I'm a Bible believer. How does that qualify me for Hell???
You obviously didn't read any of the verses I posted.
Saved Or Predestined ???
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I'm a Bible believer. How does that qualify me for Hell???
You obviously didn't read any of the verses I posted.
That is exactly what it is, it was given to you for free, it is a gift, un earned undeserved, not paid for by you, without it, you would end up in prison. So yes it is a get out of jail free card.It appears here that you believe that grace is the get-out-of-jail-free card of Monopoly. That is part of the false teaching that the Church came up with while resisting the Truth of freedom from sin - not just punishment. You quote it quite well.
Grace is not unmerited favor, it is the power of God that He favors us with. That is why when we are weak, the Holy Spirit in us - His grace - strengthens us, and all we need. God's Power. This power is not of ourselves, lest we boast, but from God.
His Grace, His Power is what was missing in the Law, the Old Covenant. That is why the New Covenant has better promises. Jesus died and was resurrected so that we could die to our old carnal nature, and walk in newness of life - walk in the Spirit.
One of the Jewish writing styles is called a parallelism. A truth repeated twice using another word or phrase. Part of it will be the same identifying it as a parallelism, but the other part will be different in the two, clarifying what is meant. Here are two. In the first one, the apostle confirms that grace is power. Not a get out of jail free card, unmerited favor that the Church has brainwashed us with. This is the number one deception in the Church - Satan redefining GRACE. It is the power of God that enables us to minister effectively toward salvation with Truth - the narrow road; and not ineffectively with seducing definitions - the wide path.
Acts 4:33
And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.
1 Corinthians 1:7-8
eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
or did you miss this bit
Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
It is by grace we are saved through faith, You cannot earn it.
I'm a believer. I believe in God who created everyone and everything as it pleased Him. Yes, He knew who would burn in Hell before He made them.
Knowing doesn't equal predestination. The people who he knows will choose hell go there not because he chose it for them, but because they reject him.
God knew before He created! He didn't have to create those who will burn in Hell!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
How would that work? If God only created people who he knew would choose him, would they really have another choice?
Paul was a murderer before his conversion. David killed lots of people. Was David not saved? He sure seemed to have a relationship with God.
CharismaticLady: Grace is not unmerited favor, it is the power of God that He favors us with.It appears here that you believe that grace is the get-out-of-jail-free card of Monopoly. That is part of the false teaching that the Church came up with while resisting the Truth of freedom from sin - not just punishment. You quote it quite well.
Grace is not unmerited favor, it is the power of God that He favors us with. That is why when we are weak, the Holy Spirit in us - His grace - strengthens us, and all we need. God's Power. This power is not of ourselves, lest we boast, but from God.
His Grace, His Power is what was missing in the Law, the Old Covenant. That is why the New Covenant has better promises. Jesus died and was resurrected so that we could die to our old carnal nature, and walk in newness of life - walk in the Spirit.
One of the Jewish writing styles is called a parallelism. A truth repeated twice using another word or phrase. Part of it will be the same identifying it as a parallelism, but the other part will be different in the two, clarifying what is meant. Here are two. In the first one, the apostle confirms that grace is power. Not a get out of jail free card, unmerited favor that the Church has brainwashed us with. This is the number one deception in the Church - Satan redefining GRACE. It is the power of God that enables us to minister effectively toward salvation with Truth - the narrow road; and not ineffectively with seducing definitions - the wide path.
Acts 4:33
And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.
1 Corinthians 1:7-8
eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I beg to disagree. First, grace (Gk. charis), in all angles is unmerited favor, and kindness. It is undeserved. It is freely given. It comes from and flows out of love. While there apparently is power in grace, grace is different from power ~ grace is not power.
Regarding the passage, Acts 4:33, the verse does not in any way, effectively say, much less prove, that grace is power, if you cited it to support your teaching that grace is power.
CharismaticLady: His Grace, His Power is what was missing in the Law, the Old Covenant. That is why the New Covenant has better promises.
I beg to disagree yet again. If you don't see the grace of God and the power of God in the law, in the old covenant, it does not mean that they were not there or were missing. And to be sure, that was not the reason why there was the necessity for a new covenant. The fault was not with the law nor was with the covenant. It was God who gave the law and it was God who made the covenant. Far be it from us that we dare say that God failed or made a mistake. The fault is with the people (Hebrews 8:8).
Tong
R0163
P.S.
By the way, may I invite you to this thread:
The "Israel of God": Who are they?
Jesus himself explained the parable of the wheat and the tares, It's in you bible. It's there for you to read and believe.
Mt. 13:38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
The field is the world, not the church.
