Sanctification is not a Process

[marks]

one thing I have noticed about a parable or allegory. Even when jesus spoke. he gave us the interpretation of what it really meant

If we do nto see an interpretation given, we should take it literally

He spoke parables that He didn't interpret. But He said they were parables. Regarding the Parable of the Sower, Jesus said that if they didn't understand that one, how would they understand any of them? I understand that to indicate that the key to understanding the parables is found in that one.

We're told that there was a time after which Jesus only taught the crowds in parables, but to His disciples, He still taught plainly. So we can "rightly divide" by understanding these things.

Much love!

 

[marks]

and its not Christ's faith.. its our faith IN him

Here are some Scriptures I look at regarding this question,

Galatians 2:20 KJV
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 2:16 KJV
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The faith of Christ, "Christ" is the genetive case, meaning faith that is possessed by Christ, or comes from Christ. Either way to me it's the same. Faith that has Jesus as it's source, not me. Jesus, the originator and finisher of our faith.

Beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, we are being transformed into that same image, out of glory, into glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord. As we see Jesus in us, we are being changed to be like Him. When we see Him as He is, we will be fully like Him.

Much love!

 

[mailmandan]

God can give whatever gifts He wants. We walk by faith. One of the gifts spoken of is Faith. Might He give a gift of faith to someone that enables them to walk consistenly in the Spirit? I think so.

Much love!

In 1 Corinthians 12:5-9, we read - There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit.

Romans 12:3 - For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Do you see a larger measure of faith as a special endowment of faith to accomplish certain tasks in ministry?

 

[marks]

In 1 Corinthians 12:5-9, we read - There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit.

Romans 12:3 - For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Do you see a larger measure of faith as a special endowment of faith to accomplish certain tasks in ministry?

I'd say yes, considering that the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each for the profit of all. What He does in me is to make me to serve better, and my service is for the benefit of others.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

Many have been taught that sanctification is a process. But this is a smokescreen.

All religious efforts end the same way.

Learning IS a process, little by little, bit by bit

God CREATED us with;
Ears, Eyes, Mouth, Tongue, Nose, Flesh…
God then MADE those Senses Alive;
For Our ability to Communicate.

God CREATED our BODY’s Life (Blood).
God MADE our Blood pass through our Truth.
God CREATED our MIND to cipher Knowledge.
God MADE our MIND able to process truth and lies.
God CREATED our Natural Spirits Truth in our Hearts.

* God OFFERED mankind a ONCE and FOREVER Option, TO TAKE IT or LEAVE IT;

* “IT”?
For a willing man TO “Heartfully”…

~ Believe IN the Lord God Almighty
~ Confess his Belief
~ Give by Pledge his Body in death UNTO the Lord God Almighty….

~ And in Return the Lord God…WILL…
By His Authority, Power, Making…
Save that mans soul.
Quicken that mans Spirit with Gods SEED.
Reside WithIN that mans Heart.
Forever Be With that man and Forever that man With God.

~ The requirement …IS the man MUST be Naturally Bodily ALIVE (Flesh and Blood) to MAKE his Hearts Choice.

Absolutely Agree….
Not a Process. Is a ACT of an Individuals FREEWILL Choice.
Take Gods Offering or Not.

God is Not fooled…He knows, every mans True Hearts Thoughts.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Here are some Scriptures I look at regarding this question,

Galatians 2:20 KJV
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 2:16 KJV
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The faith of Christ, "Christ" is the genetive case, meaning faith that is possessed by Christ, or comes from Christ. Either way to me it's the same. Faith that has Jesus as it's source, not me. Jesus, the originator and finisher of our faith.

Beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, we are being transformed into that same image, out of glory, into glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord. As we see Jesus in us, we are being changed to be like Him. When we see Him as He is, we will be fully like Him.

Much love!

the issue is there are people that claim it is literally the faith of Jesus.. Not our faith

in Greek, Jesus is the genitive noun.. The faith is also in the genitive. In interpretation it would be the faith that Jesus produces.. not his own person faith.

two ways to interpret this.

a more literal and correct translation would be faith that Jesus Christ produces.. which would be the one who has the faith..

to compair the difference when "your faith" is being spoken of.

In matt 9: 22. Jesus told a woman YOUR FAITH

Your is in the genetive case, However, faith is in the nomitive. in other words. it is the woman who owns the faith. or her faith. or the faith of her..

 

[marks]

in Greek, Jesus is the genitive noun.. The faith is also in the genitive. In interpretation it would be the faith that Jesus produces.. not his own person faith.

two ways to interpret this.

