Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

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Michiah-Imla

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We're not qualified judges of ourselves

[sigh]

“Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?” (1 Corinthians 6:3-5)
 

marks

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[sigh]

“Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?” (1 Corinthians 6:3-5)
Judge angels . . . judge others . . . but I'm talking about judging yourself.

1 Corinthians 4:1-5 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

To me it seems fairly obvious how we can see sins in others that we don't see in ourselves.

Much love!
 

Michiah-Imla

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To me it seems fairly obvious how we can see sins in others that we don't see in ourselves.

We must do this first:

“…cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.” (Matthew 7:5)

“Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.” (1 Timothy 4:16)
 
J

Johann

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"But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:" 1 Cor. 1:30

Look what you get instantly by entering into Christ...

wisdom: knowing the Lord puts everything in its rightful perspective.

righteousness: In Him we walk as He walked...at the level of the righteousness of God. There is NO sin in God's righteousness. His righteousness is NOT as filthy rags.

sanctification: We can only be holy by entering into He that is already holy. Jesus Christ IS our holiness when we enter INTO Him. We will NEVER be more holy than when we abide in Christ. To think that we can increase in sanctification beyond abiding in Christ is anathema.

redemption: We are redeemed from this world of sin into the heavenly walk in God's eternal light by abiding in Christ.

Notice it doesn't say maturity or the full stature of Christ. That kind of salvation must be worked out with fear and trembling.
Did you know there are 5 views on sanctification?


While definitive sanctification is a once-for-all act of God in breaking the bondage of sin in believers’ lives, progressive sanctification is the ongoing work of God’s grace whereby the Holy Spirit enables the regenerate to put sin to death more and more in their lives. The Westminster Shorter Catechism offers the following succinct definition of progressive sanctification: “Sanctification is the work of God's free grace, whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God, and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness” (Q&A 34). The goal of progressive sanctification is conformity to the image of Jesus Christ.

When the Holy Spirit unites a sinner to Christ, He begins the progress of renewing the whole person. Because sin has affected every part of fallen mankind, sanctification affects renewal throughout the whole person. The New Testament especially highlights the fruit of the Spirit in the Christian life.
In His Upper Room Discourse, Jesus spoke of imparting to His disciples His love (John 15:9–10), His joy (John 15:11; 17:13), and His peace (John 14:27). The fruit of the Spirit is the fruit of Christ being formed in the lives of His people by the Holy Spirit.

In justification, adoption, and definitive sanctification, God is the only acting agent.

In progressive sanctification, believers have a role to play, though their actions are motivated and sustained by the work of God in them.

As the Apostle Paul told the Philippians to “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Phil. 2:12–13). Believers are called by God to put sin to death in their lives by the power of the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:13; 13:12; Col. 3:9). The Holy Spirit is the agent of sanctification as He works in believers to make them willing and ready to put sin to death in their lives.

The Spirit of God works through God’s appointed means for the sanctification of His people. The central means of sanctification are the Word of God, the sacraments, and prayer. However, God has also appointed fellowship and church discipline to be means of grace and holiness. Believers are conformed to the image of Christ as they give themselves to a due use of the means of grace. The more believers pursue sanctified living by the power of the Spirit through the means of grace, the more they will delight in God and His goodness.

Progressive sanctification is an ongoing work of God’s grace because no believer will attain sinless perfection in this life. Recognizing the reality of indwelling sin and the war within between the flesh and the Spirit is vital to the engagement of this work of mortification. Spiritual warfare against the flesh is rooted in the fact that Christ has already overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil. In the nineteenth century—as in the early church—various forms of perfectionism began to take root in evangelical circles. The Princeton theologian B.B. Warfield wrote a significant refutation of perfectionism.

At the consummation, when Christ comes again, believers will be made perfect in holiness. For all eternity, those whom Christ has redeemed will dwell in the presence of God without any sinful imperfection. The Holy Spirit will secure them in perfect holiness, from which they will never be able to fall into sin. In the new heavens and new earth, believers will dwell together in unblemished holiness for all eternity.

