Salvation Through Baptism ???

[JunChosen]

To all,

Indeed there is only one baptism, and THAT IS NOT WATER BAPTISM!

Baptism means "wash" or "cleanse."

Titus 3:5 reads:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,"

To God Be The Glory

 

[brian100]

See eventually you abandon God's word.. of water baptism. This guy used to be evang. I showed him the shroud and he deleted it.

 

[JunChosen]

See eventually you abandon God's word.. of water baptism. This guy used to be evang. I showed him the shroud and he deleted it.

Where can I find where you spoke about the shroud?

 

[Mr C]

Nothing in the passage says anything about immersion. (BTW, you meant verse 33.)

(Acts 8:26-4) (Col.2:11,12) (Rom.6:3-6)

(Col.2:11,12) tells us WHEN sins are forgiven and HOW.

During the burial, the lord does the work (an operation) without hands in which men are forgiven of their sins.

It's in (Rom.6:3-6) that we see the NEW LIFE comes at the point of the burial and raising up out of something.

There is not one drop of water in either passage, alone enough to immerse anyone in it!



And yet, Jesus follows up with what He says with... "That which is BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" Tell me, what child is "born of the Sprit" and not "Flesh"?



If it proves anything, God made the oceans so we could preach to and convert dinosaurs so we could immerse them! John Kitto travelled the Holy Land and observed that "many waters" Aenon were "many springs," none of which were deep enough to immerse someone. And I would assert that if someone was by an ocean, it would no more prove or assert immersion.



No it wasn't! The question was physical birth and rebirth. Jesus answered the question.



Baptism by the numbers

After counting all of the references to the term BAPTIZO and its derivatives in the Greek New Testament, we find that the term is used 131 times, and after excluding the repeats from the synoptic Gospels, we see that the term is used 99 independent times. Of all of these passages, fewer than twenty can be appealed to in the effort to prove that baptism is essential to salvation. “The words salvation, faith, repent, forgive, sin, save, wash, justify, sanctify, clean, believe, purge, remission, redeem, blood, reconcile, and kindred words that are used of redemption, are used 3,322 times in Scripture and not once is water baptism stated as being necessary in any redemptive process before sins can be remitted. On the other hand, hundreds of Scriptures require blood, faith in the blood, and a simple confession of sins to God to have sins remitted, but never is baptism once hinted as an essential to redemption.” Finis Dake, God's Plan for Man, page 538.

Are you willing to weigh the sum of God's word and draw a conclusion based on all God said on a particular subject? (Ps.119:160) (Mt.4:4)/. Or is the water "god" more important to you?



Paul preached Christ and that "Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." 1 Cor. 1:17. He also proceeded that comment with... "I thank God that I baptized none of you...." !!!! (v.14). "Lest the cross of Christ be of none effect..."!!! (v.17).



He never left the jail but was baptized where he was, Acts 16:27, 28, 33, and 35. He was baptized because he was already saved! "What must I do to be saved? (30) Answer: "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved."! (v. 31). Notice that Paul did not say... "Do the hokey-pokey, keep the Sabbath, get circumcised, or even get Baptized... and you shall be saved"!



Baptism is "in reference to", or "because of" the remission of sins.



By the Holy Spirit, and not by water, which is nowhere mentioned in either verse!

If this is Spirit Baptism one is placed into the Spirit and raised up out of the Spirit.

What good would that do?

I am pretty sure water in (Jn 3:23) is no doubt referring to baptism.

The text says that very thing.

John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there.

 

[Mr C]

Johns baptism was in water and for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4). So why is it so difficult for people today to accept that baptism in water is for the remission of sins? That is what (Acts 2:38 ; 22:16) teaches.

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4).

Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, (Acts 2:38)

arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, (Acts 22:16)

Sins were not washed away till the point of baptism.

We find an individual being baptized in (Acts 8:13,26-40).

Simon and the Ethiopian eunuch.

They were baptized IN WATER (Acts 8:38,39)

they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water,

(Acts 8) is about how some were saved.

 

[JunChosen]

Sins were not washed away till the point of baptism.

If the above is true, how then can you reconcile it with the thief on the cross? He was NOT baptized yet Jesus said, "Today thou shalt be with me in paradise."

