Salvation Through Baptism ???

[Grailhunter]

I have found in all forums that people are set in their beliefs although when someone comes along bringing the true Gospel.

Case in point is the comment made above. Salvation is NEVER "offered" rather it is "given." The word "offer" connotes that salvation can be rejected or accepted, and neither of these methods are taught in Scripture.

To God Be The Glory

This is the biggest lie! Irresistible grace is a false teaching! For that reason the phrase Irresistible grace does not occur in the scriptures. Believing in Christ is a choice. A choice made by the free-will of a person. Calvinism is a despicable religion.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What part of "no one seeks after God, no, not one'" do you not understand? Of course they were not willing, they could not because mankind is spiritually dead! A corpse can't do anything.

First of all - you've taken Romans 3 completely OUT of context.
It is a reference to Psalm 14.

Romans 3 isn't talking about EVERYBODY - and neither is Psalm 14.
Read and learn . . .
Rom. 3:10-12
... as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good, not even one.”

Psalm 14:1-3
The FOOL says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds;
there is none who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
to see if there are any who understand,
who seek after God.
3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
there is none who does good, not even one.

In verse 5 - it says that God keeps company with the "Righteous".
Gee - and I thought YOU said there was NONE righteous . . .

CONTEXT, my friend . . .

You mean it's like a check that requires two signatures that if one does not sign the check is invalid?

FYI, salvation is a gift and is of God, therefore is given only to believers!

To God Be The Glory

And a gift MUST be accepted - or it's never given.
A gift requires a RESPONSE.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Calvinists! Judgment before the foundation of the world to give Satan a quota. Proposing that all of reality is puppet show, by the Great Puppet Master god. False religion for sure.
And John 3:16 is not misunderstood.

For Calvinism and their "Double Predestination" to be true - God would have to be a monster who forces Himself on those He "chooses".
He drags them kicking and screaming against their will into Heaven - while He sends the rest kicking and screaming against their will into Hell.

Not MY God - not the God of Scripture.

 

[Grailhunter]

For Calvinism and their "Double Predestination" to be true - God would have to be a monster who forces Himself on those He "chooses".
He drags them kicking and creaming against their will into Heaven - while He sends the rest kicking and creaming against their will into Hell.

Not MY God - not the God of Scripture.

Ya it is blasphemous, sacrilegious, and slanderous against God.
A religion born of insanity.
Charles "Taze" Russell had deep issues and came up with the Jehovah's Witness.
John Calvin was brilliant but his logic was near to insanity. His issues were an observance of apparent
lack of Fairness. His conclusions were to resolve those issues. This concept of fairness is one of the things that caused Satan to turn against God. His solution effectively blames everything on God... We have no say in it.

 

[JunChosen]

This is the biggest lie! Irresistible grace is a false teaching! For that reason the phrase Irresistible grace does not occur in the scriptures. Believing in Christ is a choice. A choice made by the free-will of a person. Calvinism is a despicable religion.

Because you do not understand grace.

Irresistible grace does not occur in the scriptures.

True. So is the word "Trinity" does not appear in Holy Writ, yet Scripture definitely teaches that there are three persons in the Godhead Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Are you one of those who do not believe in the Trinity?

Believing in Christ is a choice.

Where do you read that? We've already dealt with it in John 3:16

A choice made by the free-will of a person.

Jesus said: "Ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you..." (John 15:16). Where is your free in all this?

To God Be The Glory

 

[Grailhunter]

Because you do not understand grace.



True. So is the word "Trinity" does not appear in Holy Writ, yet Scripture definitely teaches that there are three persons in the Godhead Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Are you one of those who do not believe in the Trinity?


Where do you read that? We've already dealt with it in John 3:16



Jesus said: "Ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you..." (John 15:16). Where is your free in all this?

To God Be The Glory

Believe it or not I have done this debate before.
I know the outcome. You may have free will but you do not have a free mind. No scripture will convince you. In the past I have worked with law enforcement and intervention services to rescue women and children from Calvinists and Jehovah Witnesses. Mind control vs Free-Will.

 

[JunChosen]

Believe it or not I have done this debate before.
I know the outcome. You may have free will but you do not have a free mind. No scripture will convince you. In the past I have worked with law enforcement and intervention services to rescue women and children from Calvinists and Jehovah Witnesses. Mind control vs Free-Will.

