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Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by Groundzero, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. Insight

    Insight New Member

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    Not one person has ever proved from Gen 1-3 this demonic being was in the garden. All you can prove is a serpent who was cunning than the beasts of the field...and don’t forget the serpent was made by the Lord. Gen 3:1


    The adversary is introduced for 3 chapters and the remaining 39 chapters not a mention. The Lord bougtht the evil upon Job which leaves me thinking what did your supernatural being do to Job?

    Are you able to prove this demonic being "messed" with Christ?

    Where did this demonic being 'mess" with Peter?

    This post is utter and total rot!

    Your imagination has got the better of you; maybe you have been watching too many Hollywood movies or just decieved by the doctrines of men. Whatever it is you cannot show these "attacks" on Adam & Eve, Job, Peter, or Jesus.

    It is no light matter to tamper with the Word of Yahweh of Hosts.

  2. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Rev 12:9
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Rev 20:2
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    Pretty plain to me.

    Matt 4:1-11
    1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
    2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He was afterward an hungred.
    3 And when the tempter came to Him, he said, If Thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
    4 But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
    5 Then the devil taketh Him up into the holy city, and setteth Him on a pinnacle of the temple,
    6 And saith unto Him, If thou be the Son of God, cast Thyself down: for it is written, He shall give His angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
    7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
    8 Again, the devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
    9 And saith unto Him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
    10 Then saith Jesus unto Him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve.
    11 Then the devil leaveth Him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto Him.

    Mark 8:31-33
    31 And He began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
    32 And He spake that saying openly. And Peter took Him, and began to rebuke Him.
    33 But when He had turned about and looked on His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind Me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
  3. Insight

    Insight New Member

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    Is it a real dragon Veteran? would it look something like this?

  4. Comm.Arnold

    Comm.Arnold New Member

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    Interesting picture Insight, reminds me of a painting I can't remember the name of maybe someone can tell me. It has heavenly angels beating back fallen angels that have disfigured from there evil deeds. They all seem to have fish heads or lizard toungues or something of that makeup it would make sense that this happened to the evil one or at least make sense to the authors and artists of that day.
  5. Insight

    Insight New Member

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    Hi Comm,

    I despise mocking Veteran's teachings, but his fairy tales get the better of me.

    It’s a weakness I am yet to overcome.

  6. Comm.Arnold

    Comm.Arnold New Member

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    Oh you were being sarcastic ? It's ok there seems to be a spirit that causes a lot of soreness on this forum. I don't want to balame game but I think we all know who it is. I'm not going to lie Ive seen a goat like creature right in my face before it had me paralysed its kinda freaked me out and Ive been open to the possibility of satan taking on the form of a dragon or something else ever since.

    Ill pray for you brother. :wub:
  7. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    People that are sarcastic tend to be prone to suffer depression.......so that's not a good sign.
  8. Comm.Arnold

    Comm.Arnold New Member

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    I don't know don't get me started on the concept of depression. Some people think it doesn't really exist, does the bible ever say we will feel good 100% of the time ?
  9. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    The Bible does not say that Christians have any reason to be depressed, and we don't see in the Bible where Christians were constantly suffering from depression.

    WISDOM CALLED New Member

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    People are still at war with themselves and other nations aren't they?

    The biblical 'synagog of satan'. First the people have to understand that hasatan in Judaism means 'adversary', 'accuser', 'opponent' of all that is holy and pure.

    In this timeline, bankers that support Shariah law and finance would fit into that category. As would any person that oppresses the poor, financially or otherwise.

    In the biblical prophecies; Christ also gave another definition and he explained it this way.

    Only the Sons born of the Flesh persecute the Sons born of the Spirit. In other words, the persecutors had not been born again, a holy spirit of a Son of God. The Jewish priests persecuted and murdered the prophets in ancient times; and he told them that judgement would come upon them in the last days, for what they had done. He told them that the only sign that they would be given would be sign of jonah that turned up in may 2010. After that 5 million trees burned to the ground on mount carmel.