I go back to Peter for understanding this.

. . . you, who are kept by the power of God through faith . . .

This faith is God's power working in me. Like, incandescence is electricity's power working in a filament. Faith that Jesus produces, I think that's a good understanding.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Just asking thanks.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I suggest you get off of self and focusing on you and learn to focus on God

Oh my gosh the caterwauling we would have to put up with if Epi said that to YOU!! It would be all, there you go again making it personal, making it about me, giving your opinion of me, can we just stick to scripture, no personal attacks.

 

[Johann]

and its not Christ's faith.. its our faith IN him

That's why I opt out of this discussion...faith in---faith of--Genitive--Is it Objective or Subjective---etc.
Faith of Jesus Christ

A common form for “faith in Christ.”
Difference (διαστολή)
Only by Paul here, Rom_10:12; 1Co_14:7. Better, as Rev., distinction.

Through faith in Jesus Christ (dia pisteōs ̣Iēsoǔ Christou). Intermediate agency (dia) is faith and objective genitive, “in Jesus Christ,” not subjective “of Jesus Christ,” in spite of Haussleiter’s contention for that idea.

The objective nature of faith in Christ is shown in Gal_2:16 by the addition eis Christon Iēsoun episteusamen (we believed in Christ), by tēs eis Christon pisteōs humōn (of your faith in Christ) in Col_2:5, by en pistei tēi en Christōi Iēsou (in faith that in Christ Jesus) in 1Ti_3:13, as well as here by the added words “unto all them that believe” (eis pantas tous pisteuontas) in Jesus, Paul means.
Robertson & Vincent

In the faith which is in Christ Jesus (en pistei tēi en Christōi Iēsou). Pauline phrase again (Act_26:18; Gal_3:26; Col_1:4; Eph_1:15; 2Ti_1:13; 2Ti_3:15).

So I concur with you @Eternally Grateful

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh my gosh the caterwauling we would have to put up with if Epi said that to YOU!! It would be all, there you go again making it personal, making it about me, giving your opinion of me, can we just stick to scripture, no personal attacks.

And as I knew you would. You did it again. Its why I had you on ignore in the first place. Your so hip on defending your Lord Epi so much you will do anything

1. You claimed epi did not say something, or teach something
2. I proved to you he did.
3. Your own words even proved he did. by what you said.

Yet instead of confessing and admitting your wrong.. This is where you turn to attack mode. Its what you all do when your backed to a wall.

PS. Epi has said this to me many times.. All i did was turn it back on him. Because my gospel has nothing to do with me, His has pretty much everything to do with him.

One day I pray you see this.. But I am losing hope after all these years.

either way. Back to ignore you go

 

[Johann]

And as I knew you would. You did it again. Its why I had you on ignore in the first place. Your so hip on defending your Lord Epi so much you will do anything

1. You claimed epi did not say something, or teach something
2. I proved to you he did.
3. Your own words even proved he did. by what you said.

Yet instead of confessing and admitting your wrong.. This is where you turn to attack mode. Its what you all do when your backed to a wall.

PS. Epi has said this to me many times.. All i did was turn it back on him. Because my gospel has nothing to do with me, His has pretty much everything to do with him.

One day I pray you see this.. But I am losing hope after all these years.

either way. Back to ignore you go

I think we should use the ignore feature more often.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think we should use the ignore feature more often.

it would cause alot less heartache

 

[Episkopos]

Doing ministry in the outside world comes with some measure of resistance. But nothing like trying to bring sound doctrine INTO the religious system that has arisen around those who wish the benefits of salvation but refuse to surrender the flesh...instead changing the truth of God into a lie to promote fables about the nature of the gospel and the nature of God Himself.

To reach the God-fearers and God-seekers within any religious group one must break through the outer crust of outer man defiance. And this works both on the macro level and on the individual level. The inner man is imprisoned within the controlling nature of the outer man. The message of the cross is a clarion call to the inner man to have no confidence in the flesh...rather by faith and will...to surrender the body as a living sacrifice...to have the rebellious nature in the flesh dealt with by the power of the cross.

Jesus Himself confronted the outer crust of religious resistance in His time...and suffered for it...and He bids we also show courage, in order to reach those who are willing to be set free from the carnal mind and the control imposed over freedom in Christ. We see the plot of the devil in trying to shift the blame from their own rebellion to God Himself for the death of Jesus, rather than see the true nature of religious dogmatism. The outer man persecutes the inner man. Cain persecutes Abel. Religion persecutes spiritual life.