Tong
R0164
Agreed. But don't forget, why Pharaoh is like that, is because God raised him like so. And I have to point out, that God had done so without tampering on Pharaoh's "free will".
Since you argue that Pharaoh hardened his own heart first, perhaps you can tell us then, at least in your thinking, was there a need for God to harden Pharaoh? If you say there is, can you tell us then, at least in your view of God, what need is there that God had to harden Pharaoh?
I also want you notice that, it was not only Pharaoh whom God had hardened, but even Pharaoh's servants (Exod. 10:1). Now, there is every reason to conclude that even the people of Egypt were hardened by God, isn't it? Just saying..
Tong
R0165
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
It is a big mistake to give God all the characteristics of Satan. It is a big mistake to defend a demonic religion. Beside evil, it is loony! A religion for the dirt stupid. I am very use to totally absurd ideas and heinous perspectives. I had to deal with the druggies in custody and jails. When you are investigating something you have to look at what is there and what is not there. Footprints if you will.
Predestination as an ability of God is in the scriptures. But is it a totality of reality? Know that free-will is a big thing. A religion that believes in no free-will is a big deal. Christ did not explain that His ministry was about no free-will. His Apostles did not preach that Christianity was about no free-will. The Apostles were trying to spread the Good News so people would believe and be saved. They did not setup on a corner and wait for those puppets under the control of God to walk up and join.
It would have been a big issue. Living in an oppressive Roman society this would not have been an attractive characteristic. A religion that damns you before you are born! Come to Christianity and have a relationship with God, but you have no free-will and are under the total control of this Christian God. Not much of a draw for that. The Christian God does not allow free-will! Things would have went south real fast!
Now this would have been a big controversy in the early church and would have shown up in the writings between Christian leaders and it would have given the Pagan intellectuals a lot of ammunition to throw at the Christian leaders in their various debates. But this is not a debate.
A religion of no free-will would not be popular. No early church would ever think of putting this into a statement of faith or as signage. “Know that you enter this church by no free-will of your own!” People would turn around and run! And Christianity would have failed.
The sign read: Calvinist Church of California….and the caption underneath reads: Where you have no free-will! No Calvinist church is going to put that on their sign, because it is going to shock their congregation and very few would walk through their doors. In fact I dare any predestinationist church to put that on their sign and see how many people they lose.
I know that people think I am pretty rough on the predestinationists, but I have been battling evil all my life. I have seen the harm and evil that predestinationists have caused. I know how hard they work to cover this up in their own churches. Yes I face off against these subversive agents of Satan. Oh so subtle and sweet….hey, I have a scripture for you. But this is an international forum and I have little concern with them. I write to warn the world of the fungus that walks among us. To point out the evil and harm these religions cause. How slanderous they are to our good God. How satanic their preachings are! A warning to world of the evil they promote!
Have you noticed you do not see too many female Calvinists on this forum? There is a reason for that. It is a worldwide international forum and where are the women? There voices silenced!? Come on Calvinists, tell us about your female preachers!
If you murder someone, be it the actual act of killing a person, or be it having hated a brother in your heart, you sinned. The child of God will be chastised for the wrong. What form and manner that chastisement will be, depend on God who chastises him. He should repent and confess his sins, and ask for forgiveness. Scriptures said to the children of God, if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Tong
R0166
Again, it says nothing about some being Destined for one or another...we all understand that the wicked choose to remain in thier ways, that's basic biblical theology. " Choose you this day whom you will serve."
What you are taking from the parables isn't thier point.
He wasn't evil because of God. He was evil, so God used that. If he'd been willing to follow God, that would have been what God used. God can't author any evil.
Apparently. But IMO, some people are already self hardened beyond redemption. God will use evil bad people to bring good results at times.
This is the truth. It will be hidden at first or called a mystery, until they reel you in.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
No mystery! Lie all you want. If you look on the internet you have been exposed along time ago. Do you think those posters are hard to find? It is well known that Calvinism is an enemy of God and a friend to Satan. The truth is not in you and you fear the truth. I dare you...put it out on the message board in front of your church..."This church does not believe in free-will" What good is judgment day, "God has damned you before the creation of the world"....Put it on your sign..."Some of your babies are damned before they are born" There is no escape for those babies! No mercy! If I was stupid enough to be a Calvinist, I would not have children.
The best weapon against Satan is truth and same goes for predestinationists. You fear being exposed by the truth. You cannot stand up to the truth. And the world knows you and your evil. A warning to the world! Do not get caught up in the snares of Calvinism! Be warned! Be warned! Satan seek you and stands at the pulpit of every Calvinist church.
Is your God the God of the Bible who drowned all but 8 "making them an example"?
2 Peter 2:5-6 (NKJV)
5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
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