Not with me you haven't. Now I understand why you despise Calvinists so much although I am not a Calvinist. Whatever experience you had with Calvinists all are not the same as do all Protestants are not the same

If I can put a label on myself I would call me a Biblisist if there is such a word.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Grailhunter]

Not with me you haven't. Now I understand why you despise Calvinists so much although I am not a Calvinist. Whatever experience you had with Calvinists all are not the same as do all Protestants are not the same

If I can put a label on myself I would call me a Biblisist if there is such a word.

To God Be The Glory

Ya....you are not fooling anybody.
This is an international forum. Worldwide input. If I say I have never seen a Calvinist female on this forum. People here might not know why. But you and I do.

 

[Taken]

I have found in all forums that people are set in their beliefs although when someone comes along bringing the true Gospel.

Case in point is the comment made above. Salvation is NEVER "offered" rather it is "given." The word "offer" connotes that salvation can be rejected or accepted, and neither of these methods are taught in Scripture.

To God Be The Glory

We somewhat differ.

Jesus Came to Earth to Accomplish several things. Highlighting;
* To GIVE His Flesh, For the life of all men.
^ He Did.
(That was Jesus' ACT)

* To OFFER TO all men, an "IF" / "THEN" proposal.
^ He Did.
(that was Jesus' TEACHING)

All men Can ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus' OFFER.
(Man's Response)

"IF" a man Freely Chooses to ACCEPT Jesus' Offering...
(Mans' Act of Free-Willing-ness)

"THEN" the The Lord Jesus "Will GIVE" the man His GIFT of SALVATION.
(Lords Act)

"IF" a man REJECTS the Lords OFFERING;
"THEN".. the man has Rejected Receivings, the Lords Gift of Salvation.
(Man's Choice, Act, Lords Response)

IOW- The Lord has a Gift for All, and Reveals What the Gift IS...but the individual Must choose To Accept the Offering, BEFORE the individual Will Receive The Lords Offered Gift.
(The Lords Gift is Forced on No one. A man MUST Choose to Accept the Offering...or He Will NOT Receive the Gift)

John 6

1. [51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Heb 10

1. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through theoffering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

A man who does Not Accept OR Reject The Lords Offering??

Matt: 12

1. [30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Just saying;
Something OFFERED, to you, IS yours To Take.
If you Take the OFFERING, Then you Receive a Blessing of A Prepared Gift.
If you Reject the OFFERING, Then you do Not Receive the Gift prepared for you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

We somewhat differ.

Jesus Came to Earth to Accomplish several things. Highlighting;
* To GIVE His Flesh, For the life of all men.
^ He Did.
(That was Jesus' ACT)

* To OFFER TO all men, an "IF" / "THEN" proposal.
^ He Did.
(that was Jesus' TEACHING)

All men Can ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus' OFFER.
(Man's Response)

"IF" a man Freely Chooses to ACCEPT Jesus' Offering...
(Mans' Act of Free-Willing-ness)

"THEN" the The Lord Jesus "Will GIVE" the man His GIFT of SALVATION.
(Lords Act)

"IF" a man REJECTS the Lords OFFERING;
"THEN".. the man has Rejected Receivings, the Lords Gift of Salvation.
(Man's Choice, Act, Lords Response)

IOW- The Lord has a Gift for All, and Reveals What the Gift IS...but the individual Must choose To Accept the Offering, BEFORE the individual Will Receive The Lords Offered Gift.
(The Lords Gift is Forced on No one. A man MUST Choose to Accept the Offering...or He Will NOT Receive the Gift)

John 6

1. [51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Heb 10

1. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through theoffering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

A man who does Not Accept OR Reject The Lords Offering??

Matt: 12

1. [30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Just saying;
Something OFFERED, to you, IS yours To Take.
If you Take the OFFERING, Then you Receive a Blessing of A Prepared Gift.
If you Reject the OFFERING, Then you do Not Receive the Gift prepared for you.

Glory to God,
Taken

I agree.
How's that for a miracle?

 

[Tong2020]

We somewhat differ.

