Saved By Grace Through FAITH ...

[theefaith]

Water baptism does not replace spirit baptism,

not of works.

water baptism is a work

you can baptize yourself

 

[theefaith]

What can you do to redeem your sin debt?

the penalty of sin is death. There is your answer

then all are saved?

 

[theefaith]

How can all be saved? When not all have true saving faith?

Don’t need faith
Don’t need anything
All are saved by God, as you say?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

you can baptize yourself

A man could not circumcise himself either, yet paul called that a work.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

then all are saved?

He who believes is not condemned

he who does not believe is condemned already

what freed them from the penalty of death? The penalty of sin?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Don’t need faith
Don’t need anything
All are saved by God, as you say?

Yawn,

what else would we be saved by?

 

[theefaith]

He who believes is not condemned

he who does not believe is condemned already

what freed them from the penalty of death? The penalty of sin?

so now I have to do something?
I have engage my will and choose? That’s works
Even choosing to believe?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

so now I have to do something?
I have engage my will and choose? That’s works
Even choosing to believe?

Who said you have to do something?

once again,

what freed you from the penalty of sin (the condemnation of death)

are you afraid to answer?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Mk 16:16

there are 2 groups here
Those being saved:
Those not saved:
The requirements are different for each group
And they have nothing in common

and Jesus does he who is not baptized is condemned, cos he requires baptism
He who believes AND is baptized shall be saved same as acts 8:36-38

And what does it say those who believe will do?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Don’t need faith
Don’t need anything
All are saved by God, as you say?

I was baptized three times BEFORE I was saved; but then I was baptized for the right reasons for the 4th time, but really the first.

 

[kcnalp]

Why are you challenging Jesus and Paul???

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You are not saved by works or kept saved by works.

John 3:16-18
King James Version

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.



The good works we are called to do are the result and an evidence of our already being saved, not something to make us saved or keep us saved! That is another gospel.

Read teh context of James 2. It is about doing good to others! If our faith does not help others it is dead and abiding alone- but don't think for a nanosecond that means that one is not saved. any more than physical death means one is not saved.

We are called unto good works, just not saved by them. A saved person is given a new nature with a new heart and a new mind. they should gorw in good works or "Christian works" as you call them.

But to ask you :

How many good works?

what good works need to be done?

How often?

If a person lapses for a month and does bad works for a month- did they lose their salvation?

If one loses their salvation, do you believe they can get it back again?

I ask these questions in sincerity wanting to know what you have to say.

If you don't have Christian works you're not a Christian!

 

[kcnalp]

NO person can say to another person “You are not a Christian...” ONLY Father God knows and sees the depth and cry of the heart in man..

you who judge so quickly may get a big surprise when finally getting to glory .

So you're saying James is wrong?

James 2:17 (NKJV)
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

[GracePeace]

I think Satan's [sole] purpose is to keep people away from Christ. If He cannot, then he tries distort their beliefs... faith is a trust in God...

Agree!

2 Corinthians 10:5
We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God...

Galatians 1
6I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse!
Galatians 3
1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? 5Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?
Galatians 5
2Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
...
7You were running so well. Who has obstructed you from obeying the truth? 8Such persuasion does not come from the One who calls you.

 

[GracePeace]

Quotes from
Martin Luther

"Now the article of justification, which is our sole defense, not only against all the force and craft of man, but also against the gates of Hades, is this: that by faith only in Christ, and without works, we are pronounced righteous and saved." LUTHER

"For the gospel does not expressly demand works of our own by which we become righteous and are saved; indeed it condemns such works. Rather the gospel demands faith in Christ: that He has overcome for us sin, death, and hell, and thus gives us righteousness, life, and salvation not through our works, but through His own works, death, and suffering, in order that we may avail ourselves of His death and victory as though we have done it ourselves." LUTHER

"We are not made righteous by doing righteous deeds; but when we have been made righteous we do righteous deeds." LUTHER

"To a believer no law is given by which he becomes righteous before God…because he is alive and righteous and saved by faith, and he needs nothing further except to prove his faith by works. Truly, if faith is there, he cannot hold back: he proves himself, breaks out into good works." LUTHER

"Our faith in Christ does not free us from works, but from the false opinions concerning works; that is, from the foolish presumption that justification is acquired through works." LUTHER

"It ought to be the primary goal of every Christian to put aside confidence in works and grow stronger in the belief that we are saved by faith alone. Through this faith the Christian should increase in knowledge not of works but of Christ Jesus and the benefits of his death and resurrection." LUTHER

* Not a debate, just for sharing and contemplation.

I actually have recently come around to what is essentially "by faith alone"--because included in "faith alone" is that we rest from our labors, and our works follow us, so that what we have to "do" is make sure to rest in the faith, and then we have a guarantee of works, but also without which rest we will not be able to maintain works (which works people are finally judged on--but the works belong alone to those who are persuaded of the Gospel, justified by faith alone).

 

[theefaith]

Who said you have to do something?

once again,

what freed you from the penalty of sin (the condemnation of death)

are you afraid to answer?

Christ’s grace merited by his blood applied to my soul thru faith and the sacraments

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Christ’s grace merited by his blood applied to my soul thru faith and the sacraments

So. You earned or merited your salvation by those works. What happened to grace (unmerited favor)?

 

[theefaith]

And what does it say those who believe will do?

nothing

he who believes and is baptized shall be saved
Faith and sacraments
Acts 2:38-39 promise of the father
A sacred oath or sacrament ez 36:25-27
Acts 8:36-38 faith and baptism

 

[theefaith]

And what does it say those who believe will do?

1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing
Greatest is charity
If salvation was by faith alone then faith would be the greatest

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[theefaith]

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

explain

 

[theefaith]

[QUOTE

and explain grace
Why more more more grace?
I thought you were saved past tense over and done
Why always more grace
Jn 1:16
Jn 10:10
All the greetings in scripture include grace be unto you
Why???????