    Then Queensland was flooded and we all know what has been going on in the USA since Obama was elected. The Leopard Cat from Africa mentioned by the prophet Daniel and Rev 13.
  11. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Those who have a problem with The Bible's declaration about Satan being a real created being will have a major paradigm shift in their thinking away from a lot God's Truth of the ultimate war ordained for this present world.

    Man's philosophy denies the existence of Satan as a created being, and instead tries to apply the principles of good and evil in another form, that of natural forces. Ben Stein in his DVD Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, did a good job of spotlighting the Darwinist style of thinking concerning ethical behavior towards our fellow man. To the Darwinist there is no God, no good or evil. So the acts one does is not assigned as being inherently good or evil. That led to the kind of false thinking that would spurn Nazi scientists to torture captives in the name of science.

    To many so-called intellectuals, belief that God and the cherub Satan which God created exists in reality is certainly like a primitive superstitious style of thinking many of them would equate with someone living in the Dark ages or even to a caveman mentality. Those simply have yet to face the reality that God and His creation involves more than material objects and flesh existence. And by that, they actually reveal how their reasoning is more connected with primitive thought than with absolute Truth.
  12. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    United States
    I believe Satan exists - he was created perfect, with free will. Unfortunately, he choose to misuse his own nature and act out against God. He succeeded to raise an angelic army against God. Because he was merely a created being and not a threat, God simply relocated him to Earth. Unfortunately for us, he influenced A&E to misuse God's creation.

    Today, the biggest threat to our sanctification and redemption is to lapse into our false selves - the old man - the ego. We still remember how to do it. If you need to believe that Satan is tempting you every time you are tempted to follow your old desires - ok. I choose to believe that I am my own worse enemy - I am responsible for surrendering to God when I am tempted or when I fail. The fact is, God didn't accept Eve's attempt to blame the serpent for her actions in the Garden, why would He accept the same behavior from me?

    Meanwhile, Satan is continuing to misuse creation until the end of time. We are called to love through all the chaos. I look to God for my sanctification, transformation and redemption - the devil is on his own.
  13. goodshepard55

    goodshepard55 New Member

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    true...Satan is only allowed to test us after asking permission...read Job...Read about Peter...Satan had to ask to test Peter..God gave permission...Satan ask to test Job...God gave permission...Does not mean he can't harass Christians....but to test us in oour faith in Christ..he has to ask
  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

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    Remember he is also a little liar. :)
  15. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

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    Personally I think there is way too much attention and focus on satan, start by dying to self, once you start making ground in that you might encounter satan but just remember as long as you remain submitted to God, satan is not a threat at all.

    If we stay focused on Christ and allow HolySpirit to lead us, He will inform us of any danger and any threat conjured up by the enemy and show us how to disarm it.

    I have witnessed many well meaning Christians who felt called into some so-called deliverance ministry and eventual spent the most of their time chasing/following manifestations of satan/enemy around. In most cases it ended up in tragedy, lives wrecked, marriages and families in shambles and in many cases bitterness towards God.
  16. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    United States
    As long as you have someone else to blame for your actions, feelings, thoughts, and circumstances, you will remain a victim and distant from your true self and God.
  17. JJsaint

    JJsaint New Member

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    I voted No.

    Satan is NOT a fallen angel that goes around causing people to sin.
    Man is the one responsible for his own actions,not some supernatural fallen angel.

    A classic case of ''the devil made me do it'' is in Genesis 3.

    The man blamed the woman(Genesis 3:12)
    The woman blamed the serpent(Genesis 3:13)
    The serpent had no one to blame.

    But the punishments were given to Adam,Eve and the serpent.

