Saved, which means what?

[Enoch111]

‘And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of wealth of injustice unrighteousness, so when it fails, ceases and comes to nothing they will receive you into the age long eternal dwellings: tabernacle, abode, mansions, habitations.’

Why go with such an awkward translation when we already have a plain and clear translation?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why go with such an awkward translation when we already have a plain and clear translation?

trying to relate my questions. My confusion there. Maybe someone will pick up on why I struggle there and help? What do you say eternal habitations are? And a question...have you been faithful by means of the unrighteous mammon therefore been given and trusted with the true riches? Sounds (imo)like something we do to earn (by means of mammon) the true riches. If that is the case than any humanitarian should be trusted with the true riches of God based off their faithfulness with mammon. Like tithing ten percent...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

By the word friends, I understand to mean those works of charity that can 'speak' favorably on our behalf on the day of judgement and number us with the sheep (Matthew 25:34-36).

there in Matthew ...Jesus Christ did not go visit John literally in prison instead He sent word to John that the prison doors of all prisoners and those held captive to death, their prison doors where shaking and opening including Johns’.

 

[amadeus]

No, they did not. Eve was deceived. Adam heeded the voice of his wife Eve over that of God's, and ate of the fruit of the forbidden tree, in disobedience to Him who created them, that is, God. Besides, that has nothing to do at all with the truth that birth is irreversible.

Tong
R1050

 

[amadeus]

However, it is not as it was when I was first born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Regarding this matter, I don't have anything to do with it whatsoever nor even have any bit of knowledge about it, as it was in my first birth. This is not at all difficult to understand in that, we were all dead and so knows nothing and could do nothing, and that, even while we have "physical life". Being born again, that is of God, has everything to do only with God, Him who recreates me by rebirth. [/QUOTE]
Effectively dead each and every one but left with hope in a Messiah, a Redeemer. And here we see it:

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

"Every man" has that light, which is Not salvation, but hope. Every dead person can see effectively a glimmer of the Light, which is real Life. Do they pursue that Light and take hold of its Promise? This is the Father drawing us:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

Will be drawn? Will we then step out in faith without seeing every clearly?

"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth" John 14:7-10

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Enoch111]

trying to relate my questions. My confusion there.

Let's go back to what Jesus said in Luke 16:
8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. 9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. 10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?

1. This parable is about Christian stewardship, which involves money. But because of the various conflicting elements in it, it can cause confusion.

2. Even though money is neutral, Jesus calls it "the mammon of unrighteousness" and "the unrighteous mammon" because wealth is frequently put to unrighteous uses, and it is also worshiped by the wealthy (hence called "mammon"). But money is in fact neutral in and of itself.

3. Even though the steward in this parable had stolen from his master (called "lord"), his master commended him. This does not mean that Christ was encouraging theft. He simply used this parable to show that money should be used wisely, and is provided to Christian stewards to further the Gospel and the Kingdom of God, which involves "everlasting habitations" (also called "mansions" by Christ) for believers in the New Jerusalem.

4. When Jesus tells us to "make friends" with money, He is definitely NOT encouraging covetousness. Rather what He is telling us is that money can be -- and should be -- put to good use on earth (for the Kingdom of God). "When ye fail" could mean when you pass away. Therefore when a Christian dies and passes on, if he or she has been a good steward on earth, God and Christ will give them huge stewardship responsibilities in eternity within the Kingdom of God.

 

[amadeus]

Him who received the life is said to be in Jesus Christ (who is the life). Now, here's what scriptures says relative to this: There is no more condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

Tong
R1052

Indeed!
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom 8:1

The ones who are "in Christ Jesus" do walk after the Spirit! Here I guess is where we separate for a person who has met Jesus and actually repented that first time can still turn aside or back into his evil ways and sin. When a person chooses that wrong way and steps into it, he steps out of Christ Jesus, because Jesus will not go that way.

Peter's walk on water provides us an example. Walking on the water with his eyes on Jesus and then he looks down away from Jesus and starts to sink as he is unable to walk that Way alone. But with Peter, as with us, Jesus is there and when Peter calls for help, he is helped. He was "in Christ" and then out of Christ, and then back "in Christ!

Like Jesus, we are still tempted, but unlike Jesus many or all of us since we met Him and began our walk "in Him" have succumbed to that temptation and gone back into sin. You say, no, but I simply say, look at your own fruits and you be the judge. I cannot be your judge. I do not see your ways as a man. I can only see the little you have posted here on this forum...

Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

This baby is a child of God, born of God. If earthly parents makes sure that their baby is fed and fed with the right food, what more will that be of God? So, nothing at all to worry about.

