Prove from the Word of God what you allege. Otherwise, I will simply believe this is your opinion without fact!
Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man
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Prove from the Word of God what you allege. Otherwise, I will simply believe this is your opinion without fact!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Hell is real! But…..the topic can be confusing, because of that the Jehovah's Witnesses and others try to use the confusion to deny it’s existence. But Hell is real…..so let’s straighten this out. Hear are some facts….
1. Hell is not mentioned in the Old Testament.
2. The understanding of an eternal fiery place of eternal punishment did not exist during the Old Testament period.
3. Some Christians did not understand why Hell was not in the Old Testament.
4. So they put it there with some of the older translational processes.
5. Some times they used the word Hades. Hades is a Greek word, it cannot be in a Hebrew text.... wrong time period. Hades is a Greek god that reigned over an underworld of the same name. No fire but kind of like a spiritual prison.
6. Hell was new information in the New Testament so there was no word for an eternal fiery place of punishment. The word Hell comes out in the 8th century….Anglo-Saxon-German.
7. Because there was no word for Hell Yeshua and the Apostles referenced to it in different ways…. explanations and examples like Gehenna. They also used the Greek word Hades and changed what it meant. This was not uncommon, some call it Christian Greek. The Greek language and culture did not have Christian terms or concepts. So Yeshua and the Apostles improvised using words and modifying the meaning. Like I said, Hades is a Greek god that reigned over an underworld of the same name.
8. Hell is real!
Note: The word Hell did not exist until the 8th century AD. So the word Hell cannot be in the scriptures. Where you see the word Gehenna below, it may say Hell in your Bible but if you look up the actual word in the Scriptures a lot of the times it Gehenna.
Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the Gehenna of fire.
Matthew 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into Gehenna. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into Gehenna.
Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:50 And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of Gehenna as yourselves.
Matthew 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to Gehenna?
Matthew 24:51 And will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to Gehenna, to the unquenchable fire.
Mark 9:45 And if your foot offend you, cut if off: it is better to you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into Gehenna, into the fire that never shall be quenched.
Mark 9:48 where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.
Luke 3:17 His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
Luke 12:5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into Gehenna. Yes, I tell you, fear him!
Luke 16:19-31 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
2nd Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into Tartarus and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; Tartarus means deep abyss.
Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, they serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Revelation 1:18 And the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
Revelation 14:10 He also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:12-15--- 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
"For by him *all things* were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible..." (1Colossians 1:16).
That is explicit.
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Gray_Joy
Member
I've watched videos featuring Exorcist Priests.
One Priest said,many think so called possessed people are actually exhibiting symptoms of the mentally ill.
But,when someone levitates off a bed,or walks up a wall,you know your dealing with something else.
lol I'd agree .
One Priest said,many think so called possessed people are actually exhibiting symptoms of the mentally ill.
But,when someone levitates off a bed,or walks up a wall,you know your dealing with something else.
lol I'd agree .
Angels defined 'messengers' or humans of Old, living in the time of Noah before the flood from the linage of Seth through whom men began to call upon the name of the Lord. The entire chapter of 2 Pe 2 refers not to angels of God who had fallen, but men who knew of God and called upon His name, but departing from the LORD these sons of God turned to wickedness and took for themselves daughters of the sons of men (unbelievers) and through the children born to them the whole world would have become utterly corrupt and polluted through sin if God had not intervened, sending the flood to destroy them all except for Noah and his family. Neither 2 Pe 2, nor Jude 6 are referring to fallen angels. But to human messengers of God (men) who were sons of God but did not keep that position from God, but who through sinfulness and lust of the flesh forsake God. These are human messengers reserved in everlasting chains of darkness/death awaiting the judgment day.
2 Peter 2:1-6 (KJV) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
Genesis 4:25-26 (KJV) And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
Genesis 6:1-2 (KJV) And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
The eternal fire, the second death is not reserved only for the devil, but also for his messengers, not angels, but demonic spirits residing within every human that dies in unbelief. That's why John tells us that only those whose names are found written in the book of life overcome the lake of fire that is the second death for humans. The dead who are not found written in the book of life shall be cast into the eternal flames with "the great dragon .... that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan."
Revelation 20:15 (KJV) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
When Christ says He saw Satan fall from heaven it is referring to his fall from power (heaven) that He foreknew would come to pass through His cross and resurrection when Satan became a defeated foe.
John 12:31-32 (KJV) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
John 16:11 (KJV) Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Hebrews 2:14 (KJV) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
1 John 3:8 (KJV) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Falling from heaven was to be stripped of his power to hold Gentiles in bondage to fear of death after the cross and resurrection. Satan was not literally in the abode or dwelling place of God called heaven. Because evil cannot dwell with God, nor tarry in His sight.
Psalm 5:4 (KJV) For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
Psalm 101:7 (KJV) He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.
He certainly possessed a spirit of evil, just as every human in unbelief also does, we are all wicked from birth and of the spirit (liar/deciever/murderer) of evil.
Psalm 58:3 (KJV) The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Romans 3:11-12 (KJV) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
How are they spirit beings, but not human? According to the Bible spirit is unseen unless manifested through human flesh.