Quotes
It is by virtue of our having died with Christ and our being raised with him in his resurrection from the dead that the decisive breach with sin in its power, control, and defilement had been wrought, and that the reason for this is that Christ in his death and resurrection broke the power of sin, triumphed over the god of this world, the prince of darkness, executed judgment upon the world and its ruler, and by that victory delivered all those who were united to him from the power of darkness and translated them into his own kingdom. So intimate is the union between Christ and his people that they were partakers with him in all these triumphal achievements and therefore died to sin, rose with Christ in the power of his resurrection, and have the fruit unto holiness and the end everlasting life. As the death and resurrection are central in the whole process of redemptive accomplishment, so is it central in that by which sanctification itself is wrought in the hearts and lives of God’s people.
Sanctification - Ligonier Ministries
 
J

Johann

Guest
Did you know there are 5 views on sanctification?


While definitive sanctification is a once-for-all act of God in breaking the bondage of sin in believers’ lives, progressive sanctification is the ongoing work of God’s grace whereby the Holy Spirit enables the regenerate to put sin to death more and more in their lives. The Westminster Shorter Catechism offers the following succinct definition of progressive sanctification: “Sanctification is the work of God's free grace, whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God, and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness” (Q&A 34). The goal of progressive sanctification is conformity to the image of Jesus Christ.

When the Holy Spirit unites a sinner to Christ, He begins the progress of renewing the whole person. Because sin has affected every part of fallen mankind, sanctification affects renewal throughout the whole person. The New Testament especially highlights the fruit of the Spirit in the Christian life.
In His Upper Room Discourse, Jesus spoke of imparting to His disciples His love (John 15:9–10), His joy (John 15:11; 17:13), and His peace (John 14:27). The fruit of the Spirit is the fruit of Christ being formed in the lives of His people by the Holy Spirit.

In justification, adoption, and definitive sanctification, God is the only acting agent.

In progressive sanctification, believers have a role to play, though their actions are motivated and sustained by the work of God in them.

As the Apostle Paul told the Philippians to “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Phil. 2:12–13). Believers are called by God to put sin to death in their lives by the power of the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:13; 13:12; Col. 3:9). The Holy Spirit is the agent of sanctification as He works in believers to make them willing and ready to put sin to death in their lives.

The Spirit of God works through God’s appointed means for the sanctification of His people. The central means of sanctification are the Word of God, the sacraments, and prayer. However, God has also appointed fellowship and church discipline to be means of grace and holiness. Believers are conformed to the image of Christ as they give themselves to a due use of the means of grace. The more believers pursue sanctified living by the power of the Spirit through the means of grace, the more they will delight in God and His goodness.

Progressive sanctification is an ongoing work of God’s grace because no believer will attain sinless perfection in this life. Recognizing the reality of indwelling sin and the war within between the flesh and the Spirit is vital to the engagement of this work of mortification. Spiritual warfare against the flesh is rooted in the fact that Christ has already overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil. In the nineteenth century—as in the early church—various forms of perfectionism began to take root in evangelical circles. The Princeton theologian B.B. Warfield wrote a significant refutation of perfectionism.

At the consummation, when Christ comes again, believers will be made perfect in holiness. For all eternity, those whom Christ has redeemed will dwell in the presence of God without any sinful imperfection. The Holy Spirit will secure them in perfect holiness, from which they will never be able to fall into sin. In the new heavens and new earth, believers will dwell together in unblemished holiness for all eternity.

