Saved, which means what?

[Webers_Home]

.

I think it would be more accurate to believe that those snakes were always
in that wilderness, but Good removed His protection.

According to the language and grammar of Numbers 21:6, the snakes
weren't given liberty to bite Moses' people, rather; they were "sent", i.e.
dispatched.
_

 

[amadeus]

1 Cor 15:1-9,14
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

I noticed this verse and one little word that I felt was quite significant. That word is "if."

You are saved by the gospel IF you hold fast to the word which Paul preached to them. If you DON'T hold fast, are you then in danger of losing your salvation?

Yes, indeed!

"And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." Rev 2:3-5

And without that 'first love' what is the likely result?

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

Some may insist that the Thessalonian verses are speaking about initial salvation, but I believe it also speaks about what happens too often after the fact of meeting Jesus. People fall out of love with the truth and the result is this. Paul admonishes us:

"And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not." Gal 6:9

 

[amadeus]

Perhaps, if only one's salvation rest in the ability of man. But thanks be to God that such is not the case.

Tong
R1043

You used the word "ability" which is certainly wrong, whereas I would use the word, "choice"...

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

God has never been a respecter of persons nor has God ever changed... Is Jesus not also here speaking of a choice in what we may or may not believe and the results of our choice?

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36

 

[amadeus]

this is where we disagree and I’m not saying I’m right. But if you are right, then I’m in trouble. Isaiah 60:18-21 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. [19] The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, (Ephesians 5:14)and thy God thy glory. [20]
(Ephesians 4:26) Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. [21] Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

How much flesh falls away and departs from the Living God?
John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

I won't argue the point with you. What is in our heart is what matters to God. Can a person start loving someone and then further along the road stop loving that someone? Don't try to answer that. Simply consider it!

 

[amadeus]

Good Morning!

Saved is past tense. That means it has already happened.

Yes, I agree. Yesterday when I was assailed by temptations God one more time was there to help me when I called upon Him. He saved me. Today if another temptation is placed before my eyes if I call upon Him from my heart will He not again save me from sinning? Yesterday, today, tomorrow? When is a person saved? When can a person be saved? As a Catholic I do believe that you believe this similar to the way I do...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

To the rich (the manager as well as the son who stayed), God gave charity as a path to salvation and to the prodigal the path of repentance. The two are not in opposition. They are the appropriate medicine that God provided as a remedy to whatever spiritual sickness might afflict us: greed, envy, prodigality...

Those who accept the spoiling of their goods practice involuntary charity, which is probably the greatest form of charity.

A lot of insight and not arguing it. Value your input so I ask because I want to have your input: Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

what would you say are ‘everlasting habitations’?

 

[amadeus]

concerning mammon: (imo) there is hope in Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
Luke 16:9 Lexicon: "And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of the wealth of unrighteousness, so that when it fails, they will receive you into the eternal dwellings.

Who are ‘that, when you fail’ they may receive you into everlasting habitations? What is not dissolved 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Point is ‘that, when you fail’ 1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


make friends with
μαμωνᾶ
(mamōna) 3126: riches of Aramaic origin
of unrighteousness, ἀδικίας
(adikias) 93: injustice, unrighteousness

that when it fail...

I understand it better with this translation:

"And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations." Luke 16:9

But even with that I am still uncertain exactly what question you are asking of me...?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I understand it better with this translation:

"And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations." Luke 16:9

But even with that I am still uncertain exactly what question you are asking of me...?

what should you say are everlasting habitations?

 

[amadeus]

We know the new birth(spiritual) like the physical birth is irreversible. Thats why Paul says we are sealed with the HS and that His dwelling in us is His down-payment(guarantee) of our inheritance.

Birth may be irreversible, but suicide or murder actually do exist in the physical. In the spiritual? Did not Adam and Eve in effect commit spiritual suicide?

 

[ChristisGod]

Birth may be irreversible, but suicide or murder actually do exist in the physical. In the spiritual? Did not Adam and Eve in effect commit spiritual suicide?

the born never become unborn that is irreversible.

you are discussing sin and death, I'm talking about birth/life.

 

[amadeus]

what should you say are everlasting habitations?

We are to the place where Jesus is to lay his head, but when he spoke these words...

"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

That was spoken before any man could by receive the Holy Ghost within himself to make possible the proper cleaning and preparation of ourselves so that Jesus could lay his Head in us and be our Head. Read the words of David here:

"Surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed;
I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,
Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob." Ps 132:3-5

"For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it." Psalm 132:13-14

And Zion is:

!wyc Tsiyown (tsee-yone'); Proper Name Location, Strong #: 6726

Zion = "parched place"

That is us the uninhabitable parched place before we drink of that Living Water...

"Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water." John 4:10

With that Living Water working in us, Jesus is finding a place to lay His Head...

 

[amadeus]

the born never become unborn that is irreversible.

you are discussing sin and death, I'm talking about birth/life.

The thread is about salvation. Without life there is no salvation. If a person kills himself, is he still alive?

 

[icxn]

what would you say are ‘everlasting habitations’?

You want me to describe that which no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined (1 Corinthians 2:9), the house not made with hands (2 Corinthians 5:1-2), the imperishable (1 Corinthians 15:53-54) qualities of the divine nature, which the saved are destined to inherit (2 Peter 1:4)?

Who can adequately speak about these things... can words even describe them?

 

[ChristisGod]

The thread is about salvation. Without life there is no salvation. If a person kills himself, is he still alive?

And the new birth is irreversible. Can you find one instance where a born again believer becomes unborn in Scripture ?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Salvation

to me it can only mean one thing, salvation from the penalty of sin, salvation from the spiritual death I was born in, and salvation from Gods wrath on judgment day,

any other type of salvation is meaningless if non of the above is assured, what good is it if I am saved from my sin life on earth only to spend eternity in hell because my sin debt was not paid, what good is it if I am saved from affliction and pain and suffering here on earth if I have to endure the pain and differing and affliction of hellfire for an eternity.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The thread is about salvation. Without life there is no salvation. If a person kills himself, is he still alive?

What good is it if I am physically alive yet doomed to spend eternity in hell. I may have life, but in reality I am dead

 

[amadeus]

And the new birth is irreversible. Can you find one instance where a born again believer becomes unborn in Scripture ?

Could you first to provide a definition of a "born again believer" and then show clearly at exactly which point a person becomes one?

 

[amadeus]

What good is it if I am physically alive yet doomed to spend eternity in hell. I may have life, but in reality I am dead

Don't mix physical life with the Life that Jesus brought. Men had physical life before Jesus came. What He brought was the Life which had been missing since Adam and Eve disobeyed God. To God everyone of us was dead until and if we received the Life brought by Jesus.

 

[ChristisGod]

Could you first to provide a definition of a "born again believer" and then show clearly at exactly which point a person becomes one?

Jesus discussed the new birth in His conversation with Nicodemus, a Jewish leader, in John 3. Jesus said to him, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again” (John 3:3). Nicodemus was puzzled and asked how anyone could re-enter his mother’s womb and be born a second time. Jesus doubled down: “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit” (verse 5). Then He expounded on what the new birth is.

Jesus explained that this new birth is not physical, but spiritual. The new birth that we must experience in order to “see the kingdom of God” is a work of the Holy Spirit. Just as a mother does all the work in physical birth, so the Holy Spirit does all the work in the new birth. Upon our faith in the saving power of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit enters our spirits, regenerates us, and begins His work of transforming us into the image of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). We are born again.

We are all born with a sin nature that separates us from our Creator. We were designed in His own image (Genesis 1:27), but that image was tarnished when we fell into sin. As sinners, we cannot fellowship with a holy God the way we are. We cannot be repaired, restored, or rehabilitated. We need to be reborn.

In answer to Nicodemus’s questions about the new birth, Jesus began talking about the wind: “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit” (John 3:5–8).

In His analogy of the wind in John 3:8, Jesus was comparing physical birth and growth with spiritual birth and growth. Jesus points out that Nicodemus need not marvel at the necessity of the Spirit causing one to be “born again.” Nicodemus naturally believed in other things as difficult to understand, such as the wind, which he could not see. The effects of the wind are obvious: the sound is heard, and things move as it moves. The wind, unseen, unpredictable, and uncontrollable, is mysterious to us, but we see and understand its effects. So it is with the Spirit. We do not see the Spirit, but we see the changes the Spirit produces in people. Sinful people are made holy; liars speak truth; the proud become humble. When we see such changes, we know they have a cause. The Spirit affects us just as the wind affects the trees, water, and clouds. We don’t see the cause, and we don’t understand all the in’s and out’s of how it works, but we see the effect and believe.

When an infant is born, he continues to grow and change. A year later, two years later, ten years later, the child has changed. He does not remain an infant because a live birth results in growth. We may not see this growth happening, but we see the changes it produces. So it is with the new birth. When a person is born again in spirit, he or she is born into the family of God “like newborn babies” (1 Peter 2:2). This birth is not visible, but it begins to produce changes that are evident.got ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Could you first to provide a definition of a "born again believer" and then show clearly at exactly which point a person becomes one?

If I may


Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

Eph 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),