Babies are indeed fed by their parents especially when they are still on milk, but a time comes in the life of a maturing baby when he will/should want to eat meat and potatoes, things that he can and will chew on his own. He develops teeth for that purpose. He being prepared and preparing himself to live as an independent mature person. He learns that he cannot chew bones so he does not even bite them. He is taught and learns that some things do not agree with his system and that they may even kill him. How mature must a child be before a parent allows him to select his own food and eat it all alone?

Is it not like that for the spiritual child as he matures in the things of God? But as we see some people scarcely or even never move from babyhood to adulthood. Is that a good thing?

"For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." Heb 5:12-14

Where are our teeth to bite and chew the meat of God's Word? Have they been broken out of our mouths? Are they to be broken out of our mouths? Are we to be among the ungodly?

"Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly.
Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. " Psalm 3:7-8

Should we sit back in our rocking chairs as old men in the flesh must do even arriving to the point that they must puree our food and handle the spoon for us, but is not the "new man" one who will never die and will rather help out the babies in Christ?

God indeed wants to work in us, but we indeed must allow Him to do so and continue to allow Him to do so. The choice is always ours even to the end of our course. God has never removed from us the right to make our own decisions to direct our course... even when walking blindly we will walk straight into a ditch.

 

[icxn]

by means of wealth of injustice and unrighteousness...wadr the topic is what is salvation ...Is salvation in what fails ‘wealth of injustice and unrighteousness’ so still not getting the (by means of). Do not (imo) think He was supporting the (by means of injustice and unrighteousness)

Most certainly the parable doesn’t call us to imitate the unrighteous steward by stealing our employers, but rather his shrewdness. He didn’t waste any time and he used whatever means he had to provide for himself. In our case, the means we have to provide for the salvation of our soul are the talents God has given us. They can be compared to the ‘unrighteous mammon,’ since we did not earn them, God simply made us stewards over them. But unlike the parable, He expects us to trade with them, share them with others and increase them. If we bury them in the ground of our concern for the things of the flesh, He will eventually take them away from us (Matthew 25:28), this is the part when we and them fail.

 

[amadeus]

Then help me understand.

you asked a questions and I answered the best I could

Sorry! I did not mean to be short. I too am a man who sometimes gets tired and frustrated. I thought I had answered everyone's questions to this point. I just now went back through all of the posts prior to this post of yours, but I am still unsure of what it is you don't understand or what you are asking. Very simply try to ask one question at a time and I will try to fill in as I can.
Again, I apologize!

 

[Tong2020]

Effectively dead each and every one but left with hope in a Messiah, a Redeemer. And here we see it:

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

"Every man" has that light, which is Not salvation, but hope. Every dead person can see effectively a glimmer of the Light, which is real Life.

And effectively dead means something like having ears but cannot hear, having eyes but cannot see, not even a glimmer of the light, the true Light. Unless one is born from above (born again) he cannot see.

Tong
R1056

 

[Tong2020]

Indeed!
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom 8:1

The ones who are "in Christ Jesus" do walk after the Spirit! Here I guess is where we separate for a person who has met Jesus and actually repented that first time can still turn aside or back into his evil ways and sin. When a person chooses that wrong way and steps into it, he steps out of Christ Jesus, because Jesus will not go that way.

Peter's walk on water provides us an example. Walking on the water with his eyes on Jesus and then he looks down away from Jesus and starts to sink as he is unable to walk that Way alone. But with Peter, as with us, Jesus is there and when Peter calls for help, he is helped. He was "in Christ" and then out of Christ, and then back "in Christ!

Like Jesus, we are still tempted, but unlike Jesus many or all of us since we met Him and began our walk "in Him" have succumbed to that temptation and gone back into sin. You say, no, but I simply say, look at your own fruits and you be the judge. I cannot be your judge. I do not see your ways as a man. I can only see the little you have posted here on this forum...

Give God the glory!

You are right, that is where we separate. Those who are in Christ are kept by Christ, as also by the Father and the Holy Spirit. I know you know what it means to be kept by no other than the omnipotent God. They are those who have been born of God, as such, are children of God. Their Father is no other than God. The children, during their walk on this sin corrupted world, who are still in the body of flesh, that is, the body of death (as Paul calls it), do stumble at times. Even then, their sonship is not lost, but they shall certainly be chastised by the Father.