    Man is the one who sins,he causes himself to sin etc etc

    James 1:14-15:[sup]14[/sup]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
    [sup]15[/sup]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    Sin comes from within a man.(Matthew 15:17-20,Mark 7:18-23)

    The Temptation of Eve and Jesus

    It is assumed that just because the words "Satan" and "Devil" are incorporated into the Masoretic text, that proves the existence of a literal supernatural being. However, if we probe a little deeper into Scripture to see who or what is the principle of temptation in the case of both Jesus and Eve, we will discover something that cannot be easily dismissed or passed off as mere coincidence. To understand what tempts man, we must search scripture for an answer (to see whether it is a personification of evil called "Satan" or something else). I believe the answer is found in I John 2:16 which says, "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." The "Satan" or "Devil" is not mentioned as having anything to do with "All that is in the world." What this tells us is that all temptations of evil are of this terrestrial world.

    How does this relate to the three accounts of the Temptation of Christ? It must have been an important lesson to be included in the three gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke. In each book, Jesus is tempted in three situations which (ironically) correspond to the three elements of 'all that is in the world'.

    1. "And when the tempter came to Him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command these stones be made bread" Mt. 4:3. This corresponds to the lust of the flesh.

    2. "Again the devil [small 'd', thus a noun] taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them" Mt. 4:8. This corresponds to the lust of the eyes. If we are to understand this exceedingly high mountain to be literal, then we are stuck with the impossibility of literally seeing all the kingdoms of the world by virtue of a limited horizon. Even if one were on top of Mt. Everest, one would not be able to see all the kingdoms of the world. This indicates that the narrative is engaged in figures of speech.

    3. "If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down" Mt. 4:6. This corresponds to the pride of life.

    These three elements are the only things that tempted Christ. The devil in this case, as it was with Eve and ourselves today, is the adversarial mentality to go against God. We can overcome adverse thinking as did Jesus Christ. Let's look at who or what tempted Eve.

    If Adam and Eve had remained obedient to God's command, death would not have entered the world. There's some pretty heavy symbolism going on in the Garden of Eden. Adam was formed exclusively by God and had no flesh mother; and because of that, God's spirit dominated his flesh so that he wasn't carnally minded. Eve on the other hand was made by God out of Adam's flesh and thus the weaker vessel. Adam was made from the dust of the ground. Dust cannot be tempted and neither can God's Spirit (James 1:13). This may explain why there had to be a weak link for Eve to be tempted. If this wasn't God's purpose, He would have created Eve out of the dust also. As such, neither could have been tempted in the flesh.

    The three temptations of 'all that is in the world' (I John 2:16) were also laid upon Jesus' flesh (Luke 4:1-13). Christ had a heavenly Father (creator) and also a flesh mother (Mary). The difference between these two temptations (Jesus' and Eve's) is that Christ overcame the flesh. We know God's Spirit cannot be tempted without the introduction of the flesh. After 40 days of fasting in the wilderness, it was Jesus' own hunger, visualization and potential ambition that entered His mental state or condition.

    The "tree of knowledge" represents God's Law in spiritual form (Romans 7:14). Partaking of its fruit, as Adam and Eve were warned and found out brings on death. It wasn't the actual fruit that inflicted death, but rather their disobedience to what the Lord had commanded. So, in the symbolism of a tree, embodied three manifestations of all that is in the world. That is: the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life (I John 2:16). "Satan" is not included in "all that is in the world". When we investigate Eve's infatuation by way of a stimulant i.e the serpent, we find that all three parts of our worldly enticements were presented in the temptation.

    1. The lust of the flesh was accomplished in that "The tree was good for food."

    2. The lust of the eyes was fulfilled in that "It was pleasant to the eyes."

    3. And the pride of life was achieved in Eve's belief that it was "A tree to be desired to make one wise" (Gen. 3:6).

    Perhaps, conceptually, the word satan has been so misinterpreted to align itself with pagan mythology rather than with the Word of God, that it is incomprehensible to those who have been inculcated with years of superstitious teachings and 'doctrines of devils' to believe in the simplicity of Christ. Let me give you a comparative example of how the Bible says the same thing in two different ways. "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil" I John 3:8. And then we read the same premise just three verses prior, "He was manifested to take away our sins." It shouldn't be too hard to comprehend that it is our sin nature, which the Bible says is the only thing in the world (that should be of concern) and it is: the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life. It is these three things that tempted both Eve and Jesus, not a vicarious supernatural agent in lieu of God. We are further told in James 1:14 that "every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." Again, no mention of any supernatural being. That should give any casual reader pause for reflection.