Also read and study Titus 3:5 to really get the gist of baptism.

To God Be The Glory

I suggest you read and study 1 Peter 3:21 very, very carefully.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Mr C]

If the above is true, how then can you reconcile it with the thief on the cross? He was NOT baptized yet Jesus said, "Today thou shalt be with me in paradise."

Also read and study Titus 3:5 to really get the gist of baptism.

To God Be The Glory

I suggest you read and study 1 Peter 3:21 very, very carefully.

To God Be The Glory

Can you prove the thief had not been baptized?


The cross stands between the OT and the NT.

*OT - T - NT

The thief was saved under the OT Law. To ask why the thief wasn't baptized is to ask why wasn't Abraham baptized. To ask that question proves one does not understand the distinction between the OT Law and the NT Law.

One way to deal quickly with his question is to identify what one is baptized INTO.

(Rom.6:3,4) says we are baptized INTO CHRIST DEATH.

This is important b/c that is where one contacts the blood of Jesus (Acts 20:28) (Mt.26:28).

How could the thief have done this BEFORE Christ DIED? (Heb.7:12 ; 8:6-13 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10)

(Dan 2:44) (Jer.31:31-34)(Isa.2:1-5) (Joel 2:28) (Luke 24:47-49) (Acts 1:5,8) All point to the establishement of the New Covenant (New Testament / The Church / The Kingdom).
(Ac. 2:1-4)


NT baptism (in water) was not in effect until (Acts 2:38,47).


I hope this helps.



Thanks

 

[brian100]

Where can I find where you spoke about the shroud?

Right here.
Shroud of Turin: Absolute proof the man seen in it is Jesus Christ

 

[Mr C]

Another point is that while Jesus was on the earth He could forgive sins any way He wanted.

Mt 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins,

 

[marksman]

And as I have said, since the beginning, the salvation of God is by God's grace through faith. That is the way of the Lord concerning the salvation of man yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The salvation of God was never through baptism in any way shape or form in the past from the beginning until before the cross, so I find no reason why that should change after the cross. I can see that you don't refute any of that. So then, the truth remains that salvation is not through baptism, which answers the question title of this thread.

I also said in my post #135, and I quote:

Baptism is not the gospel, and so it is not what the apostles preached, nor should it be what the Christian should preach. And if baptism is not the gospel, then it is NOT the power of God to salvation for any man.


Why? Are you suggesting that a theological qualification gained at an accredited College is a requirement for one before one could understand scriptures? If so, who said and made that so? Was it God or some men or you?

You speak of anointing from God regarding the matter of teaching the scriptures. I am a Christian and regarding the anointing, here's what scriptures say.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

Tong
R0690

Sorry Tong but talking to you is like talking to a brick wall so I am signing out. Have a nice unbaptized day.

 

[Mr C]

Right here.
Shroud of Turin: Absolute proof the man seen in it is Jesus Christ

*When Jesus returns every eye will see him (Rev. 1:7).

I haven't seen Jesus yet.

What does that say about the man and the shroud?

 

[Mr C]

BLM = Babies Lives Matter

We should write this on our streets.

 

[brian100]

I haven't seen Jesus yet. What does that say about the man and the shroud?

I saw Luke if that helps your faith.. but he had a pearl rosary in his r-pocket. I watched God change time once. One time a girl saw me killed, but I wasn't killed and it freaked her out. I've seen a lot of crazy things... and knowing what Heaven can do was amazing to me. You can die and God can undo it.. and nobody sees it. And if they do see it.. its a memory not a real event.

When they come you find yourself all alone and its quiet!! And a person is watching you.

That's why you should get your Baptism right!

The dumb Atheist above video will find a place with no love.. that's too horrible!

 

[marksman]

If the above is true, how then can you reconcile it with the thief on the cross? He was NOT baptized yet Jesus said, "Today thou shalt be with me in paradise."

Also read and study Titus 3:5 to really get the gist of baptism.

To God Be The Glory

I suggest you read and study 1 Peter 3:21 very, very carefully.

