Salvation Through Baptism ???

[Taken]

As I said "blood washes sin" is figurative language. Figurative in that, blood does not literally wash away sins.

Tong
R0957

LOL- yes what you said is Clear...but not Scriptural.



Heb 9:
[14] ...the blood of Christ...purge your conscience...

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL ...
There are Umpteen Scriptures of men exercising their own will of REJECTING God and Jesus.

JunChosen is hanging on his own limited understanding.

Glory to God,
Taken

I know. I always like to see how they try to squirm out of each verse.
It makes it easier to for future dialog with other Calvinists.

 

[Taken]

I know. I always like to see how they try to squirm out of each verse.
It makes it easier to for future dialog with other Calvinists.

I wouldn't know about that. I don't know what defines a Calvinist.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

The term "all men" in 1 Timothy 2:4 can only refer to all believers. If it denotes each and every man, then rightly so, no one can be put to hell.

To God Be The Glory

WRONG.

Here's another one . . .
John 17:20-22
“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, THAT THEY MAY ALL BE ONE, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Jesus, who is GOD willed that His Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE.
There are literally tens of thousands of different Christian denominations that teach different doctrines.

Yet another proof of our FREE WILL . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I wouldn't know about that. I don't know what defines a Calvinist.

Glory to God,
Taken

I'm talking about the 5 Points of Calvinism (T.U.L.I.P.):
Total Depravity
Unconditional election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Preservation of the Saints

 

[Tong2020]

Read it. What's your point?

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

That's mankind according to God.

6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

That is God's judgement for mankind.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

But God did not put an mankind to extinction, which He could have. In giving grace to Noah and 7 of his family, God was saving mankind, that is the kind of Adam.

So, as I said "God's will, purpose, pleasure, and glory, is to save mankind." Not that God will save every individual man, but mankind, the creature kind, that is the kind of Adam.

Tong
R0958

 

[Taken]

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

That's mankind according to God.

6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

That is God's judgement for mankind.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

But God did not put an mankind to extinction, which He could have. In giving grace to Noah and 7 of his family, God was saving mankind, that is the kind of Adam.

So, as I said "God's will, purpose, pleasure, and glory, is to save mankind." Not that God will save every individual man, but mankind, the creature kind, that is the kind of Adam.

Tong
R0958

So you are trying to Teach...in a round about WAY...
Gods will is to Save Mankind...
But all of mankind will Not be Saved?

 

[JunChosen]

"You have NOT chosen me but I have chosen you."
That doesn't mean that every individual accepts being chosen.

They can't anyway because they are not capable to accept or to reject as they are spiritually dead.

According to you Calvinists - God essentially rapes you because he forces His love on you. The God of Scripture doesn't force His love on anybody because He doesn't HAVE to. He's not the desperate little god of Calvinism.
He wills the salvation of ALL people (1 Tim. 2-3) but He leaves it up to US if we want to remain in Him. That's what the Parable of the Prodigal Son is ALL about.

FORGET ABOUT CALVIN HE IS NOT THE SUBJECT OF OUR DIALOGUE!! If you want to discuss Calvin first look into the teachings of your church!

Then we can reason together about Calvin and the teachings of your church in another thread.

Again, if God wills that all man be saved as you claim above (1 Timothy 2:3) then no one can be put to hell, unless if we remain in him BTW, the phrase "if we remain in Him" is never taught in Scripture. People go to hell because they are sinners!

You don't even know the meaning of the Parable of the Prodigal Son. How can you even defend/discuss the things of God? Just as Jesus said: "Know ye not the parable? and how then will you know ALL parables? Mark 4:13.

The Parable of the Prodigal Son is set forth in Matthew 18:12-13 which reads:

12) "How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13) And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray."

To God Be The Glory

 

[BreadOfLife]

They can't anyway because they are not capable to accept or to reject as they are spiritually dead.

FORGET ABOUT CALVIN HE IS NOT THE SUBJECT OF OUR DIALOGUE!! If you want to discuss Calvin first look into the teachings of your church!

Then we can reason together about Calvin and the teachings of your church in another thread.

Again, if God wills that all man be saved as you claim above (1 Timothy 2:3) then no one can be put to hell, unless if we remain in him BTW, the phrase "if we remain in Him" is never taught in Scripture. People go to hell because they are sinners!