    The following was in the May ‘78
    — The “satan” controversy —
    We have had a few criticize my sermons
    on satan and Eve in the garden of
    Eden, and we have had many misunderstand
    For that I am sorry, but I am currently
    preaching a series of 8 sermons which; I
    pray, will answer almost all questions or
    This series is titled, Give The Devil
    His Due, and will cover almost everything
    in the Bible about satan, the devil
    and the serpent.
    Here are some items of information,
    which I pray, will move many of you to get
    this series and study it. This may be
    the most important series of sermons
    I have preached which is directed to
    expose falsehoods as taught by the
    false churches!
    Consider this:
    A. Jesus warned that as this age ended
    many would come in His Name and would
    deceive many, i.e. teach lies which would
    be believed.
    B. The New Testament Epistles warn
    that false "ministers" would deceive God's
    People in the end of the age.
    C. If the above are true warnings, the following
    statement should be true:
    "In the end of the age, if any large number
    of ministers teach a certain doctrine and
    that doctrine is believed by a large number
    of people, that doctrine is probably
    Therefore, consider the following:
    Most ministers teach, and most
    churchgoers believe:
    1. That man remains conscious after
    death. We examined that common doctrine
    and found it to be false.
    2. That most men go, after death, to a
    region of fire and brimstone where they
    spend eternity in conscious pain. We
    found God's Bible teaches no such thing.
    3. That a tiny percentage of men go, after
    death, in a conscious state to "heaven to
    be with Jesus." We found that is not
    taught in the Bible.
    4. That the people who call themselves
    "Jews" are the Israelites, God's Chosen
    People. That is, also, false.
    5. That Christians are going to be takenfrom
    the earth in a "rapture" just before a
    great "Antichrist" comes and brings seven
    years of "tribulation" on the earth. That
    doctrine is false.
    6. That there exists a mighty, angelic
    being called "Satan," who is the "devil,
    who is omnipresent, being in all parts of
    the world at once, and in "hell" at the
    same time. That this supernatural being
    is long lived, that he has power to frus-
    Excerpted from the May & December issues of
    America’s Promise Newsletters. by Sheldon Emry
    trate most of God's plans, and many of
    man’s, that he is the cause of all. corruption
    and evil in the world and that he will
    continue to do all such evil work until
    sometime in the future, when he will be
    We are, now, examining that doctrine"
    to see if it has any more foundation in
    Bible Truth than do the first five!
    In the first few of the 8 sermons we
    have found some "interesting" pieces of
    The Chaldean word "sawtawn," from
    which we get the English word "satan," is
    in the original Hebrew manuscripts 30
    times. Nineteen times it was translated
    by the King James translators, as "satan"
    and 11 times as the word "adversary." In
    all it is in 9 passages.
    Of the 9 passages, once the "sawtawn"
    is God Himself, once it is God's angel, once
    David is the "sawtawn," once it is David’s
    officers, once Solomon says he has no “saw
    tawn.” Three times the “sawtawns” are
    men whose names are given, and only in
    the Book of Job — one passage of the nine
    in the Old Testament where “sawtawn” is
    found — is the “sawtawn” possibly-similar
    to the “satan” of the churches.
    So, we examined the Book of Job further,
    and were startled to find that all
    except one of the acts we thought “satan”
    did, were admitted to have been done by
    God Himself!
    The one act “satan” might have done,
    himself, is in Job 2:7 where he “may” have
    given Job boils! Not quite the kind of
    momentous act we had expected of
    When we went to “serpent,” we were
    similarily treated.
    “Serpent” is in the Old Testament 19
    times, and in all except Gen. 3, where a
    “serpent” spoke to Eve, it is easy to prove
    that “serpent” stood for a real snake, a
    symbol of a real snake or the star constellation
    which stands for a snake.
    The conclusion is obvious, even though
    it defies tradition: If God used the Word
    “serpent” 18 times to mean a literal snake
    or a symbol of one, what authority do we
