the language of heaven.

If God does not intervene in our lives we will never become saved. So I ask where is your free will, faith, and acceptance in all this in the illustration above?

To God Be The Glory

In this ONE single passage - your position goes right down the drain . . .

Matt. 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and YOU WERE NOT WILLING!

This is a perfect example of where the will of God is dashed by the free will of man.

 

[JunChosen]

[QUOTE="BreadOfLife, post: 803975, member: 7345"]In this ONE single passage - your position goes right down the drain . . .

Matt. 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and YOU WERE NOT WILLING!

This is a perfect example of where the will of God is dashed by the free will of man.[/QUOTE]

And therefore you teach that man is the king maker because he is sovereign in his salvation to accept or reject and NOT God who created him? And, that God is not sovereign, as the Potter, to do what He wills to His creation? God said: "Esau have I hated and Jacob have I loved!" and Jesus said: "You have NOT chosen me but I have chosen you."

Capital words are for emphasis.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Taken]

B] You quoted what is the bottom line

~ "God's will, purpose, pleasure, and glory, is to save mankind, not make an offer of salvation to mankind."

But apparently, you didn't quite get it. Not that God will save every individual man, but mankind, the creature kind, that is the kind of Adam.

Tong
R0954[/QUOTE]

"God's will...is to save mankind.

God's will save every creature kind that is the kind of Adam".

"God will ...NOT make an off of Salvation to mankind"

Congrats, your comedic post got a chuckle.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And therefore you teach that man is the king maker because he is sovereign in his salvation to accept or reject and NOT God who created him? And, that God is not sovereign, as the Potter, to do what He wills to His creation? God said: "Esau have I hated and Jacob have I loved!" and Jesus said: "You have NOT chosen me but I have chosen you."

Capital words are for emphasis.

To God Be The Glory

"You have NOT chosen me but I have chosen you."
That doesn't mean that every individual accepts being chosen.

According to you Calvinists - God essentially rapes you because he forces His love on you. The God of Scripture doesn't force His love on anybody because He doesn't HAVE to. He's not the desperate little god of Calvinism.
He wills the salvation of ALL people (1 Tim. 2-3) but He leaves it up to US if we want to remain in Him. That's what the Parable of the Prodigal Son is ALL about.

Apparently - it was wasted on YOU . . .

 

[JunChosen]

Now, try to analyze 1 Tim. 2:3-4 and Gen. 6:5-8. What does that tells us about God and His salvation?

The term "all men" in 1 Timothy 2:4 can only refer to all believers. If it denotes each and every man, then rightly so, no one can be put to hell.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Enoch111]

The phrase "blood (of Jesus) washes away sins" is figurative language. So, it should not be taken literally...

That is FALSE and contrary to Scripture. The blood of Christ (1) literally, (2) spiritually, (3) supernaturally, (4) mysteriously (4) in actuality washes away sins. This is a divine truth and anyone who denies this speaks heresy.

 

[Tong2020]

Congrats, your comedic post got a chuckle.

And that's all you can do to refute and how you refute? Well,.... you haven't succeeded and will never succeed with such.

Read Gen. 6:5-8 and perhaps you might just well see something in there.

Tong
R0955

 

[Taken]

In this ONE single passage - your position goes right down the drain . . .

Matt. 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and YOU WERE NOT WILLING!

This is a perfect example of where the will of God is dashed by the free will of man.

BOL ...
There are Umpteen Scriptures of men exercising their own will of REJECTING God and Jesus.

JunChosen is hanging on his own limited understanding.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Tong2020]

The term "all men" in 1 Timothy 2:4 can only refer to all believers. If it denotes each and every man, then rightly so, no one can be put to hell.

To God Be The Glory

Please tell me what does that had to do with:

"Now, try to analyze 1 Tim. 2:3-4 and Gen. 6:5-8. What does that tells us about God and His salvation?"

Tong
R0956

 

[Tong2020]

That is FALSE and contrary to Scripture. The blood of Christ (1) literally, (2) spiritually, (3) supernaturally, (4) mysteriously (4) in actuality washes away sins. This is a divine truth and anyone who denies this speaks heresy.

As I said "blood washes sin" is figurative language. Figurative in that, blood does not literally wash away sins.

Tong
R0957

 

[Taken]

And that's all you can do to refute and how you refute? Well,.... you haven't succeeded and will never succeed with such.

LOL- already refuted ... I have no obligation to Understand FOR JunChosen.

Read Gen. 6:5-8 and perhaps you might just well see something in there.

Read it. What's your point?