Saved Or Predestined ???
- Thread starter Pianoworldstage
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What mistake? Creating the world? What if this is truly the best of all possible worlds where free will exists? Would it not be better to create it and be loved by some then to not create at all?
Are you God, are you perfect. you know this bit
Mar_11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
It is faith that pleases, God, and can you see into a mans heart, He can, is it not up to Him or is that your decision, but God they sinned, but God they are this , but God they are that, than He says, why should I let you in if you wont allow me to let them in, you know this bit.
Luk 12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Let God be God, they are His problem not yours.
You didnt earn you Grace and neither will they earn theres.
Should I add, dont you think God might of already known what that man was going to do, yet when He accepted grace, Jesus still chose to forgive Him.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
This is the truth. It will be hidden at first or called a mystery, until they reel you in.
OOPS. It is the reel you in that got me. Sorry. Duly noted.
Mt 7 Narrow is the way to life and FEW there be who find it.
God knew that before He created. He didn't have to create those He knew would burn in Hell forever. But He did.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Take the parable as Jesus taught it Renniks and move on. His disciples asked Him to explain it to them. He explained it. If you still don't get it, settle whatever you don't like or get in the parable with Jesus.
Tong
R0167
Of course, Pharaoh was a sinner because he chose to sin. All man is for that matter. But it was different from Pharaoh. Pharaoh was intentionally raised by God for His purpose. For one, He was the one who made him Pharaoh, and at the exact time He is about to bring about His plan and purpose in him. And that goes as well for his servants whom God had also hardened.
The problem I see, at least in your belief, is that you seem to can't accept that God can intentionally and purposely raise a person such as Pharaoh and make sure that he be the person God needed him to be to bring about His purpose, without tampering with his "free will". Not because we don't know how God does that, means we should not believe such. For we too don't know how He turned water into wine, yet we believe it without question. We should not be selective in what to believe about God.
Tong
R0168
I agree, in God's plan, He use even evil to bring about His purpose. We see that all over scriptures. So no issue on that.
Apparently you picked the easier question and whose answer is obvious, and dropped the other question, which is: "what need is there that God had to harden Pharaoh?" If Pharaoh himself hardens himself already, what need then is God hardening him? Put some sense in that Renniks. What for? Tell us.
The point of the question touches on the matter of God's foreknowledge of man's future decisions, which is made by others as basis for God's election of people, with the seeming dropping out altogether of God's absolute sovereignty, wisdom, own counsel, and determination.
Tong
R0169
@Renniks
Good point.
So that begs the question to Renniks and other who agrees with him, why did God create those He knew would burn in Hell?
Tong
R0170
Great question indeed. But the Bible gives us all the info we need to know!
Psalm 111:10 (NKJV)
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
He was called a man after Gods heart before he murdered anyone, let’s not forget that
All this tells me is that God allowed this Pharaoh to become the ruler for God's reasons. You need to study the difference between allowing and causing or ordaining.
It's simple firming up his resolve, so that God could show his power and the pitifulness of the Egyptian gods. It was for evangelizing, for redemption as God's plans always are.
Did killing make him disqualified for being that man?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
@Eternally Grateful
I'd say all, if not most, Christians were murderers at some point in their lives.
Many seems to take lightly or does not take this to mind and heart, this that the apostle John said and had written:
1 John 3: 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Remember:
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Tong
R0172
Because this world is a land of trial, it's not yet heaven. God created this trial in fairness, not slanting the odds deliberately in his favor. If I secretly rig the game, so I would win, would that not make me a cheater? God cannot do such as would be contrary to his character.
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