But we don't gain full understanding unless we search the whole council or Word of God, both Old and New Testaments are to be studied together for full enlightenment or understanding. Have you ever considered how the Old Testament concealed is through the New Testament revealed?
From the OP:
attributes of personality. If it can be proven that something has all three of these attributes, then that something is a personality. These
three attributes are: intellect, emotion, and will.
A. Intellect
“Do demons have intellect?” The answer is, “Yes.” This is evident in six ways: first, demons know who Jesus is (Mk. 1:24); secondly, demons
know their own future doom (Mat. 8:28-29); thirdly, demons knew both Jesus and Paul (Acts 16:16-17; 19:15); fourthly, demons know that
God is one (Jas. 2:19); fifth, demons have a counterfeit system of doctrine (I Tim. 4:1 3); and sixth, demons have the ability to communicate by speech (Lk. 4:34-35, 41; 8:28-31). Very clearly, demons do have intellect, the first attribute of personality.
B. Emotion
“Do demons have emotions?” The answer is, “Yes.” This can be seen in two ways: first, they have the emotion of fierceness and anger (Mat.
8:28); secondly, they have the emotion of fear (Mat. 8:29; Jas. 2:19). So demons do have the second attribute, emotion.
C. Will
“Do demons have will?” Again, the answer is, “Yes.” And this can be seen in three ways: first, they have the will to make requests (Mat. 8:31, Lk. 8:32); secondly, they have the will to obey commands and orders (Mk. 1:27; Lk. 4:35-36); and thirdly, they have the will to leave a person, seek a new place to live or to return to the place where they formerly lived (Mat. 12:43-45). All of these are evidence of the exercise of will.
Demons do have all three attributes of personality, intellect, emotion, and will, and this shows that demons have personality.
D. Personal Pronouns
There is one other way that it can be proven that demons have personality. When the New Testament speaks of demons, it uses the personal pronoun. It never refers to a demon as an “it,” which would be natural if demons were mere emanations. Instead, the text uses the pronouns we, us, they, your, I, and me in dealing with demons (Mk. 5:6-13; Lk. 8:28-30). So these personal pronouns, in addition to the attributes of intellect, emotion, and will, clearly show that demons are real personalities.
Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man
and'Are demons merely emanations, or influences or powers? Or does the Bible teach that demons have personalities?' There are three
attributes of personality. If it can be proven that something has all three of these attributes, then that something is a personality. These
three attributes are: intellect, emotion, and will.
A. Intellect
“Do demons have intellect?” The answer is, “Yes.” This is evident in six ways: first, demons know who Jesus is (Mk. 1:24); secondly, demons
know their own future doom (Mat. 8:28-29); thirdly, demons knew both Jesus and Paul (Acts 16:16-17; 19:15); fourthly, demons know that
God is one (Jas. 2:19); fifth, demons have a counterfeit system of doctrine (I Tim. 4:1 3); and sixth, demons have the ability to communicate by speech (Lk. 4:34-35, 41; 8:28-31). Very clearly, demons do have intellect, the first attribute of personality.
B. Emotion
“Do demons have emotions?” The answer is, “Yes.” This can be seen in two ways: first, they have the emotion of fierceness and anger (Mat.
8:28); secondly, they have the emotion of fear (Mat. 8:29; Jas. 2:19). So demons do have the second attribute, emotion.
C. Will
“Do demons have will?” Again, the answer is, “Yes.” And this can be seen in three ways: first, they have the will to make requests (Mat. 8:31, Lk. 8:32); secondly, they have the will to obey commands and orders (Mk. 1:27; Lk. 4:35-36); and thirdly, they have the will to leave a person, seek a new place to live or to return to the place where they formerly lived (Mat. 12:43-45). All of these are evidence of the exercise of will.
Demons do have all three attributes of personality, intellect, emotion, and will, and this shows that demons have personality.
D. Personal Pronouns
There is one other way that it can be proven that demons have personality. When the New Testament speaks of demons, it uses the personal pronoun. It never refers to a demon as an “it,” which would be natural if demons were mere emanations. Instead, the text uses the pronouns we, us, they, your, I, and me in dealing with demons (Mk. 5:6-13; Lk. 8:28-30). So these personal pronouns, in addition to the attributes of intellect, emotion, and will, clearly show that demons are real personalities.
I have dealt with devils who "inhabit humans." And yes, they do "desire to inhabit physical human beings" to act out their wicked nature (and ultimately to destroy their host).
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I disagree....2nd Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into Tartarus and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; Tartarus means deep abyss.
And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—
These verses are Talking about Angels that were cast out....In other words fallen angels.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The Bible does not speak of fallen angels! That opinion must be read into the Bible because it does not come from the Bible. It was not angels of God that were cast out of heaven by Michael and His angels. It was angels that are demonic spirit messengers of the dragon that were cast down to the earth.
Revelation 12:9 (KJV) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Where? Give the verses that describe fallen angels of God! Since angels of God are ministering spirits, sent to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation, show the verse/verses that tell us that some of the angels of God are fallen through disobedience and become Satan/devils/demons? This folklore/fable does not come FROM the Bible but must be read INTO the Bible.
Hebrews 1:7 (KJV) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Hebrews 1:13-14 (KJV) But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I already did.....
2nd Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into Tartarus and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; Tartarus means deep abyss.
And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—Jude 1:6
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