Tong
R1057

 

[ChristisGod]

You are right, that is where we separate. Those who are in Christ are kept by Christ, as also by the Father and the Holy Spirit. I know you know what it means to be kept by no other than the omnipotent God. They are those who have been born of God, as such, are children of God. Their Father is no other than God. The children, during their walk on this sin corrupted world, who are still in the body of flesh, that is, the body of death (as Paul calls it), do stumble at times. Even then, their sonship is not lost, but they shall certainly be chastised by the Father.

Tong
R1057

Like Jesus said below they are always secure in Him.

John 10:27-30
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

 

[Tong2020]

Babies are indeed fed by their parents especially when they are still on milk, but a time comes in the life of a maturing baby when he will/should want to eat meat and potatoes, things that he can and will chew on his own. He develops teeth for that purpose. He being prepared and preparing himself to live as an independent mature person. He learns that he cannot chew bones so he does not even bite them. He is taught and learns that some things do not agree with his system and that they may even kill him. How mature must a child be before a parent allows him to select his own food and eat it all alone?

Is it not like that for the spiritual child as he matures in the things of God? But as we see some people scarcely or even never move from babyhood to adulthood. Is that a good thing?

God is their Father. He provides for them and takes care of them. God knows each one of His children and knows what is good for each one of them. He feeds them and deals with them accordingly. He knows who feeds on milk and who is ready to feed on meat. He disciplines them and does what is good for them. Each child is not alike and is his own person and have different situations, so that, God deals with each one in different and various ways. We can rest assured that all that God does to and in them, is good, even while it may not seem to us as such.

Tong
R1058

 

[icxn]

Upon a close look at the gospels we see that Christ orchestrated His own crusifiction, should this be offensive? After all the “law states do not commit murder”.

It was murder for those who crucified Him. From His perspective it was a sacrifice of love. Otherwise we would be commending Judas for his pivotal role in setting everything in motion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry! I did not mean to be short. I too am a man who sometimes gets tired and frustrated. I thought I had answered everyone's questions to this point. I just now went back through all of the posts prior to this post of yours, but I am still unsure of what it is you don't understand or what you are asking. Very simply try to ask one question at a time and I will try to fill in as I can.
Again, I apologize!

It’s ok bro, I know how it can get,,

I was not asking I question I was answering a question you asked me

which is why I was confused by your answer that I did not understand you

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Jesus brought Salvation and Life. What is required for a person to receive what Jesus brought? If a person were to lay hold of one or both, how long would this salvation and/or life last?

What say you?

 

[icxn]

I agree that it is through Him that we can be charitable, temperate and all the other virtues. But we should make no mistake. That does not mean that our being charitable, temperate and all is the way through which one is saved. The Christian must be careful not to be misled into thinking that such as is charity for example is that which saves us or is the way to salvation. The good change that happens in the Christian is not something that he or she had caused in and of himself/herself, but is the work of God in them. The Christian should always remember that they are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, and that it is God who works in the Christian both to will and to do for His good pleasure. And rightfully so then, the glory in all of that is God's.

I do not disagree with anything you said, still, scripture doesn’t find fault with such expressions as, “if you would enter life, keep the commandments,” (Matthew 19:17) or that by loving his neighbor one can inherit eternal life (Luke 10:25-28) or that dedicating your life in the service of God (Luke 18:29-30) does the same. So I do not think it’s a mistake to say 'through charity the rich are saved,' ommitting the assumption of also having true faith and relying on God's Grace.

 

[amadeus]

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Christian salvation is not only deliverance from the penalty of sin;

it is deliverance from the inevitability of sin.

A person who has met the Lord and received the Holy Spirit into himself then has the power of God within him to overcome anything that stands between the person and God. The person still has the authority within himself to say, no, to God and to go his own way... which is into sin. While it is a foolish way to choose, everyone who has ever disobeyed God has been foolish. Men have always been beasts. It is those beasts with their foolish ways that need to be overcome and killed.

The salvation that Christ brings is deliverance from the evil that is present in each individual who follows him. The man or woman who follows him confesses himself or herself to be a sinner, while at the same time, mourning to be set free from sin, confident that whatever he prays according to God's will, God will give him or her whatever they ask.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If we bury them in the ground of our concern for the things of the flesh, He will eventually take them away from us (Matthew 25:28), this is the part we/it fails.

at what point in the parable did it die, or go in the ground? There is the verse that a seed has to go in the ground and die otherwise it abides alone and bears no fruit.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Luke 19:20-23 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: [21] For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. [22] And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: [23] Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

what happened to there is no more condemnation to those in Christ, who walk in newness of Life?

‘buried with him’
John 20:7-9 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. [8] Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. [9] For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
newness of Life...Where there is no more condemnation.