The truth sets us free. But that truth must be boldly proclaimed to have any effect on those who are under the sway of the new doctrines that have arisen over church history. It is quite natural that the flesh reacts to the truth. This should come as no surprise.

What is needed is some courage in the face of the loud untempered voices that shout down any proclamation of the truth....that puts the outer religious crust at a disadvantage.

The truth can only be put down for so long. And God has a special reward for those who are abused in His name.

Have courage...maintain love...speak the truth...look to God.

Peace

 

[MatthewG]

He spoke parables that He didn't interpret. But He said they were parables. Regarding the Parable of the Sower, Jesus said that if they didn't understand that one, how would they understand any of them? I understand that to indicate that the key to understanding the parables is found in that one.

We're told that there was a time after which Jesus only taught the crowds in parables, but to His disciples, He still taught plainly. So we can "rightly divide" by understanding these things.

Much love!

Prayer in asking God to help understand is good. With the context and narrative of the Bible, it will help to learn the gospel verse by verse, on all four accounts. Profound wisdom and knowledge will be obtained as long as one goes and does so not leaning on themselves. But leaning in on God asking him to help them, and also to ask for help by the spirit. Fellowship is with the Father and the Son. They say like Father like Son, if that is the case, then within believers the spirit of the Son of God is manifested through them as they learn to abide in him.

It’s a process and it is also in the use of effort, and time made to read, and pray and study to learn and grow and know whom is the true and living God and the one whom he had sent is eternal life. Spirit giving life that is built on spiritual principles on the foundation brought forth by the messiah who is the chief cornerstone.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I think we should use the ignore feature more often.

“…if any man is ignorant, let him be ignorant.” (1 Corinthians 14:38)

 

[Lizbeth]

Spoken like a true evolutionist. If only there were missing link people who could attest that after so many decades people were testifying of walking in a miraculous place where there is no sin!

But no such missing link exists. It's as futile as looking for a missing link between an ape and a human. But people still hope to find it one day...

(and that's not the hope of glory spoken of about the "Christ in you" given as sample to spur us to faith and seeking God)

Then there are those who "reckon" themselves to be somewhere they are not. They look at the picture of Hawaii while sitting in the igloo...and experience a "warming" sensation. And that seems enough for them.

But there are a few who read the bible and understand its implications...and seek God's face about it. When the faith in God's ability is full...God then translates that person of faith to be where He is...just like He did with Enoch...although being in Christ means our bodies remain here. This is according to the gospel of the kingdom.

Well, evolutionist is your word, not anyone else's. The bible calls it growth. Even the parable of the talents portrays the concept of growth. What troubles me is this belittlement of things that may not pertain to the pinnacle of all spiritual experience, but nevertheless are biblical and so we assume must be necessary. Why belittle and throw away the day of small beginnings when we should be building on that foundation?

"Reckon" ourselves to be dead to this world is how the apostle was teaching the reader how to regard oneself in regard to earthly life and to be in the spirit. I don't understand why someone would belittle that? Again, that is something we can grow in. Things of earth growing strangely dim as the song says......learning not to put our stock in this life, but in things that are above, being weaned from the things of this world and flesh.

A believer can have some precious experiences with the Lord over the course of their life, but not stay there. It has never occurred to me that one could or should stay in that "realm". I just assumed these things are according to God's will and purpose at the time, and they are rare experiences. You have mentioned being translated into the heavenly kingdom realm but only for two or three days and then you are drawn back by the flesh.....I try hard to understand where a person is coming from in the things they are saying, but I don't know if that is talking about the same thing or not.

Looking at the analogy of the Israelites in the wilderness and yes I believe there is a Jordan river to cross to enter into the Promised Land, which requires full consecration, "consecrate yourselves", and to be "circumcised a second time", but I'm not sure yet how to perceive it all. The story is told in a linear chronological sequence, and obviously it happened to the Israelites that way in real life...... but in the spirit, as a lesson in things of the spirit, everything is not necessarily linear and chronological. Maybe there are areas of our heart and life that are consecrated and other areas that are not yet.....that seems to be what I perceive. Find myself often asking the Lord to get to the roots, and have a hunch that in our growing, the roots of our life and heart are dealt with last and are the most difficult to get to...it's like territory that is the most fiercely guarded. What comes to mind is where Jesus said the strongman has to be bound and then his house can be plundered. I wonder if there is an analogy in the bible for that (maybe one of the battles in the Promised Land?), and am still waiting on the Lord for more understanding and light for all these things, but most of all that He would do it!