Quotes
It is by virtue of our having died with Christ and our being raised with him in his resurrection from the dead that the decisive breach with sin in its power, control, and defilement had been wrought, and that the reason for this is that Christ in his death and resurrection broke the power of sin, triumphed over the god of this world, the prince of darkness, executed judgment upon the world and its ruler, and by that victory delivered all those who were united to him from the power of darkness and translated them into his own kingdom. So intimate is the union between Christ and his people that they were partakers with him in all these triumphal achievements and therefore died to sin, rose with Christ in the power of his resurrection, and have the fruit unto holiness and the end everlasting life. As the death and resurrection are central in the whole process of redemptive accomplishment, so is it central in that by which sanctification itself is wrought in the hearts and lives of God’s people.
Sanctification - Ligonier Ministries
 

Jane_Doe22

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Many Christians who are even worldly or new to the faith know that the JW's, and Mormons, etcetera are not saved. The issue comes down to knowing about the right Scripture verses.

God reveals Himself as triune or as a Trinity.
The King James Bible uses the word Godhead (Meaning Trinity).

1 John 5:7 (KJB) says “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”​

They don't believe that verse; Nor do they believe the three occurrences of the word Godhead means Trinity (Which fits the context). Jesus is GOD, and they deny this obvious fact in Scripture. They deny the personhood and deity of the Holy Spirit, as well. The Bible makes it clear you cannot worship false gods. To not worship the Trinity or the Godhead as revealed in Scripture is to worship a false god of one's own imagining. They also deny the bodily resurrection. Read 1 Corinthians 15 again. You cannot deny the bodily resurrection and be saved according to this chapter.



Yes, the RCC (Roman Catholic Church) has many errors. So does the JW church. Really. Just Google the false beliefs of JW's and read about 25 to 30 articles or so why Christians regard them as non-Christian. They don't worship the same God as Christians do. Christians believe in the Trinity. JW's don't believe in the Trinity. JW's deny bodily resurrection. So these are not small or light matters that they are rejecting. Do you have a friend or family member who is JW? If so, you should not let personal feelings overrule what the Bible says on this matter, sister. It's clearly obvious JW's are not Christian. This shouldn't really be even debatable unless you believe those who reject of the Trinity and the bodily resurrection are saved. If so... you need some solid biblical evidence to prove your case.
A person is saved by Christ, not their ability to pass your theology test.
JW have some majorly messed up theology, including the denial of Christ’s divinity, but the love of God and Christ are still there. To deny that live and faith serves no one.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Judge angels . . . judge others . . . but I'm talking about judging yourself.

Yes, you’re right.

“For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 4:4-5)

I judge according to the truth of the scripture having pulled the beam out of my eye. But I have yet to encounter anyone who is unleavened who uses the Bible alone to correct me. They all bring in some long winded theological speech sprinkled with original language “revelations”. Others with outright recommendations to listen to a false teachers!
 
J

Johann

Guest
The Princeton theologian B.B. Warfield wrote a significant refutation of perfectionism.

At the consummation, when Christ comes again, believers will be made perfect in holiness. For all eternity, those whom Christ has redeemed will dwell in the presence of God without any sinful imperfection. The Holy Spirit will secure them in perfect holiness, from which they will never be able to fall into sin. In the new heavens and new earth, believers will dwell together in unblemished holiness for all eternity.

Believe what you will, sanctification is both instantaneous/Perfect Tense and progressive as we are growing...a process...no room for instant perfection in this life...

Eph_4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:...progressive...

Php_3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Do you see it?

Or am already made perfect (ē ēdē teteleiōmai). Perfect passive indicative (state of completion) of teleioō, old verb from teleios and that from telos (end).

Paul pointedly denies that he has reached a spiritual impasse of non- development.

Certainly he knew nothing of so-called sudden absolute perfection by any single experience. Paul has made great progress in Christlikeness, but the goal is still before him, not behind him.

Five different interpretations on sanctification, I will cling to that which I know and have been known by God through Christ Jesus.

J.
 

marks

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We must do this first:

“…cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.” (Matthew 7:5)

“Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.” (1 Timothy 4:16)


So what are you saying here?

You are a competent judge of yourself, while Paul was not?

Much love!
 