You don't even know the meaning of the Parable of the Prodigal Son. How can you even defend/discuss the things of God? Just as Jesus said: "Know ye not the parable? and how then will you know ALL parables? Mark 4:13.

The Parable of the Prodigal Son is set forth in Matthew 18:12-13 which reads:

12) "How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13) And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray."

To God Be The Glory

We can't forget about Calvin because he is the INVENTOR of your doctrines.
Except for the "T" in TULIP - his 5 Points were NEVER taught for 1500 years of church history. To leave him OUT of the conversation makes as much sense as leaving the teachings of the Apostles out of the conversation.

As for your 2nd remark above in RED - this is nonsense. Just because the phrase is not explicitly in Scripture does NOT mean that the TEACHING is not there. ALL of the following passages are about OUR CHOOSING to REMAIN in Him:

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.

For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.

Matthew 10:22
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

John 15:1-6
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Romans 11:20-22
But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

 

[JunChosen]

WRONG.

Here's another one . . .
John 17:20-22
“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, THAT THEY MAY ALL BE ONE, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Who are the "these only?"

Jesus, who is GOD willed that His Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE.
There are literally tens of thousands of different Christian denominations that teach different doctrines.

No objection there.

However, I would rather be in a literally ten thousands of denomination where the Gospel is still being taught and the possibility of becoming saved is greater than a one denomination church that teaches a different salvation than that of Scripture and the hope of becoming saved is nil...Nada!

Yet another proof of our FREE WILL . . .

What proof? What scriptures did you present "comparing scripture with scripture?"

You are firing a gun which is empty without bullets. Do you understand what this means?

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

We can't forget about Calvin because he is the INVENTOR of your doctrines.

Are you claiming that the CC is the only entity that can interpret Scripture? That no one else is capable? In fact, that's what I heard I have news for you, we all feet of clay.

Just to let you know, God hates the proud!

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

. Just because the phrase is not explicitly in Scripture does NOT mean that the TEACHING is not there. ALL of the following passages are about OUR CHOOSING to REMAIN in Him:

Don't forget Post #1260.

To God Be The Glory

 

[BreadOfLife]

Who are the "these only?"

The FIRST Christians - the Jews (see Matt. 15:24).

No objection there.
However, I would rather be in a literally ten thousands of denomination where the Gospel is still being taught and the possibility of becoming saved is greater than a one denomination church that teaches a different salvation than that of Scripture and the hope of becoming saved is nil...Nada!

A ridiculous response to the Biblical and historical proof that the will of God has been dashed by man.

What proof? What scriptures did you present "comparing scripture with scripture?"
You are firing a gun which is empty without bullets. Do you understand what this means?
To God Be The Glory

Yup.
It means that in order to believe in the perverse doctrines of Calvinism - you must cherry-pick verses of Scripture out of context - instead of harmonizing ALL Scripture.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Don't forget Post #1260.

To God Be The Glory

I already addressed post #1260.

Besides - WHO said that God DOESN'T intervene in our lives?? The difference between a Christian and a Calvinist is that the Christian understands that God intervenes - and the Calvinist believes that God coerces and forces Himself on us.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Are you claiming that the CC is the only entity that can interpret Scripture? That no one else is capable? In fact, that's what I heard I have news for you, we all feet of clay.

Just to let you know, God hates the proud!

To God Be The Glory

Soooooo, THIS is you response to my charge that John Calvin invented your doctrines?
That everybody has the God-given right to invent doctrines based on their perverse understanding of Scripture??

REALLY??

 

[Enoch111]

I don't know what defines a Calvinist.

Everyone should know what defines a Calvinist. TULIP is *another gospel*.

 

[Tong2020]

LOL- yes what you said is Clear...but not Scriptural.



Heb 9:
[14] ...the blood of Christ...purge your conscience...

Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Literal blood does not there literally does what is said it does as to sanctify for the purifying of the flesh with regards that of animals, nor does it literally cleanse one's conscience from dead works with regards that of Christ. The blood there is figurative language to refer to the "life".

Tong
R0960

 

[Tong2020]

So you are trying to Teach...in a round about WAY...
Gods will is to Save Mankind...
But all of mankind will Not be Saved?