Jesus Came to Earth to Accomplish several things. Highlighting;
* To GIVE His Flesh, For the life of all men.
^ He Did.
(That was Jesus' ACT)

* To OFFER TO all men, an "IF" / "THEN" proposal.
^ He Did.
(that was Jesus' TEACHING)

All men Can ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus' OFFER.
(Man's Response)

"IF" a man Freely Chooses to ACCEPT Jesus' Offering...
(Mans' Act of Free-Willing-ness)

"THEN" the The Lord Jesus "Will GIVE" the man His GIFT of SALVATION.
(Lords Act)

"IF" a man REJECTS the Lords OFFERING;
"THEN".. the man has Rejected Receivings, the Lords Gift of Salvation.
(Man's Choice, Act, Lords Response)

IOW- The Lord has a Gift for All, and Reveals What the Gift IS...but the individual Must choose To Accept the Offering, BEFORE the individual Will Receive The Lords Offered Gift.
(The Lords Gift is Forced on No one. A man MUST Choose to Accept the Offering...or He Will NOT Receive the Gift)

John 6

1. [51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Heb 10

1. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through theoffering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

A man who does Not Accept OR Reject The Lords Offering??

Matt: 12

1. [30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Just saying;
Something OFFERED, to you, IS yours To Take.
If you Take the OFFERING, Then you Receive a Blessing of A Prepared Gift.
If you Reject the OFFERING, Then you do Not Receive the Gift prepared for you.

Glory to God,
Taken

We differ somewhat.

God's will, purpose, pleasure, and glory, is to save mankind, not make an offer of salvation to mankind. Jesus came as part of God's saving work of mankind, and not of an offer of salvation to man. To most, it looks as though God is offering them salvation, because in His saving work of mankind, the will of man is in some way and sense involved in the process. And as such, to the man, it would seem to be an offer rather than not.

That part of history written in scriptures about God saving Noah and family, is a picture of that. God did not offer Noah and family salvation. Rather it is God's will, purpose, pleasure and glory, that He saved Noah and family. And how did He do that? Evidently, God did not do it any other way which the natural man could think about that He could have done supernaturally and miraculously because He is omnipotent. He had done it in the way of faith. He caused His word to come to Noah. So that Noah, by the hearing of Noah of His word, Noah might have faith. And it is in this sense that Noah's will is involved. And so it was, that Noah had faith, and through faith he believed unto obedience and did everything that was told him. But not that Noah was saved by that at all, for his being safe in the ark during the flood was still in the hands of God. So without going further into too much detail about that, the point here is that Noah's will was not about accepting an offer to be saved, but about the having of faith, through which God saves him. And indeed through faith, God saved Noah.

Tong
R0945

 

[JunChosen]

Ya....you are not fooling anybody.
This is an international forum. Worldwide input. If I say I have never seen a Calvinist female on this forum. People here might not know why. But you and I do.

Now you're acting like God knowing all things It's no wonder you do not understand the things of because you rely on your wisdom! Whether you believe or not I am in these forums to witness as I have been commanded. Yes most people in these forums are here as well as you,, just like to debate to show their intelligence which according to God is nothing more than dung. And, whatever intelligence you think you possess you are wrong about me physically or spiritually (so much for acting like God). And, to prove you are wrong and assuming, I am a male and not a female as you claim.

May the Lord give you wisdom and take away your hate for others.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

We somewhat differ.

Jesus Came to Earth to Accomplish several things. Highlighting;
* To GIVE His Flesh, For the life of all men.
^ He Did.
(That was Jesus' AC

INCORRECT! Jesus came to earth to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21)

* To OFFER TO all men, an "IF" / "THEN" proposal.
^ He Did.
(that was Jesus' TEACHING)

INCORRECT! Jesus declared in John 6:44 "No man can come to me except the Father draw him..." Which by the way, is the only criteria by which man can be saved!

All men Can ACCEPT or REJECT Jesus' OFFER.
(Man's Response)

INCORRECT! Man can neither accept nor reject Jesus because he is spiritually dead. A corpse in and of himself has no life within him.

Sorry to say we do not somewhat differ! WE totally disagree!

To God Be The Glory

 

[BreadOfLife]

INCORRECT! Jesus came to earth to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21)

INCORRECT! Jesus declared in John 6:44 "No man can come to me except the Father draw him..." Which by the way, is the only criteria by which man can be saved!

INCORRECT! Man can neither accept nor reject Jesus because he is spiritually dead. A corpse in and of himself has no life within him.

Sorry to say we do not somewhat differ! WE totally disagree!

To God Be The Glory

To say that God coerces some to accept His gift makes Him a Cosmic Rapist who forces his love on Some - and a monster who tosses the rest into Hell at His pleasure.