To God Be The Glory

And I suggest that you learn how to exegete the scriptures. You do not under any circumstances produce a doctrine based on one verse of scripture or one incident. The best commentary on the bible is the Bible so when you study any subject you study EVERY verse that deals with it. Until you do that you do not have a doctrine. You have a proof text which can say whatever you want it to say.

And as there are numerous verses on the subject, not just vague ones that you have quoted, there is no shortage of material.

 

[marksman]

I saw Luke if that helps your faith.. but he had a pearl rosary in his r-pocket. I watched God change time once. One time a girl saw me killed, but I wasn't killed and it freaked her out. I've seen a lot of crazy things... and knowing what Heaven can do was amazing to me. You can die and God can undo it.. and nobody sees it. And if they do see it.. its a memory not a real event.

When they come you find yourself all alone and its quiet!! And a person is watching you.

That's why you should get your Baptism right!

The dumb Atheist above video will find a place with no love.. that's too horrible!

*&^%$#@*&^%$#@

 

[marksman]

*When Jesus returns every eye will see him (Rev. 1:7).

I haven't seen Jesus yet.

What does that say about the man and the shroud?

Don't worry Mr. C. The Catholics have got to have their little make-believe nonsense to hang their ideas on as without them, how could they believe.

 

[JunChosen]

And I suggest that you learn how to exegete the scriptures. You do not under any circumstances produce a doctrine based on one verse of scripture or one incident. The best commentary on the bible is the Bible so when you study any subject you study EVERY verse that deals with it. Until you do that you do not have a doctrine. You have a proof text which can say whatever you want it to say.

I know too well what you have commented that is to compare scripture with scripture to get context however, in the case of the thief on the cross, there is no other scripture to compare with, except we see the very God of the universe exercising His sovereign authority to save anyone He wishes. After all salvation is of God!

For example, the term "thousand three hundred and five and thirty days" in Daniel 12:12 is not found anywhere else in Scripture, yet I know the interpretation of it. Do you?

To God Be The Glory

 

[mailmandan]

Hi mailmandan,

I think you would agree that we must keep His commandments, obey what He and the Apostles taught to be saved?

There is a difference between obeying a command/what the Apostles taught in order to become saved and obeying a command/what the Apostles taught after we have been saved. Must keep His commandments/must obey everything the Apostles taught in order to become saved takes us into salvation by works.

Acts 5:29: But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men".

John 14:15: “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

1 John 2:3: And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

Luke 11:28: But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Believers do not keep His commandments in order to become saved, but because we already are saved. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not "keep" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Jesus final commandment before he ascended into heaven was "go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,..."

In Matthew 28:19-20, we have a command from Jesus to go and make disciples of all nations, and baptize them. However, it does not say here that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. The same command also includes the clause "teaching them to observe all things" that Christ has commanded. If we are to assume that baptism is essential to salvation, then by consistent interpretation of the context, you would say that "absolute obedience to all of Christ's commands" which follows having been saved through faith is also necessary for salvation, which takes us straight into salvation by works. Nobody perfectly obeys Christ 100% of the time. We are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time. If we truly believe in Christ unto salvation, then we would not refuse to be water baptized.

Peter said to "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Will we be saved if we refuse to do what they said?

Jesus draws the line in the sand on who will be saved and who will not be saved in John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Behold]

To all,

Indeed there is only one baptism, and THAT IS NOT WATER BAPTISM!

Baptism means "wash" or "cleanse."

Titus 3:5 reads:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,"

To God Be The Glory

Paul wrote most of the New Testament.
He gave the Body of Christ 99% of "church Doctrine".
Paul said..."Christ sent me NOT to water Baptize".

If water can save you.. If water can "wash away your sin", then every time you take a shower or bath, you would be born again.

Not quite.

 

[Marymog]

There is a difference between obeying a command/what the Apostles taught in order to become saved and obeying a command/what the Apostles taught after we have been saved. Must keep His commandments/must obey everything the Apostles taught in order to become saved takes us into salvation by works.

Believers do not keep His commandments in order to become saved, but because we already are saved. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not "keep" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Thank you.

You have me a bit confused. You said we are to obey what is taught in order to become saved. I agree with that. But then you use the words “after we have been saved”. Right after that you talk about “salvation by works”.

So my question is: Once a person is “saved” why would they need to do works to be saved?

Curious Mary