You really don't seem to get it. God's will, purpose, pleasure, and glory is to save mankind. Mankind, to mean the creature (man) "kind", the kind of Adam, and not mankind to mean all man. So that, even while He was so unpleased with man, fallen as they all are, whose every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually, God did not killed them all to the extinction of mankind.

Tong
R0961

 

[Taken]

Everyone should know what defines a Calvinist. TULIP is *another gospel*.

Like in all Religious beliefs, a Basic acknowledgment of WHO specifically is ones God hangs the pertinent standing of any individual.

It becomes confounded when men begin dictating "their" Logical Understanding is the Limit of Gods Understanding and men follow...then another man rises to notoriety and reforms a few points of "his" Logiical Understanding and men follow...and over the course of history ...denominations of men following "other men's" Logical Understanding becomes the normal accepted belief "system".

It appears to me, in many denominations, the HIGHLIGHT of the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and "their" Promised Christ Messiah, revealed in Jesus has fallen, to Be Secondary, to POINTS of men's Logical Understanding and ^ that becoming their HIGHLIGHTS, and BTW, a setting for discourse among men.

To me, the HIGHLIGHT IS WHO...and my WHO hangs with the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and that Gods Christ Messiah Revealed in Jesus and His Understanding forwarded to me by me Asking Him, through a Spiritual Relationship He OFFERED and I ACCEPTED.

So just saying, all the Opinions of men, revealed in Blips here and there in Forums such as this, are but a fleeting interest to me, and curbed from drawing me away from Scripture, to delve into Long study process of multiple Denominations.

TULIP, appears to be the acronym non- Calvinists use to Describe Calvinists. Not sure that was Calvin's HIGHLIGHT of Faith, but perhaps his highlight of Logical Understanding...which again is but a fleeting interest to me.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Literal blood does not there literally does what is said it does as to sanctify for the purifying of the flesh with regards that of animals, nor does it literally cleanse one's conscience from dead works with regards that of Christ. The blood there is figurative language to refer to the "life".

Tong
R0960

You can bypass Jesus' "Literal" Pure Blood all day long...I am not in Agreement with you.

The OFFERING BY men, of an unblemished Animal, to be Killed...ON the Alter of The Temple IN Jerusalem, which when Killed its pure SINLESS FLESH Life ( its BLOOD ), is the Offering, TO God, for Forgiveness of Sins "of" the Natural SINFUL FLESH of the men WHO thereafter are Sprinkled with the ASHES of the Animal, To Receive the Forgiveness of their FLESH (past) Sins. And The following year, they Repeat the Pilgrimage To the Temple in Jerusalem and Repeat the process.

A greater OFFERING of SINLESS FLESH and PURE BLOOD was GIVEN BY God, TO the WORLD, ONCE, that ANY man could freely ACCEPT or REJECT...

A SINLESS PURE and HOLY FLESH and BLOOD Body, Prepared OF God, Purposed IN Himself, Manifested and Offered to All men...
TO Freely Accept or Freely Reject....
To Spiritually Give ones OWN Body in Death WITH His Body...
To Spiritually Be Washed IN His Pure Blood.
TO thereafter ONCE and Forever, Be Forgiven of All Sin of the man's FLESH AND SOUL and the Same FLESH and SOUL Accounted "BY God"; Righteous, Cleansed, Sanctified, Saved unto God, and Prepared to RECEIVE:
A Spiritual Circumcised Heart, Gods Spirit, Gods Seed, Birth of a man's Spiritual spirit, Gods Truth, Gods Understanding, All Sin Covered by Gods Light, all Sin forgotten BY God, Inability to Sin Again, Authority to Live In Christ Jesus' RISEN Body, Justification to be SEAL only unto the Lord God Almighty, and RISEN AND in a glorious uncorrupted immortal Body, and Dwell Forever In the presence AND with their Lord God Almighty.

If it is your understanding Literal Physical changes, "are Not Given" an Earthly man, IN a Literal Fashion, "BY" God Himself ...that is "your Option"...as it is my Option to Believe the Lord God Himself IS Supreme Spiritual Power and Authority to Literally, Cleanse a Natural Man, with WHAT He "OFFERED" and Established as Acceptable TO Him.

1 John 1:
[7] ... blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Glory to God,
Taken