The Bible states explicitly:
1 Tim. 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires ALL PEOPLE TO BE SAVED and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

EVERYBODY at some point is given the chance to follow God - but NOT everybody will accept the offer.
If this is NOT the case - then the above-referenced verse is a LIE.

God doesn't lie - MEN do.

 

[JunChosen]

CONTEXT, my friend .

Sure it's about context! Now read Psalms 14:1 very, very carefully. It declares the fool said in his heart... myself have used this verse to declare there is no God but it is false for we know there is a God. Likewise, Psalms 14 is alien to Romans 3.

And a gift MUST be accepted - or it's never given.
A gift requires a RESPONSE.

A spiritually dead person can not respond to the Gospel call because a spiritually dead person has no life in himself!

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

EVERYBODY at some point is given the chance to follow God - but NOT everybody will accept the offer.
If this is NOT the case - then the above-referenced verse is a LIE

1 Timothy 2:3-4 must be read in light of 1 Corinthians 15:22, John 6:44,39, and Romans 3:10.

God doesn't lie - MEN do.

Indeed God does not lie, but are you aware of this? I mean, anyone can say what they want and not mean it.

To God Be The Glory

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sure it's about context! Now read Psalms 14:1 very, very carefully. It declares the fool said in his heart... myself have used this verse to declare there is no God but it is false for we know there is a God. Likewise, Psalms 14 is alien to Romans 3.
A spiritually dead person can not respond to the Gospel call because a spiritually dead person has no life in himself!

To God Be The Glory

Precisely - but God gives EVERYBODY the grace to accept His call.

He wills the salvation of ALL and that ALL come to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16).
SOME accept it and receive it - and others reject it.

God does NOT withhold that grace from some.

 

[BreadOfLife]

1 Timothy 2:3-4 must be read in light of 1 Corinthians 15:22, John 6:44,39, and Romans 3:10.

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also IN CHRIST shall all be made alive.
Those IN CHRIST.
This doesn't say that everybody wasn't given the chance to BE in Christ.

John 6:44
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."
EXACTLY.
We cannot come to Him without the grace to believe.
This does NOT say that everybosy isn't given that grace at one point por another. Some accept it - and some refuse it.

John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
This does NOT say that some won't leave by their OWN doing.
It simply says that HE won't lose them.

Rom. 3:10
As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
I already warned you about taking this verse OUT of context. This is NOT talking about EVERY person who ever lived. It's talking about the wicked and the foolish.

As I educated you before - "It is written" refers to the fact that this is talking about Psalm 14.
In verse 5 of that Psalm - it says that God keeps company with the RIGHTEOUS.

1Indeed God does not lie, but are you aware of this? I mean, anyone can say what they want and not mean it.

To God Be The Glory

I'm completely aware of it.
I don't think that Calvinists are . . .

 

[kcnalp]

If anyone actually believes water baptism is equal to the Blood of Jesus, pity you on Judgment Day. ONLY the Blood washes away sins.

 

[JunChosen]

He wills the salvation of ALL and that ALL come to a knowledge of the truth...
SOME accept it and receive it - and others reject it.

When God wills a thing you can be sure it will come to pass, including Matthew 1:21, John 3:16, John 6:44, and Romans 6:23.

Since you cannot understand what has been declared by scriptures, it looks like I'll have to go by way of an illustration, and if you still don't "get it" it is because you are blind.

SALVATION AS SEEN IN THE RAISING OF LAZARUS!

When Jesus arrived at the tomb of Lazarus, He cried with a loud voice: "Lazarus come forth!"
Could Lazarus hear the command since he was dead for our days? Of course not! But he did come forth, what had to have happened? Well Jesus had to go into the tomb and give him life, ears to hear, eyes to see, and mouth to speak.

Likewise:

1) As Lazarus was physically dead, so are we spiritually dead. We need the Lord Jesus to intervene in our lives to give us life. Eternal life that is.
2) As Lazarus was physically deaf, so are we spiritually deaf in that we cannot hear the Gospel.
3) As Lazarus was physically blind, so are we spiritually blind to the Gospel.
4) As Lazarus was physically dumb had no mouth to speak, so are we spiritually dumb whereas before conversion we spoke the language of the world now we speak the language of heaven.

If God does not intervene in our lives we will never become saved. So I ask where is your free will, faith, and acceptance in all this in the illustration above?

To God Be The Glory