 

[Lizbeth]

Doing ministry in the outside world comes with some measure of resistance. But nothing like trying to bring sound doctrine INTO the religious system that has arisen around those who wish the benefits of salvation but refuse to surrender the flesh...instead changing the truth of God into a lie to promote fables about the nature of the gospel and the nature of God Himself.

To reach the God-fearers and God-seekers within any religious group one must break through the outer crust of outer man defiance. And this works both on the macro level and on the individual level. The inner man is imprisoned within the controlling nature of the outer man. The message of the cross is a clarion call to the inner man to have no confidence in the flesh...rather by faith and will...to surrender the body as a living sacrifice...to have the rebellious nature in the flesh dealt with by the power of the cross.

Jesus Himself confronted the outer crust of religious resistance in His time...and suffered for it...and He bids we also show courage, in order to reach those who are willing to be set free from the carnal mind and the control imposed over freedom in Christ. We see the plot of the devil in trying to shift the blame from their own rebellion to God Himself for the death of Jesus, rather than see the true nature of religious dogmatism. The outer man persecutes the inner man. Cain persecutes Abel. Religion persecutes spiritual life.

The truth sets us free. But that truth must be boldly proclaimed to have any effect on those who are under the sway of the new doctrines that have arisen over church history. It is quite natural that the flesh reacts to the truth. This should come as no surprise.

What is needed is some courage in the face of the loud untempered voices that shout down any proclamation of the truth....that puts the outer religious crust at a disadvantage.

The truth can only be put down for so long. And God has a special reward for those who are abused in His name.

Have courage...maintain love...speak the truth...look to God.

Peace

I agree with your second paragraph, but not the first.

What you consider to be false religious doctrine is actually the foundation of our faith and the sole reason you are able to have any ground or reason even to be talking to us "reform types", as opposed to Catholics with whom you admittedly don't even have a basis to begin a discussion about anything. Because thankfully we reform types at least have the LIFE that comes from having that sure foundation.

So, some of us here want to keep that foundation, if you wouldn't mind.....but amen, let's PLEASE move on to talking about that pesky "old man" who draws life from the devil and the wrong tree and didn't get the memo that he is dead and defeated.....and how the Lord can potentially bring us to a place of finally driving a silver stake through its black heart.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with your second paragraph, but not the first.

What you consider to be false religious doctrine is actually the foundation of our faith and the sole reason you are able to have any ground or reason even to be talking to us "reform types", as opposed to Catholics with whom you admittedly don't even have a basis to begin a discussion about anything. Because thankfully we reform types at least have the LIFE that comes from having that sure foundation.

So, some of us here want to keep that foundation, if you wouldn't mind.....but amen, let's PLEASE move on to talking about that pesky "old man" who draws life from the devil and the wrong tree and didn't get the memo that he is dead and defeated.....and how the Lord can potentially bring us to a place of finally driving a silver stake through its black heart.

I likewise agree with your second paragraph but not the first.

BTW The Old Man is not what we are to confront after conversion...we are no longer as we were...although we can actually get worse by becoming religious and being an affront to God. It is the carnal OUTER (or outward) man...that needs to be crucified to liberate the inner man to be joined with God in Christ. With a greater understanding must come a greater humility. Otherwise the outer man will rise up with religious wings as egos.

The foundation is Christ...not Christ in YOU (emphasis on the you). It is wrong to champion Him abiding in you over going to God in order to abide in Christ. It is just another way to avoid seeking the face of God. It's too easy to fool people that the initial grace received at regeneration is all there is. It is too easy to be puffed up in the outer man. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Knowledge puffs up (the outer man), but love edifies (the inner man).

God has engineered the spiritual progression so that those who neglect going to Him (like the 9 lepers out of 10 who were healed by the Lord) ...will go in endless circles in the wilderness walk....and continue that way into eternity, as many who profess to have faith will wander aimlessly in the eternal wilderness of darkness.


Jude 11: Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withers, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.


In the wise that would strike fear...not so the foolish.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And as I knew you would. You did it again. Its why I had you on ignore in the first place. Your so hip on defending your Lord Epi so much you will do anything

1. You claimed epi did not say something, or teach something
2. I proved to you he did.
3. Your own words even proved he did. by what you said.

Yet instead of confessing and admitting your wrong.. This is where you turn to attack mode. Its what you all do when your backed to a wall.

PS. Epi has said this to me many times.. All i did was turn it back on him. Because my gospel has nothing to do with me, His has pretty much everything to do with him.

One day I pray you see this.. But I am losing hope after all these years.

either way. Back to ignore you go

That’s amazing. I’m now more hateful to you than Epi is. You haven’t used ignore feature on him!