J

Johann

Guest
"But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:" 1 Cor. 1:30

Look what you get instantly by entering into Christ...

wisdom: knowing the Lord puts everything in its rightful perspective.

righteousness: In Him we walk as He walked...at the level of the righteousness of God. There is NO sin in God's righteousness. His righteousness is NOT as filthy rags.

sanctification: We can only be holy by entering into He that is already holy. Jesus Christ IS our holiness when we enter INTO Him. We will NEVER be more holy than when we abide in Christ. To think that we can increase in sanctification beyond abiding in Christ is anathema.

redemption: We are redeemed from this world of sin into the heavenly walk in God's eternal light by abiding in Christ.

Notice it doesn't say maturity or the full stature of Christ. That kind of salvation must be worked out with fear and trembling.
How quickly you edited your post to add this important scripture, progressive sanctification...there are a lot of Imperatives we must do our whole life brother
 

Episkopos

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How quickly you edited your post to add this important scripture, progressive sanctification...there are a lot of Imperatives we must do our whole life brother

Where do you see progressive? When you enter into Christ you get instant sanctification. If you are interested in holiness...seek the Lord.
 
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J

Johann

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OK then. You have surpassed the Apostle.

Much love!
[sigh]

“Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?” (1 Corinthians 6:3-5)
Are you wise in your own esteem?
J.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Where do you progressive? When you enter into Christ you get instant sanctification. If you are interested in holiness...seek the Lord.
I’ve not been following this thread until the last few minutes.

Could you define specificly what you mean when you say “sanctification”? In your own words please.
 
J

Johann

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Where do you progressive? When you enter into Christ you get instant sanctification. If you are interested in holiness...seek the Lord.
I have already adequately answered your questions. With Scriptures and even @marks can see the loop holes, the web you guys are spinning.

Problem is you do not read what have been posted, scriptural, sound exegesis on sanctification. Instantaneous, yes, progressive, yes.
J.
 
J

Johann

Guest
[sigh]

“Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?” (1 Corinthians 6:3-5)
You know what a double negative is in Greek?


I say this to move you to shame (pros entropēn humin legō). Old word entropē from entrepō, to turn in (1Co_4:14 which see). In N.T. only here and 1Co_15:34.
One wise man (sophos). From sarcasm to pathos Paul turns.
Does there not exist (eni, short form for enesti)? With double negative ouk̇̇oudeis, expecting the answer yes.

...and there are still not existing any wise men

Surely one such man exists in the church.
Who (hos). Almost consecutive in idea, of such wisdom that he will be able.
To decide between his brethren (diakrinai ana meson tou adelphou autou). Krinai is to judge or decide (first aorist active infinitive of krinō and dia (two) carries on the idea of between.

Then ana meson makes it still plainer, in the midst as arbitrator between brother and brother like ana meson emou kai sou (Gen_23:15). It is even so a condensed expression with part of it unexpressed (ana meson kai tou adelphou autou) between brother and his brother. The use of adelphos has a sharp reflection on them for their going to heathen judges to settle disputes between brothers in Christ.
Robertson
No wise men in the Corinth ekklesia.
J.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Peter was speaking of the terms of the parable given by Jesus, wherein such a person, having [only] been swept clean had not yet attained salvation and therefore could end up worse off for not receiving what was good that they should be filled with Christ rather than left open to the devil.

"Swept clean"? That is talking about casting out a demon, but if those demons come back and find the Spirit is not there keeping them out, they will bring back 7 more powerful than the first. It is not about a born again Christian being demon possessed, an impossibility. The demon possessed can be cleansed of that demon, but unless they gone under discipleship and become a Christian filled with the Spirit they are leaving themselves wide-open for more havoc.

Scott, read it again. You are superimposing other meanings to it than the truth. I'm sure when you read it again in context you'll see it.
 

ScottA

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"Swept clean"? That is talking about casting out a demon, but if those demons come back and find the Spirit is not there keeping them out, they will bring back 7 more powerful than the first. It is not about a born again Christian being demon possessed, an impossibility.
No...the parable is indeed about salvation, about repenting of sins only to return to them as a dog to his vomit, giving Satan all the more reign.