    have to come along in the 19th case and
    identify that “serpent” as anything other
    than a real snake? (This is especially-true
    since in the Book of Revelation, where
    both “satan” and “serpent” are used for
    the same thing, that “serpent” is a “beast”
    with seven heads and ten horns; which is
    later identified as a great world empire,
    not some individual angelic creature!)
    Three more things will be mentioned
    here; then the rest will be on the tapes:
    1. The title “Lucifer” appears only once in
    the Bible and it is a mistranslation!
    Even then, the passage is plainly
    addressed to a mortal man who is identified
    and told he is going to die soon! Yet
    that passage has been used for centuries
    by “the clergy” to expound about an oldarchangel
    called “Lucifer!”
    2. “Devil” is not in the Old Testament at
    3. “Devils” (plural) is used 4 times and
    only in reference to idols of wood and
    stone. It does not refer to any “living”
    And that is enough said. I repeat what
    I said at the first: “This may be the most
    important series of sermons I have
    The following was in the December ‘78
    Ministers quote Rev. 12 about the "war
    in heaven” and “the great dragon was cast
    out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and
    Satan.......” and insist that “satan” is a
    “fallen angel.”
    But, in verse 3 that “satan” has “seven
    heads and ten horns, and seven crowns
    upon his heads.” That is the SAME seven
    headed “beast” upon which Mystery
    Babylon rides in Rev. 17 and there it is
    quite plain — it is a conglomeration of
    They say the “war” in Rev. 12 was
    fought in God's “heaven,” but, in verse 1,
    we find the “woman clothed with the sun,”
    was, also, in “heaven.” The woman is
    Israel, and Israel is (and was) on the
    earth, so the “heaven” of Rev. 12 is on the
    earth, also!
    These 2 facts: (1) The “satan” of Rev.
    12 is identical to the "kings" (nations) of
    Rev. 17, and (2) the "heaven" of Rev. 12 is
    where Israel is, absolutely rules out Rev.
    12 as being about any supernatural,
    omnipresent, fallen angel. The "satan" of
    the Churches cannot be found in Rev. 12.
    The truth about "satan" is nothing
    short of ASTOUNDING. The satan of the
    churches is as real as the hell of the
    Note: To further enhance your study of
    this subject, you should listen to the following
    recorded sermons by Pastor Emry:
    Tapes, 7722a, 7722b & 7723a, 7723b,
    titled: “Eve And The Serpent In The
    Garden Of Eden, What Actually
    and the series: “Give The Devil His
    Due,” 7810a, 7810b — 7811a, 7811b —
    7812a, 7812b — 7813a, 7813b.
    All the above sermons may be listened
    to by going to the Cassette Tape Sermons
    section of the Sheldon Emry Memorial
  18. Hollyrock

    Hollyrock New Member

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    Yes, satan is still active, and even all the more as he sees his time is short.
  19. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Lucifer was already on the Earth when he tried to take over God's kingdom……his throne was and still is on the Earth. God simply cast him back to the Earth. The reason why Satan influence is so prevalent over man is because Adam willingly gave Satan his dominion over to Satan. Remember that Satan told Jesus that all the kingdoms of the world was given to him and that he could give it to whomever he wanted. This is one of the reasons why Jesus had to come. It was man that gave it to Satan so only a man could take it back........God without becoming a man could not because that would be a violation of His principle……when God gives you something it is yours permanently to do with it as you will…..God will not prevent you from expressing you will over it.
  20. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Satan does not always lie........he tells the truth when it is in his favor to do so. But what he does in the vast majority of times is mix the truth with lies. Jesus never refuted Satan when he said the kingdoms of this world was given to him and that he could give it to whomever he chose. The point is that Satan knew that Jesus was destined to take it from him, but Jesus would have to go through a painful death in order to do it. So Satan was hoping that he could entice Jesus to take a short cut to get it, but in doing so it would still leave Satan as the head of it and Jesus would have sinned, and nothing would have changed.